Murray's agent apparently broke off contact talks?

[Russ Smith]

You are wrong. Herzog said he didn’t blame the fans for booing him and he had been a problem the entire season. He was by the pitching mound when he started his crap. The umpire warned him between innings and he continued anyway and got tossed. Templeton himself said about 7 people were yelling a him and challenging him. He either ignores it or calls an usher down to have them removed if they were calling him the n word. I have been going to Cardinal games since 1967 and have never heard anything racist yelled at a player. Could 7 people have done this. Of course but he screwed up and did nothing but hurt himself. You also are saying the Cardinals forced him to play injured which is also not true. He was traded because Herzog said the fans would never forgive him. It was the one trade from the rebuild Herzog didn’t want to make because he thought Templeton was the most talented player he had ever seen. They actually got along well for the most part.

I guess you're right he wasn't hurt, the 7 knee surgeries he had on that left knee were made up.

 

[PJ1]

I guess you're right he wasn't hurt, the 7 knee surgeries he had on that left knee were made up.

But continued his career for years after leaving St. Louis. As Whitey said he wouldn’t play in day after night games. Wouldn’t play in Montreal, wouldn’t play in the Astrodome, wouldn’t play in the rain but was fine the other 80 games of the year. Whatever, blame his problems on racism, Herzog, Cardinal fans or whatever else you want. I am done. Sorry again folks for non football posts.

 

[cardncubfan]

Interesting takes on the KM situation.

Warning: Language (In case you don't know McAfee's show)

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[PACardsFan]

I guess you're right he wasn't hurt, the 7 knee surgeries he had on that left knee were made up.

I wasn’t there, and lived in Syracuse, NY when all that went down. I’m a diehard baseball Cardinal fan & that trade initially broke my heart. Templeton was one talented player, but it obviously turned out to be a great trade for the Cardinals. I still rooted for Templeton during his Padres days, but those knee injuries took their toll.

 

[Russ Smith]

But continued his career for years after leaving St. Louis. As Whitey said he wouldn’t play in day after night games. Wouldn’t play in Montreal, wouldn’t play in the Astrodome, wouldn’t play in the rain but was fine the other 80 games of the year. Whatever, blame his problems on racism, Herzog, Cardinal fans or whatever else you want. I am done. Sorry again folks for non football posts.

Because of the turf that was the whole point I made he wanted a contract to protect him because he knew playing on that turf would cut his career short. San Diego had grass.

 

[Russ Smith]

I wasn’t there, and lived in Syracuse, NY when all that went down. I’m a diehard baseball Cardinal fan & that trade initially broke my heart. Templeton was one talented player, but it obviously turned out to be a great trade for the Cardinals. I still rooted for Templeton during his Padres days, but those knee injuries took their toll.

I was 15 when it happened they were playign the Giants it was all over the bay area papers and sports but IIRC the game wasn't televised and we got very limited footage of it because of what he did. Growing up he was my favorite Cardinal in baseball, and Terry Metcalf in football.

Terry of course left over money and issues he had with the fans in St Louis too, that was the one that really clued me in to the business side of sports, guy in the prime of his career jumps to the Canadian Football league because Bidwill Sr wouldn't pay him.

Which is why I brought them up I hope Junior learned from Metcalf and doesn't let the Murray situation blow up into him having to trade him. The Templeton trade worked out great for the Cards in baseball, the Metcalf situation destroyed the Cards in football, it ultimately led to us losing Coryell and having other guys do contract holdouts.

 

[RON_IN_OC]

But continued his career for years after leaving St. Louis. As Whitey said he wouldn’t play in day after night games. Wouldn’t play in Montreal, wouldn’t play in the Astrodome, wouldn’t play in the rain but was fine the other 80 games of the year. Whatever, blame his problems on racism, Herzog, Cardinal fans or whatever else you want. I am done. Sorry again folks for non football posts.

OMG, please take this to another forum.

 

[PJ1]

OMG, please take this to another forum.

OMG, as you can see I stopped.

 

[Russ Smith]

OMG, please take this to another forum.

The original post was entirely related to this situation it was between Harry and I. I apologize for where it went but I think it goes right back to where I was talking about. If the Kyler stuff is going the way some are saying, it can go VERY wrong very quickly. It did with Metcalf in St Louis and it did with Templeton in baseball. As a Cardinal fan I never forgot either of those situations, I hope Kyler doesn't go the same way.

Unless they just don't think Kyler is the guy it makes no sense to drag this out the way they're doing it IMO.

We're going to get weeks or months of leaks from the team, leaks from the agent(we have already had both) trying to make the other side look bad. It's a simple question they have 3 years of experience with him do they think they can win with him or not, if not, they should have already traded him. If they do, they need to resolve the contract situation not tell him wait until summer knowing his roster bonus will complicate things.

 

[Russ Smith]

Interesting takes on the KM situation.

Warning: Language (In case you don't know McAfee's show)

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The guy in the Yankees hat nails it the Cards don't really have a choice.

And the guy with the weird hair points out 6 guys have gotten paid after the 3rd year and they of course mention Baker Mayfield.

I hope he was kidding about 150 million from the A's the actual contract wasn't even close to that and there's no way a small market team like the A's would pony up a huge contract for a 24 year old who hasn't played baseball in like 4 years.

I have to admit I have no clue how much Kyler can make playing video games they seem to be suggesting it was pretty lucrative?

 

[Stout]

The idea that the cards don't have a choice is ludicrous. The video didn't give us anything new and actually distorted the situation. "He can make money at video games and baseball," as if that's going to replace the income he could make in the NFL. As if baseball is even an option for him now. SMH

 

[Russ Smith]

The idea that the cards don't have a choice is ludicrous. The video didn't give us anything new and actually distorted the situation. "He can make money at video games and baseball," as if that's going to replace the income he could make in the NFL. As if baseball is even an option for him now. SMH

If they want to win this year they really don't.

There is no trade option left that guarantees bringing back a QB we can win with this year. Darnold, Hurts, Tua? They all have talent but none of them are good enough that their current teams aren't all interested in replacing them. Of the 3 Tua probably fits our offense the best, he likes to throw the underneath stuff but all teh people who complain about Kyler taking the big shots downfield on 3rd down would pretty quickly grow tired of watching Tua throw for 5 yards on 3rd and 9.

There's no sure thing in the draft.

Murray has flaws but he's already proven you can win NFL games with him as your QB.

The choice the Cards have at this point is make a trade and suck this year, try and force Kyler to play this year with the current contract and hope he actually plays, or give him a new contract. The first 2 aren't really very good options.

 

[Stout]

If they want to win this year they really don't.

There is no trade option left that guarantees bringing back a QB we can win with this year. Darnold, Hurts, Tua? They all have talent but none of them are good enough that their current teams aren't all interested in replacing them. Of the 3 Tua probably fits our offense the best, he likes to throw the underneath stuff but all teh people who complain about Kyler taking the big shots downfield on 3rd down would pretty quickly grow tired of watching Tua throw for 5 yards on 3rd and 9.

There's no sure thing in the draft.

Murray has flaws but he's already proven you can win NFL games with him as your QB.

The choice the Cards have at this point is make a trade and suck this year, try and force Kyler to play this year with the current contract and hope he actually plays, or give him a new contract. The first 2 aren't really very good options.

Do you really think they're setting up to win this year? It feels more like a punt this year to compete next year, which I feel is stupid, but it is what it is. "Forcing him to play this year" is a distortion of actually just having him play on his rookie deal. I like that option.

 

[Russ Smith]

Do you really think they're setting up to win this year? It feels more like a punt this year to compete next year, which I feel is stupid, but it is what it is. "Forcing him to play this year" is a distortion of actually just having him play on his rookie deal. I like that option.

I think we'll win far less games without him. IN our division with the Rams and 49ers no we're not set up to win, if we were in the old NFC East we'd be the favorites.

We're not as good on paper as we were last year but we still have talent. If the idea is get a high enough pick to replace Kyler then yes the best option is to trade him, play McCoy, realize McCoy gets hurt every time he plays games(even last year) and tank the season.

Personally I am not savoring that idea.

 

[Stout]

I think we'll win far less games without him. IN our division with the Rams and 49ers no we're not set up to win, if we were in the old NFC East we'd be the favorites.

We're not as good on paper as we were last year but we still have talent. If the idea is get a high enough pick to replace Kyler then yes the best option is to trade him, play McCoy, realize McCoy gets hurt every time he plays games(even last year) and tank the season.

Personally I am not savoring that idea.

I'm not in favor of trading him. We should have him play on his rookie contract this season. If he sulks, sits out, doesn't play well, etc, we'll have our answer, and we won't have wasted a year, IMO, because it's already going to be a throw-away year. I think it's pretty clear we won't be as good this year regardless, and that Keim is building with an eye toward next year rather than this year already.

 

[Russ Smith]

I'm not in favor of trading him. We should have him play on his rookie contract this season. If he sulks, sits out, doesn't play well, etc, we'll have our answer, and we won't have wasted a year, IMO, because it's already going to be a throw-away year. I think it's pretty clear we won't be as good this year regardless, and that Keim is building with an eye toward next year rather than this year already.

OK play that out. So Kyler sits the year and misses his bonus. So now you obviously have to trade him he's not going to negotiating after that. So the whole league knows you have to trade him which lowers his value. he doesn't have a no trade clause but he already sat out a year if you come up with a team he doesn't want to play for he can just refuse to report. So you have to trade him on his terms which again lowers his value. So you won't get market value for him.

They've had him 3 years they've known what he wanted for weeks now per the agents letter. if they weren't going to give him a new deal, tell them no you're playing on your current contract for us, we're not redoing it. If he says no, trade him when there was a flurry of QB activity and you might have gotten a really good offer.

They already deflated his value if he sits out the year it gets even lower IMO.

 

[kerouac9]

OK play that out. So Kyler sits the year and misses his bonus. So now you obviously have to trade him he's not going to negotiating after that. So the whole league knows you have to trade him which lowers his value. he doesn't have a no trade clause but he already sat out a year if you come up with a team he doesn't want to play for he can just refuse to report. So you have to trade him on his terms which again lowers his value. So you won't get market value for him.

They've had him 3 years they've known what he wanted for weeks now per the agents letter. if they weren't going to give him a new deal, tell them no you're playing on your current contract for us, we're not redoing it. If he says no, trade him when there was a flurry of QB activity and you might have gotten a really good offer.

They already deflated his value if he sits out the year it gets even lower IMO.

To be fair, Russ, if he agrees to an extension its far more likely than not they they just roll that bonus into whatever upfront money he's going to get.

The front office said that they were planning on doing a deal with him this summer. It's mystifying that they can't or won't engage in negotiations until -- when? After the draft? After rookie minicamps?

If you're not going to extend him, then just tell him we want to see another year and let him spin on it.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

OK play that out. So Kyler sits the year and misses his bonus. So now you obviously have to trade him he's not going to negotiating after that. So the whole league knows you have to trade him which lowers his value. he doesn't have a no trade clause but he already sat out a year if you come up with a team he doesn't want to play for he can just refuse to report. So you have to trade him on his terms which again lowers his value. So you won't get market value for him.

They've had him 3 years they've known what he wanted for weeks now per the agents letter. if they weren't going to give him a new deal, tell them no you're playing on your current contract for us, we're not redoing it. If he says no, trade him when there was a flurry of QB activity and you might have gotten a really good offer.

They already deflated his value if he sits out the year it gets even lower IMO.

I don’t think a guy who’s played three years is going to holdout for two years. That’s just not likely. Leveon bell is a tremendous anomaly for a reason. And he’s not going to want to play poorly if he reports as that will hurt his reputation and likely his pocketbook with another team. This is all a big game of chicken.

 

[Stout]

OK play that out. So Kyler sits the year and misses his bonus. So now you obviously have to trade him he's not going to negotiating after that. So the whole league knows you have to trade him which lowers his value. he doesn't have a no trade clause but he already sat out a year if you come up with a team he doesn't want to play for he can just refuse to report. So you have to trade him on his terms which again lowers his value. So you won't get market value for him.

They've had him 3 years they've known what he wanted for weeks now per the agents letter. if they weren't going to give him a new deal, tell them no you're playing on your current contract for us, we're not redoing it. If he says no, trade him when there was a flurry of QB activity and you might have gotten a really good offer.

They already deflated his value if he sits out the year it gets even lower IMO.

Whoa, I'll stop you right there. Your opinion of how it would play out is greatly different from mine. Do you really think KM will sit out the season. Never going to happen, not in a million years. The worst that can happen, IMO, is he misses training camp, comes in just in time to start the season, pouts and whines, and isn't very good. Maybe he gets himself hurt, maybe he goes into meltdown mode again. Whatever. I see that as the worst-case scenario. In that case, you trade him. Most teams will think it's on the Cards, not on Kyler, so his stock won't really suffer. You trade the problem child and get a haul in return.

Best case, for me, is that he goes out there, lights it up, clinches us something, and puts in a good showing in the playoffs to lead us on a run. Then you pay the man.

 

[Stout]

I don’t think a guy who’s played three years is going to holdout for two years. That’s just not likely. Leveon bell is a tremendous anomaly for a reason. And he’s not going to want to play poorly if he reports as that will hurt his reputation and likely his pocketbook with another team. This is all a big game of chicken.

Bingo.

 

[Russ Smith]

To be fair, Russ, if he agrees to an extension its far more likely than not they they just roll that bonus into whatever upfront money he's going to get.

The front office said that they were planning on doing a deal with him this summer. It's mystifying that they can't or won't engage in negotiations until -- when? After the draft? After rookie minicamps?

If you're not going to extend him, then just tell him we want to see another year and let him spin on it.

Right but if he sits out the year as was the premise I responded to, what are the odds he agrees to an extension?

I agree if he misses the deadline but eventually extends, he'll get the bonus somehow. But it does create a deadline they don't really need to have to worry about if they handled it earlier.

 

[Stout]

Right but if he sits out the year as was the premise I responded to, what are the odds he agrees to an extension?

I agree if he misses the deadline but eventually extends, he'll get the bonus somehow. But it does create a deadline they don't really need to have to worry about if they handled it earlier.

Sorry for the confusion, but I never granted he would sit out the year. I granted he would PLAY out the year on his rookie deal.

 

[Russ Smith]

Whoa, I'll stop you right there. Your opinion of how it would play out is greatly different from mine. Do you really think KM will sit out the season. Never going to happen, not in a million years. The worst that can happen, IMO, is he misses training camp, comes in just in time to start the season, pouts and whines, and isn't very good. Maybe he gets himself hurt, maybe he goes into meltdown mode again. Whatever. I see that as the worst-case scenario. In that case, you trade him. Most teams will think it's on the Cards, not on Kyler, so his stock won't really suffer. You trade the problem child and get a haul in return.

Best case, for me, is that he goes out there, lights it up, clinches us something, and puts in a good showing in the playoffs to lead us on a run. Then you pay the man.

Never say never, I'm sure nobody expected his dad to do what he did all those years ago quit baseball after 1 year get sued by the Brewers, win the case and go play college football. I suspect that's why the people that made that video suggest Kyler actually would sit out the year.

I just don't see the upside of saying no you play on your contract, and we're not as good at WR, we havent' upgraded the OL, we lost a RB, we don't have an edge rusher, but we expect you to be brilliant and earn that contract.

 

[Russ Smith]

Sorry for the confusion, but I never granted he would sit out the year. I granted he would PLAY out the year on his rookie deal.

Actually I think I'm the confused one I was talking about the video on the other thread, for some reason I thought you were too but I don't think you were.

 

[DaHilg]

OK play that out. So Kyler sits the year and misses his bonus. So now you obviously have to trade him he's not going to negotiating after that. So the whole league knows you have to trade him which lowers his value. he doesn't have a no trade clause but he already sat out a year if you come up with a team he doesn't want to play for he can just refuse to report. So you have to trade him on his terms which again lowers his value. So you won't get market value for him.

They've had him 3 years they've known what he wanted for weeks now per the agents letter. if they weren't going to give him a new deal, tell them no you're playing on your current contract for us, we're not redoing it. If he says no, trade him when there was a flurry of QB activity and you might have gotten a really good offer.

They already deflated his value if he sits out the year it gets even lower IMO.

This 100%… you’re an ostrich if you think otherwise, the days of forcing QBs to play-out on contract are over. Hell Deshaun was going to sit out on a max contract before his scandal last off season.