most underated QB of all-time

[moklerman]

Brady and Montana where system QB's surrounded by great teams.

Steve Young was one of the most gifted QB's to ever take the field. Just because something is older doesn't make it better.

Seeing these two statements back-to-back is a sight to behold.

Montana wasn't the beneficiary of a new and unique system that took the league by storm a la the GSOT or the run & shoot, etc. Montana helped build that team into the juggernaut that it became. Young wasn't crap before he got to SF and he inherited a top 3 defense to go along with one of the greatest offenses of all time.

When the 49ers were faced with the decision to go with DeBerg or Montana they went with Montana. When the Buccaneers were faced with the choice of Young or DeBerg, they went with DeBerg. And before you laugh that one off, look at what DeBerg did the year after what Young did in Tampa Bay. The 49ers would have been saved a lot of gried if they had just kept DeBerg and Montana and probably been just as well off.

For the Niners, I thought Montana was an important piece of the pie, but not THE peice. The will of the team went through Jerry Rice, and Ronnie Lott IMO.

I absolutely hated the 49ers(I can never live down 17 straight vs the Rams) but there is no question that it was Joe's team when he was healthy. The team's success started and was built around him.

 

[IAWarnerFan]

Fair enough.

As I said there is no denying they are both good QB's, I just think their teams gave them a lot of support. Thus why when I talk about QB's ability and talent the wins count for something but not everything.

For the Niners, I thought Montana was an important piece of the pie, but not THE peice. The will of the team went through Jerry Rice, and Ronnie Lott IMO.

Agree to a point. It takes a lot more than just a QB to have any success at this level. Jerry Rice and Ronnie Lott may have been the best at their positions, but it took the whole team to accomplish what the accomplished in the 80s and 90s. So my strong disagreement is with the term "the piece" and all of them were very important to the success of that franchise.

 

[SeattleCard]

J McCown

 

[Ronin]

I absolutely hated the 49ers(I can never live down 17 straight vs the Rams) but there is no question that it was Joe's team when he was healthy. The team's success started and was built around him.

Huh? are you a Rams fan also....if so do you remember the Eddie Kennison and Ken Norton Jr Feud?

 

[Buckybird]

J McCown

I would rather have had Steve Pisarkiewicz. LOL

 

[Duckjake]

I would rather have had Steve Pisarkiewicz. LOL

Hey now McCown won 4 games with the worst group of players ever to take the field for a non-expansion NFL team.

 

[IAWarnerFan]

Jim Druckenmiller.

 

[Buckybird]

Hey now McCown won 4 games with the worst group of players ever to take the field for a non-expansion NFL team.

and he did help us draft Fitz w/his fling against the Vikes. He was worth something.

 

[moklerman]

Huh? are you a Rams fan also....if so do you remember the Eddie Kennison and Ken Norton Jr Feud?

Was a die-hard Rams fan since 1980 but lost a lot of steam for them when they moved in '95. Rekindled things when they finally got rid of Banks and then of course went on a magical mystery tour. Followed Warner over here.

Don't recall the Norton/Kennison deal. I remember Holohan punching the padded goal post one game vs. the 49ers where the Rams could have won that day. All he did was wake the giant so to speak and they once again got killed.

Norton was the one who coined the "SOSAR" wasn't he? I'm guessing the feud stemmed from that but Kennison wasn't exactly Mr. Ram so I'm not sure where he was coming from.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Seeing these two statements back-to-back is a sight to behold.

Montana wasn't the beneficiary of a new and unique system that took the league by storm a la the GSOT or the run & shoot, etc. Montana helped build that team into the juggernaut that it became. Young wasn't crap before he got to SF and he inherited a top 3 defense to go along with one of the greatest offenses of all time.

When the 49ers were faced with the decision to go with DeBerg or Montana they went with Montana. When the Buccaneers were faced with the choice of Young or DeBerg, they went with DeBerg. And before you laugh that one off, look at what DeBerg did the year after what Young did in Tampa Bay. The 49ers would have been saved a lot of gried if they had just kept DeBerg and Montana and probably been just as well off.
I absolutely hated the 49ers(I can never live down 17 straight vs the Rams) but there is no question that it was Joe's team when he was healthy. The team's success started and was built around him.

Fair enough.

I know better than to debate with you about QB's. Your opinion is your opinion, and it is chisled into stone.

 

[moklerman]

I know better than to debate with you about QB's. Your opinion is your opinion, and it is chisled into stone.

I don't think anyone will be swayed into thinking that Montana was a system QB while Young was one of the best ever.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

I don't think anyone will be swayed into thinking that Montana was a system QB while Young was one of the best ever.

Unfortunately, I know plenty that would agree with me on this issue.

But that is your opinion, and I know you will say anything to support it whether true or not. I went through this with you in regards to Warner I know when it is a waste of time to debate.

We would go back and forth for 528 pages, and by the end Montana would be turning water into wine, and Young would be lucky that he could make a pop warner football team.

As I said far enough. You made your point but I certainly don't agree.

If I am starting a team and I have to choose between Young, and Montana. Young every time. I think along the lines of pure talent, and ability. Take the team around them, wins, losses, out of the equation. But whatever. Seriously, I don't really care that much.

 

[moklerman]

Well, I'm sorry you don't feel interested in debating a topic that you have an opinion about. I can illustrate many reasons why Young wasn't better than Montana.

First, Young never succeeded as a pro other than in SF. He was very much a disappointment for the LA Express who paid a ton of money to get him. And while USFL stat's don't mean too much overall, guys like Jim Kelly and Bobby Hebert put up really good numbers in that watered down league and then had success in the NFL. Not only that, Kelly went to a bad Bills team and Hebert to a bad New Orleans team and they helped those teams turn in the right direction.

Young went to Tampa Bay and sucked. He wasn't even average or mediocre. Journeyman Steve DeBerg came in right after Young left and was at least respectable.

Second, Young inherited a juggernaut team and offense. He put up some really good numbers but his teams always underachieved in the post season. Not necessarily Young's fault but if we're comparing Young and Montana, post season success is heavily in Montana's favor. Montana never threw an interception in 4 Super Bowls and has a 95 rating in 23 career playoff games.

If for no other reason, Montana stepped up in close/big games while Young simply did not.

Montana had to deal with changing the culture of losing in SF and find a way to beat the then dominant Rams who had owned the 49ers for years. Young got to play the Rams at one of the lowest points in their history.

There are a few reasons right off the top of my head. I don't think Young could have gone through the growing pains and struggles that the '79 49ers had to deal with and eventually grow into but I'm pretty sure that a young, healthy Montana could have stepped into Young's role '91 and had more than 1 Super Bowl win (vs. Humphries and the Chargers) in the next 8 years to show for it.

Let's not forget, Young and Montana settled this for us on the field back in '94. Montana was at the end of his career, his back a mess, his elbow surgically repaired, 38 years old. Young, 33 years old, 13-3 49ers team, top defense, Jerry Rice, Ricky Watters and Brent Jones all in their prime and in the pro bowl and Montana puts up 2 TD 0 INT to Young's 1 TD 2 INT and the Chiefs beat the Niners.

Montana manned up and showed who was king and Young wilted in his shadow. Old man, broke down Montana was still more of a QB than Young in his prime. On equal terms of health and age? No way in Hades Young comes out on top.

 

[Ronin]

Was a die-hard Rams fan since 1980 but lost a lot of steam for them when they moved in '95. Rekindled things when they finally got rid of Banks and then of course went on a magical mystery tour. Followed Warner over here.

Don't recall the Norton/Kennison deal. I remember Holohan punching the padded goal post one game vs. the 49ers where the Rams could have won that day. All he did was wake the giant so to speak and they once again got killed.

Norton was the one who coined the "SOSAR" wasn't he? I'm guessing the feud stemmed from that but Kennison wasn't exactly Mr. Ram so I'm not sure where he was coming from.

I remember that game....Norton scored twice on interceptions. I thought it was Kenninson that got upset at Norton punching the goal post, my mistake.

edit* It was Kinchen in 1995, I was close....

Not forgetting what Norton, Jr. did, Kinchen decided to land a counter-punch and roughed up the base of the goal post in a fierce flurry of body blows.

http://archive.theburiedlead.com/2006/11/22/ninersrams-week/

 

[Ronin]

Norton was the one who coined the "SOSAR" wasn't he?

It was Dana Stubblefield.

 

[moklerman]

edit* It was Kinchen in 1995, I was close....

Dang, I knew Holohan didn't sound right but that was the first white guy that popped into my head from that era. Damn Kinchen. I always liked his moxy until that game. Stupid, stupid thing for him to do.

 

[Southpaw]

Don't know who is the most under rated but worthy of consideration

1. Len Dawson
2. Bob Griese
3. John Hadl
4. Fran Tarkenton

 

[moklerman]

Off of your list Wallyburger, John Hadl has got to be the more universally underrated. Rarely does one hear the media or fans even mention his name. He might have to move to the front of the pack as my overall choice.

He went to 6 pro-bowls, led the league in TD's twice, was top 5 in TD's 9 times, is 15th all-time in TD's, top 5 in yards per game 6 times, tope 5 in yards per attempt 8 times, etc., was the NFL's man of the year in 1971 and Sporting News' MVP in 1973.

He had his faults but for an all-time great, he never gets mentioned.

Plunkett's gotta be in the conversation too. Many QB's have Trent Dilfer'd a Super Bowl win but Plunkett(and Flores as coach) has two. Stabler only had 1 and is a legend but Plunkett has two and is barely a footnote. He was 8-2 in the playoffs, won the Heisman, won a Super Bowl MVP and was comeback player of the year. People like to talk about Archie Manning as the best QB who never had a good team around him but Plunkett's not far behind on that front. The Pat's and 49ers were awful and Plunkett's career suffered for it.