My opinion on Amare and Nash

[sunsfan88]

Nah, it was used routinely when he was in LA winning titles.

Steve

Oh my bad.

I guess what I meant to say was that I didn't start using it on 2k til his days in PHX

 

[Lorenzo]

Shaq has always been terrible at the FT but it never stopped him in the finals from getting rings. It's always been the opposite......his overall play has always outweighed anything he did at the FT line.

Wade was a huge reason but again....no Shaq .....no ring. The Heat dominated the paint. There is no way they do that without the big guy. Dallas couldn't do anything in the paint when Shaq was in there.

dude I seriously remember seeing him on the bench for long stretches in those games. and he was on the bench in the 4th qtr in many of the games that dallas lost that went down to the wire. I think mourning hurt dallas every bit as much as shaq did. miami blewout dallas in game 4, but 5 and 6 came down to the wire. game 5 dallas had the lead by one, but wade got to the free throw line with like 3 seconds left and howard blew the mavs last timeout. shaq was on the bench i remember because dampier got an easy dunk to take the lead on the previous play. dwade hit a lot of perimeter shots...moreso than he did in other games in the playoffs(especially games 1 and 2). to me that was the difference. i think he averaged like 38 per game. shaq was not even good enough to be dwade's robin in that series.

 

[Lorenzo]

oh yeah nellie used to hack a shaq all the time. that was way back when the lakers were winning titles.

 

[Covert Rain]

dude I seriously remember seeing him on the bench for long stretches in those games. and he was on the bench in the 4th qtr in many of the games that dallas lost that went down to the wire. I think mourning hurt dallas every bit as much as shaq did. miami blewout dallas in game 4, but 5 and 6 came down to the wire. game 5 dallas had the lead by one, but wade got to the free throw line with like 3 seconds left and howard blew the mavs last timeout. shaq was on the bench i remember because dampier got an easy dunk to take the lead on the previous play. dwade hit a lot of perimeter shots...moreso than he did in other games in the playoffs(especially games 1 and 2). to me that was the difference. i think he averaged like 38 per game. shaq was not even good enough to be dwade's robin in that series.

Then you need to watch the series again. Shaq was extremely efficient in that series. He also embarrassed the Dallas bigs because every time someone tried to move him out of the paint they couldn't. He created several second chance opportunities that Wade and company took advantage of.

In all games, Mourning played 5 min, 20 min, 9 min, 14 min, 4 min and 14 min. His numbers were not good. Seriously, I don't know what your remembering.

 

[Irish]

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In all games, Mourning played 5 min, 20 min, 9 min, 14 min, 4 min and 14 min. His numbers were not good. Seriously, I don't know what your remembering.

Not that it matters, but minutes for backups are a function of the starter's minutes. A slot has 48 minutes, so if the starter plays 36 minutes, the backup can play no more than 12 unless he plays another position. Four and five minute games are out of the ordinary, but matchups can effect how backups are used.

 

[Lorenzo]

Not that it matters, but minutes for backups are a function of the starter's minutes. A slot has 48 minutes, so if the starter plays 36 minutes, the backup can play no more than 12 unless he plays another position. Four and five minute games are out of the ordinary, but matchups can effect how backups are used.

maybe in retrospect shaq's production looks good now. but at that time shaq was still considered to be the best center in the league(other than yao who had doubters as well). at that point shaq's production was disappointing in my eyes. i thought the mavs got the good end of the deal there. it was dwade who's numbers sky rocketed in that series. his perimeter shooting(which to that point was inconsistent) was the difference. he was on fire from everywhere on the court and got to the free throw line late in the game on some tick tack calls. but that's what the great ones do. at that point it was clear that shaq was on his way down and I don't respect the impact he had on that title for miami nearly as much as the impact he had with the lakers when he was producing at such a greater level. I'm not trying to hate on the guy....just saying that he was not all star caliber and dwade was the superstar that carried that team on his back the whole series. something dirk did not do for the mavs as he had done in the playoffs leading up to that point......

 

[Covert Rain]

maybe in retrospect shaq's production looks good now. but at that time shaq was still considered to be the best center in the league(other than yao who had doubters as well). at that point shaq's production was disappointing in my eyes. i thought the mavs got the good end of the deal there. it was dwade who's numbers sky rocketed in that series. his perimeter shooting(which to that point was inconsistent) was the difference. he was on fire from everywhere on the court and got to the free throw line late in the game on some tick tack calls. but that's what the great ones do. at that point it was clear that shaq was on his way down and I don't respect the impact he had on that title for miami nearly as much as the impact he had with the lakers when he was producing at such a greater level. I'm not trying to hate on the guy....just saying that he was not all star caliber and dwade was the superstar that carried that team on his back the whole series. something dirk did not do for the mavs as he had done in the playoffs leading up to that point......

If you look at it from that standpoint how could you? Shaq was not brought to Miami to drop 25+ per night like he did with the Lakers. When he was with the Lakers, his job was to do that because Kobe at that point in his career had the mentality "every shot was a good one" and they needed Shaq to be that guy that commanded the ball and had a big enough presence to even at times command it over Kobe.

Shaq from day one with Miami was there to play second fiddle. I thought he did a great job of that. He still put up bigger numbers then most starting centers. Hell he did that while he was here in Phoenix (top 5). I think people thought Shaq was still one of the best centers in the league and he was IMO. If you look at his efficiency and the little things he did that don't show up on the stat sheet, it was clear he was also one of the best centers in the entire playoffs that year. However, I think it was universally viewed that Shaq was headed on the downside of his career.

 

[Lorenzo]

If you look at it from that standpoint how could you? Shaq was not brought to Miami to drop 25+ per night like he did with the Lakers. When he was with the Lakers, his job was to do that because Kobe at that point in his career had the mentality "every shot was a good one" and they needed Shaq to be that guy that commanded the ball and had a big enough presence to even at times command it over Kobe.

Shaq from day one with Miami was there to play second fiddle. I thought he did a great job of that. He still put up bigger numbers then most starting centers. Hell he did that while he was here in Phoenix (top 5). I think people thought Shaq was still one of the best centers in the league and he was IMO. If you look at his efficiency and the little things he did that don't show up on the stat sheet, it was clear he was also one of the best centers in the entire playoffs that year. However, I think it was universally viewed that Shaq was headed on the downside of his career.

well in some ways yes, but wade was still an up and coming player when shaq got there. initially when shaq was leaving LA his days as a star may have been numbered, but he was a hot target. I know the mavericks wanted him like crazy, but they would not part ways with nowitzki in a trade which is what LA wanted. When he went to miami a lot of people were still wondering whether lakers should have dumped him and that they would regret it. and that first year looked pretty bad for LA like they got the wrong end of the deal, but clearly in the long run it was the right choice.

let's not forget that shaq's first year with miami he was the mvp runner up and was upset when he lost to nash. miami was one game away from playing SA in the finals and probably would have if wade didn't miss game 7 of the ECF. the next year(2006) shaq's production did dip moreso than any of his career at that point. but he played very well in the playoffs and then I thought his play dipped in the finals against dallas. that's what I remember. again when we look at the stats they may not look aweful and they were better than dampier's lol. but he was not up to his standards at that point and to me in those finals dwade went from playing shaq's partner to taking over. I think it was those finals that were the signal that shaq's days as a superstar were over.