NBA Finals: Spurs vs Heat

SirStefan32

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Donald, nobody in their right mind disputes that Kobe is an excellent defender. That would be just ridiculous... almost as ridiculous as claiming that Kobe shuts down Westbrook. NOBODY shuts down Westbrook, especially not an old man with a lot of mileage.

I really think that you need to accept that Kobe is old and that he is NOT the greatest player ever, and not even the best player is his era. He is no MJ, and he is no LeBron, but there is no shame in that. Not being better than MJ or James doesn't mean he wasn't a great player. Ridiculous arguments and claims, such as the one you made really undermine reasonable arguments about how great of a player Kobe was (and still is, frankly.)
 

D-Dogg

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Donald, nobody in their right mind disputes that Kobe is an excellent defender. That would be just ridiculous... almost as ridiculous as claiming that Kobe shuts down Westbrook. NOBODY shuts down Westbrook, especially not an old man with a lot of mileage.

I really think that you need to accept that Kobe is old and that he is NOT the greatest player ever, and not even the best player is his era. He is no MJ, and he is no LeBron, but there is no shame in that. Not being better than MJ or James doesn't mean he wasn't a great player. Ridiculous arguments and claims, such as the one you made really undermine reasonable arguments about how great of a player Kobe was (and still is, frankly.)

Kobe is the best player of his era. LeBron is the best of his era (they are not the same, though they overlap a bit, just like Kobe and Jordan's did). Kobe dominated the 2000s, Lebron will dominate the 20teens. Jordan dominated the 90s. Magic dominated the 80s. Drugs dominated the 70s. Russell Dominated the 60s.

I don't think Kobe's the greatest player ever. Magic is, then Jordan. But you'll say Jordan and someone else. After those two, IMO, there's a pretty big gap.

Kobe IS old, and is not the best in the game today. However, he's coming off of a stellar season at 34 years of age, which is freaking remarkable. His drive and determination are what set him apart. He's not a freakish athlete any longer, but he still puts up 27 or so a game, and had one of his most efficient seasons this year (top 3 in scoring, top 20 in assists, 3rd best FG% among SG for a guy who has 50% plus of his shots from long range, and only 21% at the rim). If LeBron can pull of the same type of feat, he'll probably enter into the Magic/Jordan discussion. I just don't see it happening though, based on his play style. Who knows though, both Kobe and Jordan successfully adjusted their games to play amazingly as they were older. LeBron is no doubt capable of the same.

And yes, Kobe shut down Westbrook in two games, of which I posted the information from, one of which was a playoff game. This year, he did not in the one time they put Kobe on Westbrook. But again, he's 34 and old. Kobe is an overrated defender because he tends to gamble and sag off players who aren't stars, but when focused he's locked down a lot of players, including Westbrook. He's a frustrating team defender because he's always out of position. His game is scoring, and making difficult shots look easy. I enjoy it.
 
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Cheesebeef

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Kobe is the best player of his era.

I don't think is set in stone as you make it out to be. Duncan is the best player of his era IMO. From start to finish, no matter who's been on Duncan's teams, his teams have won 50 or more games, made the playoffs and gone to Five finals, 4 of them where he was the unquestioned top dog.

Bryant was the beneficiary of coming in with Shaq and they were a great DUO. Probably the best in league history. But post Shaq, when Bryant had a team built around solely him, he won...what? 2 titles in 10 years...while missing the playoffs entirely one season, getting embarassed in the first round another couple seasons and then getting the very living snot kicked out of him in close-out games in the two seasons they didn't ring.

I'd take Duncan over Kobe. it's close, but the fact that Duncan was top dog on his dynasty for 14 years while never falling out of the playoffs is what puts him ahead of Kobe for me. That and the fact that he's a much better teammate.

My thought is the best player of his era is the guy I'd want to build a team around. Duncan is that guy and his teams have always been winners, as opposed to Bryant, who's been a questionable (at best) teammate, a coach killer and who's teams seem to quit or get completely trounced when they don't win the title.
 

TJ

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But can Kobe replicate himself 15 times and score 37 points in one possession like LeBron??

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Didn't think so... :D
 

Cheesebeef

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It's a good argument.

ya.

to be honest, I probably wouldn't put one above the other in the argument. they both dominated that era and the difference between their accomplishments are pretty thin.
 

AzStevenCal

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ya.

to be honest, I probably wouldn't put one above the other in the argument. they both dominated that era and the difference between their accomplishments are pretty thin.

It's a tough call for me too. Duncan whined better but Kobe was pretty damned good at it himself. I think Kobe's ability to escape prosecution coupled with his talent for tossing teammates under the bus gives him a slight edge.

Steve
 

chickenhead

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If I had the #1 pick and could draft either Duncan or Kobe knowing their respective careers in advance, I would draft Duncan. Especially if I'm rebuilding.
 

elindholm

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If I had the #1 pick and could draft either Duncan or Kobe knowing their respective careers in advance, I would draft Duncan.

I think that's an easy call. There are more players who are almost at Bryant's level than there are who are almost at Duncan's, so you're filling a position of greater need.
 

AzStevenCal

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I think that's an easy call. There are more players who are almost at Bryant's level than there are who are almost at Duncan's, so you're filling a position of greater need.

Agreed.

Steve
 

D-Dogg

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I think that's an easy call. There are more players who are almost at Bryant's level than there are who are almost at Duncan's, so you're filling a position of greater need.

This is true. SG is an easy position to fill (not near Kobe's level) but you stand a better chance of getting a solid team by taking the shockingly consistent superstar at PF (of which there are few) than at the SG level, where the delta between the best and 15th best is smaller. Value Based Drafting mantra from fantasy sports working in that regard.
 

95pro

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Does anyone think the spurs missed Stephen Jackson during the finals?
 

elindholm

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Does anyone think the spurs missed Stephen Jackson during the finals?

I sure don't. Who was he going to take minutes from? They were one made free throw or one defensive rebound away from winning the title. Was Jackson going to help in either of those departments?
 

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