More on the Harvey Trade

[George O'Brien]

Trading in the NBA is like tacking a sailboat into the wind. Often it seems like the team is reversing course when all that is happening is that the team is tacking. Here is the history of the moves related to the Cliff Robinson trade in 2001.

The Suns sent Robinson to the Pistons for Jud Buechler and John Wallace (both of whom had only a year left on their contracts).

Buechler was traded to Orlando for Bo Outlaw and a return of the draft pick owed by the Suns in the Hardaway deal. Since the Suns did not owe that pick when they were in the lottery, it was used to draft Zarko Cabarkapa the following year.

Bo Outlaw and Jake Tsakalidis were traded to Memphis for Brevin Knight, Robert Archibald, and Cecary Trybanski.

Brevin Knight was traded to the Wizzards for Jahidi White.

Robert Archibald is traded to Orlando for Donnell Harvey.

Net result:

Suns gave up 38 year old Robinson, Jake Tsakalidis and a second round pick.

The Suns have picked up Zarko Cabarkapa, Jahidi White, Donnell Harvey, and Cecary Trybanski.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Yup, not a bad line of trades if you ask me.

I think we will see something similar in Memphis soon. Jerry West is just stacking talent, and will most likely be able to land an all star with it.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

My personal favorite is the Mavericks

Juwan Howard for Nick Van Exel and Raef Lafrentz

Van Exel to GS for Welsh, Jamison, Mills

Mills, Welsh and Lafrentz to Boston for Walker and Delk



They magically turned Juwan Howard into Antoine Walker, Antawn Jamison and Tony Delk.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

i'm not sure that's exactly how the trading went. i'm fairly certain that we landed amare with the pick we acquired from orlando. there were more than a few articles that contemplated amare in orlando were it not for the trade and i think even doc rivers was asked about it. which, in the end, makes the trades look even better.

 

[hcsilla]

Originally posted by thegrahamcrackr
My personal favorite is the Mavericks

Juwan Howard for Nick Van Exel and Raef Lafrentz

Van Exel to GS for Welsh, Jamison, Mills

Mills, Welsh and Lafrentz to Boston for Walker and Delk



They magically turned Juwan Howard into Antoine Walker, Antawn Jamison and Tony Delk.

And now after that magic they aren't better than they were before.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Amare was not included. It would have been Casey Jacobson most likely.

A team can not give up consecutive first round picks. We didn't have one in 2001, so we were guaranteed our pick in 2002. However, after the Boston trade (which happened after the Orlando one I think), the #22 pick could have been transferred I believe. However, if they decided not to take that pick, they would have recieved the #17 this past draft which would have been Zarko.

Amare's pick was always the suns, the media just didn't realize the trade rules. I actually emailed Bob Young about it after he wrote an article saying we got Amare through that pick. He printed a retraction of sorts about 2 weeks later (It was just in the notes section).

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Originally posted by hcsilla
And now after that magic they aren't better than they were before.

LOL, touche.


It still is an impressive swap though! It will be interesting if they use 'Toine or 'Twan to land a big man. I don't think Z would work out well in Dallas, and I am not to sure there are many other people they can land right now.

 

[Joe Mama]

Originally posted by George O'Brien

The Suns sent Robinson to the Pistons for Jud Buechler and John Wallace (both of whom had only a year left on their contracts).

Buechler was traded to Orlando for Bo Outlaw and a return of the draft pick owed by the Suns in the Hardaway deal. Since the Suns did not owe that pick when they were in the lottery, it was used to draft Zarko Cabarkapa the following year.

Actually Buechler's contract did not expire until after the next season like Robinson's. I've always thought that they would have been much better trading Cliff Robinson directly to Orlando for Bo Outlaw and more. I thought the magic might have been willing to throw in another draft pick or something. But that may be nitpicking.

Joe Mama

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Originally posted by thegrahamcrackr
Amare was not included. It would have been Casey Jacobson most likely.

A team can not give up consecutive first round picks. We didn't have one in 2001, so we were guaranteed our pick in 2002. However, after the Boston trade (which happened after the Orlando one I think), the #22 pick could have been transferred I believe. However, if they decided not to take that pick, they would have recieved the #17 this past draft which would have been Zarko.

Amare's pick was always the suns, the media just didn't realize the trade rules. I actually emailed Bob Young about it after he wrote an article saying we got Amare through that pick. He printed a retraction of sorts about 2 weeks later (It was just in the notes section).

thanks for the headsup. guess i had bought into the media portrayal.

 

[hcsilla]

Originally posted by thegrahamcrackr
I don't think Z would work out well in Dallas, and I am not to sure there are many other people they can land right now.

I agree.

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by thegrahamcrackr
I don't think Z would work out well in Dallas, and I am not to sure there are many other people they can land right now.

Who is Z?

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Zyndrunas (whatever) Illgauskas

I dont think I have butchered a spelling of a name that bad before.

 

[Billythekid]

Is Z on the move?

I thought one of the reasons Clev shipped Davis was not only because he clashed with Silas but also with Z.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

He is "not being shopped" according to the Cavs. However many different papers/sites have said that after talking to different execs, he is available. They will not just give him away however. If Cuban offered Jamison for Z (plus fillers if need be) the thought is that they would take it.

They are worried about his lack of defensive ability, which is something Silas wants out of his big men. Supposedly that is the same reason the Mavs haven't pulled the trigger. They would rather have a defensive threat instead of an offensive juggernaut. Plus everyone is worried about injuries.

Z is a much better contract though. His deal expires after next year I think. That means little to the Mavs, but just thinking to myself, maybe Eddie Jones for Z would work for both teams.

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by Billythekid
Is Z on the move?

I thought one of the reasons Clev shipped Davis was not only because he clashed with Silas but also with Z.

Could be.

Zydrunas Ilgauskas was on the all star team and puts up decent numbers: 15.5 ppg, 7.6 rpg, 50.3% shooting (50% for 3's), and 71% for free thows. At 7'3" he is certainly a presence although he has a repuation for being soft on defense. His big problem is a history of injuries. For example, he only played 5 games in 98-99, 24 games in 00-01, and 62 in 02-03. Last year was the first year since he was a rookie that he played in 81 games.

I cannot see the Cavs giving him up without getting a power player in return. It only happens if Diop gets healthy and becomes an NBA player.

 

[hcsilla]

Originally posted by thegrahamcrackr
maybe Eddie Jones for Z would work for both teams.

I doubt that the Cavs would do this deal even with Caron Butler included.

Ilgauskas is a more valuable player than Jones, he is younger and his contract is much better.
I'm not sure that Butler is compensating these disadvantages for CLE.

I do think that would be a no-brainer deal for MIA.

 

[Joe Mama]

Originally posted by thegrahamcrackr
He is "not being shopped" according to the Cavs. However many different papers/sites have said that after talking to different execs, he is available. They will not just give him away however. If Cuban offered Jamison for Z (plus fillers if need be) the thought is that they would take it.

They are worried about his lack of defensive ability, which is something Silas wants out of his big men. Supposedly that is the same reason the Mavs haven't pulled the trigger. They would rather have a defensive threat instead of an offensive juggernaut. Plus everyone is worried about injuries.

Z is a much better contract though. His deal expires after next year I think. That means little to the Mavs, but just thinking to myself, maybe Eddie Jones for Z would work for both teams.

If Cleveland would be willing to trade Z because he is a defensive liability I'm not sure they would want anybody from the Mavericks in return, especially Jamison. As far as I can see Jamison still has a negative trait value because of that huge contract.

Joe Mama

 

[Chaplin]

This apparently has been confirmed by Gabriel, so Archibald might be going somewhere else... ??

Magic deal Harvey to Suns for second-round pick
Dec. 23, 2003
SportsLine.com wire reports

Orlando, FL -- The Orlando Magic on Tuesday sent forward Donnell Harvey to the Phoenix Suns for a 2004 second-round draft pick.

Orlando general manager John Gabriel made the announcement.

Harvey averaged 4.1 points and three rebounds for Orlando in 24 games this season. He signed with the Magic as a free agent on Sept. 23. Under NBA rules, he cannot be traded for three months after that date.

Harvey has appeared in 166 career games with Dallas, Denver and the Magic. He has lifetime averages of 6.0 points and 4.4 rebounds per contest.

Meanwhile, the Suns are without Amare Stoudemire because of a sprained ankle, while rookie forward Zarko Cabarkapa is sidelined with a broken wrist.

 

[Chaplin]

Archibald on Injured List

Phoenix Places Robert Archibald on Injured List
Suns Acquire Donnell Harvey from Orlando


Posted: Dec. 23, 2003

The Phoenix Suns completed a trade today for Orlando Magic forward Donnell Harvey in exchange for a 2004 second-round draft pick. To make room for Harvey, who is expected to be in uniform for tonight’s game at Seattle, the Suns placed forward Robert Archibald on the injured list with the flu.

“Donnell Harvey should bring us energy, toughness, defense and rebounding while we weather injuries to both Zarko Cabarkapa and Amaré Stoudemire,” said Suns President and General Manager Bryan Colangelo.”

Harvey, 23, has played in 166 games (32 starts) during his NBA career with Orlando, Denver and Dallas, averaging 6.0 points, 4.4 rebounds, 0.49 steals, 0.38 blocks on .457 shooting from the field. In 2002-03, the 6-8, 220-pound forward averaged career-best totals of 7.9 points, 5.3 rebounds and 1.3 assists in 20.9 minutes in 77 games with the Nuggets. In his 27 starts, he averaged 8.8 rebounds and 5.7 rebounds.

After signing as a free agent on Sept. 23, 2003 with the Magic, Harvey averaged 4.1 points, 3.0 rebounds and shot. 404 from the field in 24 games (1 start) this season. During one four-game stretch from Nov. 21-28 when Harvey averaged 27.8 minutes per game, he posted 12.3 points, 6.8 rebounds on 20-35 shooting (.571). In a span of two games, he recorded season highs of nine rebounds vs. the Pacers on Nov. 24 and 16 points (8-10 FG) vs. the Celtics on Nov. 26.

The early entry candidate was originally selected in the first round (22nd overall) of the 2000 NBA Draft by New York after one season at the University of Florida.

Archibald was placed on the injured list for the second time this season. The 6-11 forward, who was acquired on Sept. 30 in a trade with Memphis, has played in one game this season at Miami on Dec. 9 and missed the first 14 games after opening the season on the injured list (sprained toe, left foot).

 

[Chaz]

Wow, only 23. Possibly another young piece to build on.
And for a second round pick, I like it. I hope he works out.

Looking forward to seeing him play tonight.

 

[Chaplin]

So how about Trybanski and Archibald to Toronto for Menk Bateer and Morris Peterson?

 

[sunsfn]

I am wondering about a number of things with this trade.

1) The trade must have changed with Archibald staying instead of being in the trade.

2) This has to have something to do with the trade exception being used, right?

3) If Harvey is a good player, how come he could not find any playing time on a bad team like the Magic?

4) Will there be a trade with Toronto now for Archibald?

 

[Chaplin]

Apparently, and this is a bit scary, Harvey has not been going through his conditioning enough, and had soured with the Magic organization.

Which is strange, because as soon as maybe 4 days ago, the Magic were considering starting him at the Small Forward position.

 

[George O'Brien]

The Magic found that it did not work to have either Juwan Howard or Drew Gooden at SF, which meant that they are both only playing PF. This did not leave any minutes for Donnell.

Donnell is not a strong enough offensive player to be a small forward, so he was the odd man out.

 

[JerkFace]

i just hope archibald's toe heals