My Take On The Draft, WOW vs. POW

[Crazy Canuck]

I don't want to reach either and later round OL's would be fine....but I can promise you that if we don't improve our OL that we will suck beyond belief.

Ok... your promise is on the record.

 

[Doc Cardinal]

Ok... your promise is on the record.

I'll eat more crow than you can imagine.....but if this OL stays like it is now I won't need to.

 

[bg7brd]

right now -- a variety of mocks have Hill going between 20-31.

So in a perfect world, would it be better to trade down into that range and take him? Sure.

However, those mocks are amateur projections. All we know is that the draft wont really go that way.

I ask you: do you really think the NFL evaluation / drafting process is that precise?

Heck -- just go back and look at the "re -drafts" one year later, and you find players moving 10, 15, 25 spots and it making perfect sense -- in hindsight.

I would argue that players 10-31 might all be in the same general band of talent and it comes down to what you are looking for.

I get it. We should draft a guy at 13 who wasn't even on the radar with ANYONE until he "ran really fast at the combine". Going by combine numbers and not tape is where you get in to trouble. Also, there's is a big difference between pick 13 and the 20 to 31 range.

 

[football karma]

I get it. We should draft a guy at 13 who wasn't even on the radar with ANYONE until he "ran really fast at the combine". Going by combine numbers and not tape is where you get in to trouble. Also, there's is a big difference between pick 13 and the 20 to 31 range.

he wasn't on any amateur mock drafter's radar

what makes you think the NFL didn't know about him?

I would argue at this point in the drafting process -- before any NFL team has set its board -- the distinction between #13 and #30 is meaningless. Again -- there is an implied precision in these rankings that just isnt there.

 

[JeffGollin]

Rieff might still be there. Apparently a lot of teams have him rated as a guard after finding out how short his arms are.

Just to clear up a potential growing "urban legend", Reiff's arms measured 33¼ inches. Several of the guys rated near him have arm lengths averaging 34-inches & change (One or two might even have reached 35-inches).

We are talking about arm-length deficits ranging from (whoop-dee-do!) one-inch to (wowie-zowie!) 2-inches.

Conclusion - Not a very big deal.

 

[JeffGollin]

For Jon Martin no doubt. But they should already have a very good idea about him already. He's not physical/nasty from all reports.

Contrary to my initial perception, Martin's write-ups depict him as a better run blocker than pass blocker. Our major problem at LT is pass pro.

 

[bg7brd]

he wasn't on any amateur mock drafter's radar

what makes you think the NFL didn't know about him?

I would argue at this point in the drafting process -- before any NFL team has set its board -- the distinction between #13 and #30 is meaningless. Again -- there is an implied precision in these rankings that just isn't there.

Most decent draft "pundits" are pretty close in where someone is going to go in the top 15 to 20 picks. It may not be in the exact order but those players are usually off the board close to where they're projected. Yes, there are occasions where a player falls or is drafted higher.

 

[Stout]

Having Levi Brown and no offensive line worth a damn doesn't work either.

Let's do stouts plan.....don't draft an OL cause we might F up.....nice plan....you sound like Cardinals management....we're as pleased as punch with our OL so we'll go BPA no matter what....have a nice year if we are stuck with our current OL.

Let's do Doc's plan...draft a position simply because it fills a need. That always works.

Signed,
Wendel Bryant, Tommie Knight, et al.

You don't draft a position JUST because you need a player at that position. That is the definition of stupidity, will get you inferior talent, and is just like Cardinals management used to be. We've done better since we've, well, stopped taking a stupid approach to the draft. IF there's an OT worthy of the pick at 13, there's no reason not to draft him. IMO, there will not be, and it looks like the FO agrees with me. Then again, maybe they don't, and maybe they'll take one anyway. At any rate, especially in the 1st round, we should be picking mostly for BPA, because taking inferior talent because you need to fill a position is just plain stupid.

Basically, you're upset that the Cards have really screwed the OL up and have failed to plan for the future. I agree. You don't fix it by panic drafting, however. That's a way to make it worse, not better.

 

[Doc Cardinal]

Let's do Doc's plan...draft a position simply because it fills a need. That always works.

Signed,
Wendel Bryant, Tommie Knight, et al.

You don't draft a position JUST because you need a player at that position. That is the definition of stupidity, will get you inferior talent, and is just like Cardinals management used to be. We've done better since we've, well, stopped taking a stupid approach to the draft. IF there's an OT worthy of the pick at 13, there's no reason not to draft him. IMO, there will not be, and it looks like the FO agrees with me. Then again, maybe they don't, and maybe they'll take one anyway. At any rate, especially in the 1st round, we should be picking mostly for BPA, because taking inferior talent because you need to fill a position is just plain stupid.

Basically, you're upset that the Cards have really screwed the OL up and have failed to plan for the future. I agree. You don't fix it by panic drafting, however. That's a way to make it worse, not better.

I disagree.....I think there will be an offensive lineman who is worty of the 13th pick....you don't think so so you'll pick some dumbarse....go ahead.....be stupid.

 

[Stout]

I disagree.....I think there will be an offensive lineman who is worty of the 13th pick....you don't think so so you'll pick some dumbarse....go ahead.....be stupid.

LOL I don't agree with you, so I'm stupid. Dumbarse pick? Good one. STUPID is drafting for need. There may be an OT there that's worth the pick and there may not be. I'm not going to call you STUPID because your opinion on player abilities differs from mine. That's why they're OPINIONS.

So tell me, do you think drafting purely for need is a good idea? Seriously?

 

[football karma]

Most decent draft "pundits" are pretty close in where someone is going to go in the top 15 to 20 picks. It may not be in the exact order but those players are usually off the board close to where they're projected. Yes, there are occasions where a player falls or is drafted higher.

we tend to remember the latest mocks pre-draft -- and those done after teams set their boards.

Between now and then, thats where we get all these breathless reports on "Joe Smith is shooting up draft boards!". Well, maybe relative to the press members original ranking, but not on NFL boards.

This is especially true for players who werent expected to be in the draft -- like sophomore eligible Steven Hill. The draft ranking people didnt spend the year following him like they did a Michael Floyd of Notre Dame.

 

[Cardiac]

I don't see them even drafting a WR in any round. Whiz and company are very content with what they have at this position. Especially now that Doucet has been signed.

In all likelihood the first pick will be an Oline player. If they are truly happy with the play of Levi then they will draft for a RT or slide Levi to RT and select a LT. This team has drafted for need in round one for like forever.

2011
1- Patrick Peterson, CB

2010
1 - Dan Williams, DT

2009
1 - Chris Wells, RB

2008
1 - Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie, CB

2007
1 - Levi Brown, T

2006
1 - Matt Leinart, QB

2005
1 - Antrel Rolle, DB

2004
1 - Larry Fitzgerald, WR

2003
1 - Bryant Johnson, WR
1 - Calvin Pace, DE

2002 1 - Wendell Bryant, DT

2001
1 - Leonard Davis, T

2000
1 - Thomas Jones, RB

Every one of these picks except one (Fitz in 2004) were need picks, not PBA. Now some may have been the PBA and a need at the same time however that doesn't dismiss they were still a need.

I am going to use your post and add new category, REACH for need. Those picks are highlighted Red. While Beanie and DRC were need picks there were also very good value picks as well. So I count 4 reach for need picks and the rest were taken close to where they were rated during the predraft process.

 

[Cardiac]

One could argue Rolle was taken where many had him projected.

 

[football karma]

I am going to use your post and add new category, REACH for need. Those picks are highlighted Red. While Beanie and DRC were need picks there were also very good value picks as well. So I count 4 reach for need picks and the rest were taken close to where they were rated during the predraft process.

I would switch Leinart and Rolle

while the Cards had just signed Warner -- he was viewed as a stopgap, a QB of the future was clearly a need at the time

 

[Cardiac]

I would switch Leinart and Rolle

while the Cards had just signed Warner -- he was viewed as a stopgap, a QB of the future was clearly a need at the time

Mayhaps but he wasn't a reach need pick. Just about everyone following the draft had him going before we took him.

 

[Cardiac]

I should have also posted that I am intrigued with your thoughts on WR Hill. I think he very well may be taken much earlier than most project at this time.

 

[oaken1]

Talented corners don't go to the safety position, bad corners do.

Ronnie Lott

 

[Phrazbit]

Ronnie Lott

Yes, and Kurt Warner was a grocery bagger. Maybe the Cards should start scouting Safeway.

I wouldnt really view Lott's once in 30 years situation as a good predictor of returns for other players.

 

[pinetopred]

The way i look at BPA and need, I would list the players, list the needs we have as a team, once the players are ranked and your needs are ranked you draft the BPA based off the needs of your team. So say you rank WR 4th on our list of needs but the #1 best player left is a WR, you draft that guy filling somewhat of a need because he is a better player then the OT at your # 1 position of need who ranks the 5th best player on your board. IMO this is where we used to screw up because we always ranked our needs higher then the player, we need to keep drafting the way we have lately, trust the player rankings more then our needs.