Move Shaq to the Bench

[nowagimp]

my only problem with the above is DA completely gave up the 2007 SA series by stubbornly refusing to play KT solid minutes in Game 1. Duncan and Parker went nuts in that game, our defense was horrendous and Amare got in early foul trouble because of it. In fact, KT seemed to only come in when Duncan went OUT. I was furious during that game that DA still believed we could beat that team small. We lost that game and it was up hill against a team that owned us. DA's stubborn-ness was a blessing and a curse.

KT was supposed to protect the suns when amare sat down with fouls. That, and the fact that he couldnt go even 28 mins without wheezing and losing his energy on D, is why he was not played at the same time. So after game #1, DA adjusted, but then the suspensions. I find it interesting that "being stubborn for one game" cost the suns the championship. You can say what you want about the decision to use KT as a backup to amare, but the rate at which amare was rung up for fouls against those spurs was scary/phenomenal. ANd without amare or KT on the floor, the spurs would have had a field day on offensive rebounds.

 

[Covert Rain]

KT was supposed to protect the suns when amare sat down with fouls. That, and the fact that he couldnt go even 28 mins without wheezing and losing his energy on D, is why he was not played at the same time.

It's D'Antonis fault that KT didn't get enough playing time prior to that. Kurt had even stated he was ready to go before that. D'Antoni had missed several opportunities to tune Kurt up going into that series and didn't do it. D'Antoni was saying that the team was in a good rythem and didn't want to mess with that. However, at the same time was playing his guys to death. Let's not absolve D'Atoni from mishandling of his players minutes and bench.

 

[nowagimp]

It's D'Antonis fault that KT didn't get enough playing time prior to that. Kurt had even stated he was ready to go before that. D'Antoni had missed several opportunities to tune Kurt up going into that series and didn't do it. D'Antoni was saying that the team was in a good rythem and didn't want to mess with that. However, at the same time was playing his guys to death. Let's not absolve D'Atoni from mishandling of his players minutes and bench.

Playing the post with the big guys at 36 years old is tough. Its not about tuning up, KT was only good for 26-28 minutes regardless of tuning. The guy used alot of energy battling with bigger guys for position down there, and he was an older undersized player.

 

[Cheesebeef]

KT was supposed to protect the suns when amare sat down with fouls. That, and the fact that he couldnt go even 28 mins without wheezing and losing his energy on D, is why he was not played at the same time. So after game #1, DA adjusted, but then the suspensions. I find it interesting that "being stubborn for one game" cost the suns the championship. You can say what you want about the decision to use KT as a backup to amare, but the rate at which amare was rung up for fouls against those spurs was scary/phenomenal.

it shouldn't have taken DA a full game to make the adjustment considering that SA had owned us for three years previous to that game. Giving up Game 1 put us behind the 8 ball where we had to basically be flawless for the rest of the series. That was the height of stupidity and indefensible IMO.

 

[Andrew]

Can this thread just die already?

 

[Covert Rain]

it shouldn't have taken DA a full game to make the adjustment considering that SA had owned us for three years previous to that game. Giving up Game 1 put us behind the 8 ball where we had to basically be flawless for the rest of the series. That was the height of stupidity and indefensible IMO.

I can remember this very forum light up with complaints that D'Antoni didn't know how to make in game adjustments the past 3 seasons in the playoffs. The Kurt thing was only one example and I agree indefensible.

 

[nowagimp]

I can remember this very forum light up with complaints that D'Antoni didn't know how to make in game adjustments the past 3 seasons in the playoffs. The Kurt thing was only one example and I agree indefensible.

Yeah it took Doc rivers 2 games to make his adjustments and they call the celtics champions. He just put house and posey in (for Rondo and perkins) late and went small ball to get the spacing, something porter still doesnt do to get amare free int he lane. You guys are funny, so sure how you would face the spurs, but you havent even coached a high school team to a championship. I suppose its all that fantasy sports "walter middy" mentality.

 

[Covert Rain]

Yeah it took Doc rivers 2 games to make his adjustments and they call the celtics champions. He just put house and posey in (for Rondo and perkins) late and went small ball to get the spacing, something porter still doesnt do to get amare free int he lane. You guys are funny, so sure how you would face the spurs, but you havent even coached a high school team to a championship. I suppose its all that fantasy sports "walter middy" mentality.

Hogwash. He came out with different looks at half time if I recall correctly. In terms of the Suns, D'Antoni would mix up attacks etc...the next game. He rarely changed things up during games. Also, it can't be "walter middy" like when out of D'Antoni's mouth he says things like "we have to make them play our way" versus changing what they do?

 

[Cheesebeef]

Yeah it took Doc rivers 2 games to make his adjustments and they call the celtics champions. He just put house and posey in (for Rondo and perkins) late and went small ball to get the spacing, something porter still doesnt do to get amare free int he lane. You guys are funny, so sure how you would face the spurs, but you havent even coached a high school team to a championship. I suppose its all that fantasy sports "walter middy" mentality.

love the holier than thou attitude. that just adds such luster to the conversation.

I guess since you've never been a GM of a sports franchise, you have business whatsoever saying whether Kerr does a good job or not?

the above is just ridiculous.

I mean, I guess no one should ever criticize a coach unless they've coached before... and for that matter, I guess no one should ever criticize a player unless they've played before. I guess we should just shut this entire board down since the overwhelming majority of, well, EVERYONE doesn't have the type of experience to make these kind of comments.

 

[Bufalay]

love the holier than thou attitude. that just adds such luster to the conversation.

I guess since you've never been a GM of a sports franchise, you have business whatsoever saying whether Kerr does a good job or not?

the above is just ridiculous.

I mean, I guess no one should ever criticize a coach unless they've coached before... and for that matter, I guess no one should ever criticize a player unless they've played before. I guess we should just shut this entire board down since the overwhelming majority of, well, EVERYONE doesn't have the type of experience to make these kind of comments.

Only Bush, Bush, Clinton, Carter and Gore should be able to vote for president.

 

[nowagimp]

love the holier than thou attitude. that just adds such luster to the conversation.

I guess since you've never been a GM of a sports franchise, you have business whatsoever saying whether Kerr does a good job or not?

the above is just ridiculous.

I mean, I guess no one should ever criticize a coach unless they've coached before... and for that matter, I guess no one should ever criticize a player unless they've played before. I guess we should just shut this entire board down since the overwhelming majority of, well, EVERYONE doesn't have the type of experience to make these kind of comments.

Anyone can say that zarko is a bad pick compared with david west after the fact, its obvious to all, dont need to be a great GM to have hindsight, the great GM's need foresight. Its entirely on another level to say you understand better all the chess moves involved in coaching contests, lots of complications there. I think its pretty safe to say KT+ 2 #1's for nothing is a bad decision, dont need to be a genuis to see that. You guys however isolate on aspect of a coaching chess match and think it is the only thing going on.

If DA puts Kt in early and amare gets into foul trouble and the suns get killed on the boards when Kt plays too much and becomes fatigued late int he game you can, and probably will, also then second guessing using KT too early. Second guessing talent evals are much easier with hindsight, and obviously this is what I did. I find it funny that failing to adjust in game #1 made the difference, as before the suspensions, the suns were going home with the homecourt advantage. Its seems you evaluate with a fine and highly uncertain line, with an adjustment in game one being the "key" between winning the losing in that scenario. But many spurs fans also thought POPs was an idiot last year for his moves against the lakers, after all he has done(4 titles).

 

[nowagimp]

Hogwash. He came out with different looks at half time if I recall correctly. In terms of the Suns, D'Antoni would mix up attacks etc...the next game. He rarely changed things up during games. Also, it can't be "walter middy" like when out of D'Antoni's mouth he says things like "we have to make them play our way" versus changing what they do?

You do not recall correctly, Rivers was complemented for his adjustments after the first four games, going to small ball late. this was widely reported and discussed, but apparently you didnt read up on it.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs2008/columns/story?columnist=hollinger_john&page=Rivers-080613

And it was PJ who didnt have the in game adjustments, I guess he is an idiot as well.

 

[nowagimp]

these coaches are continually making adjustments, be it matchups rotations what ever. Rotations get screwed up with foul trouble and then adjustments are in free flow. I just think its alot more complicated than you guys make it out to be. part of this is to try to make your opponent make an adjustment so you can take advantage, its not too dissimilar from chess. Putting you opponent in check or putting one of their pieces in danger often gets a counter. None of these guys are idiots if they last that long, some may be better or have better pieces than others.

 

[Covert Rain]

You do not recall correctly, Rivers was complemented for his adjustments after the first four games, going to small ball late. this was widely reported and discussed, but apparently you didnt read up on it.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs2008/columns/story?columnist=hollinger_john&page=Rivers-080613

And it was PJ who didnt have the in game adjustments, I guess he is an idiot as well.

Um...OK. What about in game 1 where he shifted the defensive matchups and told the guys to stop gambling so much on defense after the first half. I would call that an adjustment. Then in game 4 Doc decided to make an adjust to play small actually in the 3rd quarter (not late). Again in game adjustment. Are you sure you read up on it??

I think that is a very example of making in game adjustments. Not wait until your down a couple games to actually make an adjustment a la D'Antoni. The Celtics were never down in this series for a reason. I give D'Antoni some props for his conviction in his system but there was a reason half this board was complaining about him not mixing things up come playoff time.

 

[nowagimp]

Um...OK. What about in game 1 where he shifted the defensive matchups and told the guys to stop gambling so much on defense after the first half. I would call that an adjustment. Then in game 4 Doc decided to make an adjust to play small actually in the 3rd quarter (not late). Again in game adjustment. Are you sure you read up on it??

I think that is a very example of making in game adjustments. Not wait until your down a couple games to actually make an adjustment a la D'Antoni. The Celtics were never down in this series for a reason. I give D'Antoni some props for his conviction in his system but there was a reason half this board was complaining about him not mixing things up come playoff time.

the "small ball" adjustment that rivers made late in games swung the tide of the series. After that, it was over, as PJ couldnt match up down low without getting burned from the perimeter. That down low matchup is a killer in the NBA, but only works when you can hit the perimeter shots. Eddie House played a pivotal role, that should explain it all. I suspect that if the suns had had a good defensive big house to back up nash and house on D ont he penetration, House would not have been let go. The only suns team that could avoid doubling down low without getting torched was the suspension team. Of course the next season KT was gone with no viable replacment and the suns were going to get killed by every team with a real low post scorer.