Nash thought

[elindholm]

I know that most of this board isn't too enthusiastic about Nash, and I tend to agree. But if the Suns really want to get him, one pretty good option would be to trade Eisley and cap space to the Mavericks in a sign-and-trade. The Mavericks would use the cap space to sign Daniels, who otherwise they are in danger of losing. And Cuban wouldn't care much about eating the last two years of Eisley's contract, especially since he could actually have some value in grooming Harris and Daniels.

If Nash's new contract were for four years at $8.5 million per (no raises), that would be an overpayment, but not a revolting one, especially if you figure most of the money would be "replacing" Eisley the first two years. And it would give Dallas roughly $2.5 million to get Daniels started.

Of course, this all assumes the Suns don't get Bryant.

Edit: Would the Mavericks get a trade exemption doing this kind of sign-and-trade? I just realized it's a special case that might be prohibited by the CBA.

 

[scotsman13]

the mavs are over the cap. even if they didnt resign nash they would still be over it by a good bit of change. (they have 4 max contract player (25% of cap each)). so while the mavs could take back a lesser salery for a greater one if the team that got the bigger one was under the cap to take the differance, they wouldnt get any advanage out of it (trade exception). i personally believe that it will take something like a 9 million dollar starting deal to get nash.

 

[George O'Brien]

I am not enthusiastic about Nash even if he starts at $6 million. I absolutely hate him at $7 million and would organize a riot at $8 million.

 

[Skkorpion]

I am not enthusiastic about Nash even if he starts at $6 million. I absolutely hate him at $7 million and would organize a riot at $8 million.

And his really bad haircut.

 

[Goldfield]

I for one LOVE Nash's game. He is exactly what this team needs...


But I would much rather use the cap space to bulk up the center position. (C:Thomas, C:Foyle, PF/C: Dice)

That would give us great depth up front and tuffness inside other than Amare.

 

[Joe Mama]

I am not enthusiastic about Nash even if he starts at $6 million. I absolutely hate him at $7 million and would organize a riot at $8 million.

I'm not a big fan of signing Steve Nash, but assuming his deal is about four years in length $6 million would probably be a bargain and $7 million would still be good. I think Steve Nash is a perfect fit offensively. He isn't a very good defender, but I don't think he is as atrocious as some have said. I definitely won't be happy if they sign him for anything over four years, and that contract better not start at anything over $8 million. Even that much really scares me.

Joe Mama

 

[Phill11]

And his really bad haircut.

He gets haircuts?

 

[JCSunsfan]

the mavs are over the cap. even if they didnt resign nash they would still be over it by a good bit of change. (they have 4 max contract player (25% of cap each)). so while the mavs could take back a lesser salery for a greater one if the team that got the bigger one was under the cap to take the differance, they wouldnt get any advanage out of it (trade exception). i personally believe that it will take something like a 9 million dollar starting deal to get nash.

I believe that this is incorrect. Teams that are over the cap, and take back less in a trade than what they give, get a "trade exception" for the difference. They can use that amount to sign a FA, or make an eneven trade where they take back more than they give.

Dallas might be interested in this because it gives them more flexibility than just losing Nash outright. It will cost them more actual dollars, but I do believe Cuban would take flexibility over cash.

 

[elindholm]

Teams that are over the cap, and take back less in a trade than what they give, get a "trade exception" for the difference.

Yes, that's correct. The question is whether it is possible to create a trade exemption through a sign-and-trade. That may be a loophole in the CBA closed by some special rule.

 

[JCSunsfan]

If the Suns convinced Dallas to do this, we could sign Nash for say $7.5 million, and still have max money available.

Who knows, with a little tweaking, maybe we could sign Nash and Kobe.

 

[elindholm]

It's a long shot, but I think one key would be getting Nash to accept a deal that doesn't have raises. (I believe contracts that actually go down over time are no longer allowed, but that could be wrong.) Assuming the Suns don't get Bryant, the extra $2 million or whatever in salary doesn't mean as much to them now as it will in a few years. Better to pay Nash as much up front as they can.

 

[JCSunsfan]

It's a long shot, but I think one key would be getting Nash to accept a deal that doesn't have raises. (I believe contracts that actually go down over time are no longer allowed, but that could be wrong.) Assuming the Suns don't get Bryant, the extra $2 million or whatever in salary doesn't mean as much to them now as it will in a few years. Better to pay Nash as much up front as they can.

I thought Bo Outlaw had a deal with a declining pay scale. In today's free agent market, it makes sense in certain situations.

Something like this would also make sense as a third party in a trade between Dallas and LA. It would give Dallas another 2 million plus leeway in making the salaries work under the CBA. If we worked it right, we might even get a pick out of such a deal.

 

[elindholm]

I thought Bo Outlaw had a deal with a declining pay scale.

Yes, he did (still does, actually), but that was under the old CBA. That's why I said "no longer" allowed. I know they used to be, but I think I read somewhere that they aren't anymore.

Interesting idea of a three-way trade with the Lakers.

 

[sly fly]

Sign Nash.

 

[George O'Brien]

Overpaying is still overpaying. I'm not convinced Nash is worth more than Brent Barry, let alone a couple million more.

 

[JHall]

Wouldn't BYC rules complicate this transaction?

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Wouldn't BYC rules complicate this transaction?

Complicate what transaction? BYC only comes into effect when a player signs an extension on top of his rookie scale contract.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Overpaying is still overpaying. I'm not convinced Nash is worth more than Brent Barry, let alone a couple million more.

Its not really. Let's say we sign Nash to a 4 year deal at 8.5 million per, with no increases. That's a 34 million deal.

But we trade Eisley in the mix. We owe Eisley 13 million over the next two. So, in essence we're getting Nash for 21 million over 4 years or 5.25 million per year. Plus, we actually only take a 2 million hit against our cap this summer--leaving us max money.

Yes, Nash is getting paid too much, but it is Marc Cuban that is doing the paying, in order to get a little cap flexibility in order to sign Shaq (or whatever purpose he wants).

Its a brilliant idea. It hinges on how much Cuban really wants 2 million in cap space.

 

[George O'Brien]

Its not really. Let's say we sign Nash to a 4 year deal at 8.5 million per, with no increases. That's a 34 million deal.

But we trade Eisley in the mix. We owe Eisley 13 million over the next two. So, in essence we're getting Nash for 21 million over 4 years or 5.25 million per year. Plus, we actually only take a 2 million hit against our cap this summer--leaving us max money.

Yes, Nash is getting paid too much, but it is Marc Cuban that is doing the paying, in order to get a little cap flexibility in order to sign Shaq (or whatever purpose he wants).

Its a brilliant idea. It hinges on how much Cuban really wants 2 million in cap space.

I'm not sure even bomb threats would get him to take that deal.

 

[JHall]

Complicate what transaction? BYC only comes into effect when a player signs an extension on top of his rookie scale contract.

Or when using the Larry Bird exception to re-sign a player, which the Mavericks will be doing if they re-sign Nash.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I'm not sure even bomb threats would get him to take that deal.

Reasons Cuban might consider this:

1. He's going to lose Nash anyway (hypothetically).
2. He gets a trade exception that helps him to land Shaq.
3. He gets a backup pg in Eisley (not much, but a vet a pg would be helpful to Dallas).

4. We could throw in a 1st round pick (our choice) next year.

Its not about cap, its about cash, and Cuban is willing to spend that.

 

[elindholm]

Unfortunately, I just remembered that you can't use a trade exception to sign a free agent. My original reason for suggesting this idea was that it would enable the Mavericks to retain Daniels. But that wouldn't work. If they want to keep Daniels, they'll have to find another way.

Sorry to have wasted everyone's time, but it was a good discussion.