NBA to vote on new draft lottery system

[BC867]

Tanking got us in a range of players that snagged us Josh Jackson. Do you want to give him back?

That's it? Really? I know that your posts, and opinions, are as sincere as mine. But I really expected more from you than Josh Jackson as a justification for not trying to become a legitimate contender year after year.

Jackson looks to be a good potential player but, jeez, he's not the difference maker to take us to the promised land. The Suns problems are a lot worse than using the name Josh Jackson as though his name were LeBron.

The Suns are still on Sarver's foundation of having three starting Point Guards. Out two best players are Guards. The "tanking" isn't so much taking place on the court as it is with the Front Office and coaching staff. Weakess has become an identity.

'Do I want to give Josh Jackson back?' hardly addresses the failure of the Suns leadership to provide a good product to the community. I know the Valley has many transplanted sports fans, but if we had talented leadership, there would be a bandwagon to jump on. The Suns are, and have been for some time, a powerless sled sliding down the hill, not in control of its direction season after season.

And the most frustrating part is that if new ownership takes over, I expect that our team would become the Seattle Suns. It is a no-win situation for those of us who have put our heart into our Valley's home teams for half a century.

Do you think that the $mall town banker, $arver, $ee$ $uns fan$ a$ anything more than dollar sign$? How can anyone even try to justify the position we are, and will be, in as a major sports franchise?

No, Josh Jackson is not justification for trying to lose.

 

[Hoop Head]

However, the worst problem in the NBA is not the teams tanking but rather the super teams who feed off the top free agents from other teams. So perhaps, in a way, we agree.

Superteams are more of a problem than tanking is or ever will be. With Golden State now you have a superteam that is under contract and in their primes for the next 3-4 seasons. So a lot of teams are thinking why bother trying to compete when they'll dominate.

 

[Hoop Head]

That's it? Really? I know that your posts, and opinions, are as sincere as mine. But I really expected more from you than Josh Jackson as a justification for not trying to become a legitimate contender year after year.

Jackson looks to be a good potential player but, jeez, he's not the difference maker to take us to the promised land. The Suns problems are a lot worse than using the name Josh Jackson as though his name were LeBron.

The Suns are still on Sarver's foundation of having three starting Point Guards. Out two best players are Guards. The "tanking" isn't so much taking place on the court as it is with the Front Office and coaching staff. Weakess has become an identity.

'Do I want to give Josh Jackson back?' hardly addresses the failure of the Suns leadership to provide a good product to the community. I know the Valley has many transplanted sports fans, but if we had talented leadership, there would be a bandwagon to jump on. The Suns are, and have been for some time, a powerless sled sliding down the hill, not in control of its direction season after season.

And the most frustrating part is that if new ownership takes over, I expect that our team would become the Seattle Suns. It is a no-win situation for those of us who have put our heart into our Valley's home teams for half a century.

Do you think that the $mall town banker, $arver, $ee$ $uns fan$ a$ anything more than dollar sign$? How can anyone even try to justify the position we are, and will be, in as a major sports franchise?

No, Josh Jackson is not justification for trying to lose.

Jackson is an all star caliber player who the Suns should be able to keep on the team for the next 8-9 seasons. That's huge for a struggling franchise and much better than throwing an insane amount of money at free agents like Paul Millsap in hopes they sign here, even though you know you're overpaying for that talent.

Jackson is the prize for tanking last year. We need to look at tanking on a yearly basis, not overall. We've been bad for a while but only tanked for 1 season. That's the fault of management but you can't just dismiss Jackson because you think he's the only thing we have to show for being awful the last 5 years.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Superteams are more of a problem than tanking is or ever will be. With Golden State now you have a superteam that is under contract and in their primes for the next 3-4 seasons. So a lot of teams are thinking why bother trying to compete when they'll dominate.

Both are a problem. A franchise player tag would help solve both. If teams were allowed to keep their best players--maybe even the top two, things would even out a lot.

Also, not letting teams draft in the top three in consecutive years, or only letting them do it in 1 out of 3 years, would solve the perpetual tanking issue.

 

[pokerface]

https://www.theringer.com/platform/amp/nba/2017/9/18/16317072/in-defense-of-tanking

 

[Mainstreet]

Superteams are more of a problem than tanking is or ever will be. With Golden State now you have a superteam that is under contract and in their primes for the next 3-4 seasons. So a lot of teams are thinking why bother trying to compete when they'll dominate.

This is my position as noted but tanking is a problem as well. Both need to be fixed.

I like JCSunsfan's idea of a franchise tag. I do not like the idea of the super teams preying on the likes of Devin Booker.

 

[Mainstreet]

https://www.theringer.com/platform/amp/nba/2017/9/18/16317072/in-defense-of-tanking

I think you are laying the groundwork for another tanking thread. LOL

 

[pokerface]

I think you are laying the groundwork for another tanking thread. LOL

 

[JCSunsfan]

I think you are laying the groundwork for another tanking thread. LOL

 

[pokerface]

https://www.theringer.com/platform/amp/nba/2017/9/18/16317072/in-defense-of-tanking

I hope a lot of you read this article. It encapsulates everything I've been saying for the last year. Tanking not only is sometimes necessary but can be fun. It's like going for a reverse championship where we can gain through losing. Also it creates a lot of interest in teams that normally we might not care about...more entertainment. Like the article stated...fans that want to tank still want to win but are on a different 'timeline' .. meaning we are looking long term.

We need to face facts...we aren't attracting quality free agents. The last superstar we attracted was Nash and I believe a big part of it was because we had Amare (plus we offered more $$$). If Booker continues his climb to stardom and some others pan out we again may be a free agent destination. But the bottom line is this...We got Booker through the draft as well as 'most' of our other key assets. We shouldn't knock or downplay the draft because it's still our best option.

 

[Mainstreet]

I hope a lot of you read this article. It encapsulates everything I've been saying for the last year. Tanking not only is sometimes necessary but can be fun. It's like going for a reverse championship where we can gain through losing. Also it creates a lot of interest in teams that normally we might not care about...more entertainment. Like the article stated...fans that want to tank still want to win but are on a different 'timeline' .. meaning we are looking long term.

We need to face facts...we aren't attracting quality free agents. The last superstar we attracted was Nash and I believe a big part of it was because we had Amare (plus we offered more $$$). If Booker continues his climb to stardom and some others pan out we again may be a free agent destination. But the bottom line is this...We got Booker through the draft as well as 'most' of our other key assets. We shouldn't knock or downplay the draft because it's still our best option.

IMO, embracing the tank is like embracing losing.

No thanks. Tanking is not a sport nor do I want it as a hobby.

Unfortunately such is the state of the NBA, many fans are looking for ways to entertain themselves when their team has no chance of winning a championship.

Maybe it's time for a new professional basketball league.

 

[pokerface]

IMO, embracing the tank is like embracing losing.

No thanks. Tanking is not a sport nor do I want it as a hobby.

Unfortunately such is the state of the NBA, many fans are looking for ways to entertain themselves when their team has no chance of winning a championship.

Maybe it's time for a new professional basketball league.

Why is that unfortunate? Only one team wins a championship...are other teams fans supposed to cry in their beer? Being depressed about it doesn't change reality. The NBA is about entertaiment ..anyway you can get it.

 

[SirStefan32]

IMO, embracing the tank is like embracing losing.

No thanks. Tanking is not a sport nor do I want it as a hobby.

Unfortunately such is the state of the NBA, many fans are looking for ways to entertain themselves when their team has no chance of winning a championship.

Maybe it's time for a new professional basketball league.

I couldn't agree more. Tanking sucks.

 

[pokerface]

A lot of you that down tanking have no viable alternative. Sorry for being a realist. Sarver finally wised up and did his FIRST official tank last season...and it netted us Jackson who is highly coveted by other teams. So according to many of you we should have not tanked and got a lower pick?? The ironic thing is fans that opposed tanking actually acted screwed over getting the fourth pick...LOL! Like you want to take the moral high ground while traveling the low road and wanting to cash in like the rest of us. OMG!

HOMIE DONT PLAY THAT!

 

[pokerface]

I couldn't agree more. Tanking sucks.

Yeah sure...boo Josh Jackson then.. our newest tank baby.

 

[pokerface]

Funny thing...some claim tanking doesn't work but the Spurs did a blatant year long tank for Duncan and won multiple championships because of it. Do fans care about it? Are investigations being launched? Are rings being returned? Does the media even talk about it? Does anyone care???

It's OUR turn now. The fans that claim it's all about championships... there you go. That's the blueprint for us. We aren't LA or NY...we don't have billionaire owners either. We have $arver who many claim doesn't want to spend the money. All the more reason we need to draft high.

 

[Phrazbit]

A lot of you that down tanking have no viable alternative. Sorry for being a realist. Sarver finally wised up and did his FIRST official tank last season...and it netted us Jackson who is highly coveted by other teams. So according to many of you we should have not tanked and got a lower pick?? The ironic thing is fans that opposed tanking actually acted screwed over getting the fourth pick...LOL! Like you want to take the moral high ground while traveling the low road and wanting to cash in like the rest of us. OMG!

HOMIE DONT PLAY THAT!

Which is why we'd like to see the league alter the lotto system so franchises are no longer rewarded for deliberately being pitiful. I didn't complain that we tanked last year, that is the way of life in the NBA, rather I complain because it is an awful system for franchises to live and die by.

You seem to be confusing the idea of "tanking doesn't work" with "tanking should not be rewarded because it belays the entire idea of 'sporting'."

 

[pokerface]

Which is why we'd like to see the league alter the lotto system so franchises are no longer rewarded for deliberately being pitiful. I didn't complain that we tanked last year, that is the way of life in the NBA, rather I complain because it is an awful system for franchises to live and die by.

You seem to be confusing the idea of "tanking doesn't work" with "tanking should not be rewarded because it belays the entire idea of 'sporting'."

Yeah but what is never mentioned by the anti-tank crowd is...

1) Some teams are genuinely bad. They will be punished equally with the 'tankers'.

2) Rich teams with no regard for money and go over the cap seems ' not sporting' as well.


NBA is a business...a ruthless business at times. It's about money...tv ratings.. attendance...etc etc. To try an over purify it will ultimately damage the brand and fail in the attempt to make things squeeky clean.

If you read the article there actually is a lot of interest in the draft and fans care more about standings when there is a tanking element... whether intentional or otherwise. To further "clean things up" they will hurt interest in the teams.

Do you want to see talented teams get more loaded because of fluke rules in the draft or do you want more parody in the league where teams are more competitive? To let fringe teams on the edge of playoffs get further loaded and leapfrog over crappy teams in the draft seems like a road to ruin IMO. You are better off living with a few 76ers teams gaming the system versus a few lucky teams running rough shot over the entire league.

 

[BC867]

Why is that unfortunate? Only one team wins a championship...are other teams fans supposed to cry in their beer? Being depressed about it doesn't change reality. The NBA is about entertaiment ..anyway you can get it.

There is a big gap between winning a championship and not making the playoffs year after year. Especially with the quantity of teams that do make the playoffs every season.

If the Suns claim to relevance is how well they tank, shame on them. It is depressing for fans. And, as I've said, a bright and knowledgable Front Office wouldn't sink to making that their mantra. Nor should its fans.

How many years of disappointment must we go through before we face the fact that the Suns ongoing mediocrity has just not led us to success? A bright spot here and there, but still no plan for the future except SOS.

A reminder that sports is not about how good or bad you are, but how you stack up against your competition game after game. The Suns are wallowing in failure.

 

[pokerface]

There is a big gap between winning a championship and not making the playoffs year after year. Especially with the quantity of teams that do make the playoffs every season.

If the Suns claim to relevance is how well they tank, shame on them. It is depressing for fans. And, as I've said, a bright and knowledgable Front Office wouldn't sink to making that their mantra. Nor should its fans.

How many years of disappointment must we go through before we face the fact that the Suns ongoing mediocrity has just not led us to success? A bright spot here and there, but still no plan for the future except SOS.

A reminder that sports is not about how good or bad you are, but how you stack up against your competition game after game. The Suns are wallowing in failure.

But BC867... with all due respect maybe the cause of our failure is we didn't tank long enough or hard enough. Plus you really aren't giving a solid alternative route. Yeah we scored Bledsoe through a trade and we 'kinda' messed up dealing Isiah Thomas but other than that our most lucrative assets have been through the draft. We really aren't left much other recourse. We need to have talent to attract talent. The good news is I think we are almost there and our darkest days are probably behind us. But I'm with Ouchie that we may need one more tank... Especially since Len was a bust and he was our hope at Center. If we can deal for a center fine but I'd rather not trade our pieces because they are intriguing and have upside.

 

[pokerface]

Hey you guys I've waffled a bit myself on tanking or not in prior years or whether we should try to trade our way out of this mess. But right now I'm digging our young nucleus. If they can show they can compete and make things interesting then don't tank. I just think they still are too young and undeveloped plus the west is too strong. Our best course might be to trade Bledsoe and force a tank unless he'd sign a contract extension then just roll as is and maybe combine our pick with the Miami pick and move up in the draft.

 

[JCSunsfan]

To me, there is a big difference between committing to a young core and ranking. Being purposefully bad, and putting a horrible product on the floor is tanking. Philly had done it for several years. Look at the roster they had two and three years ago.

But sitting our vets last year was tanking too. That was more than committing to youth. We sat healthy players in their mid twenties.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

To me, there is a big difference between committing to a young core and ranking. Being purposefully bad, and putting a horrible product on the floor is tanking. Philly had done it for several years. Look at the roster they had two and three years ago.

But sitting our vets last year was tanking too. That was more than committing to youth. We sat healthy players in their mid twenties.

But look at Philly's roster now. If health holds up they field:

Fultz
JJ reddick
Covington
Simmons
Embiid

Plus Saric off the bench.

That's a VERY talented lineup. Three likely studs (dare I say a "big three" - you know l, what everyone covets to win a championship) from the draft (albeit one with trade maneuvering but likely not available without being bad this past season), another good rotation player off the bench from draft. A diamond in the rough find and a mid-level free agent.

Looks like it is REALLY going to work out for the sixers if health holds.

 

[Chaplin]

But look at Philly's roster now. If health holds up they field:

Fultz
JJ reddick
Covington
Simmons
Embiid

Plus Saric off the bench.

That's a VERY talented lineup. Three likely studs (dare I say a "big three" - you know l, what everyone covets to win a championship) from the draft (albeit one with trade maneuvering but likely not available without being bad this past season), another good rotation player off the bench from draft. A diamond in the rough find and a mid-level free agent.

Looks like it is REALLY going to work out for the sixers if health holds.

But they've been tanking for YEARS. Literally YEARS.

 

[Mainstreet]

Why is that unfortunate? Only one team wins a championship...are other teams fans supposed to cry in their beer? Being depressed about it doesn't change reality. The NBA is about entertaiment ..anyway you can get it.

Deliberate tanking is not for me unless it comes after the All-Star Break when all the cards are dealt.

However, if the Suns are competitive at the All-Star Break I would look at trades that could make them better now. The draft is not a sure thing.

At some point in time, the Suns need to commit to the players they have, that they are intent on winning. I do not want the Suns to be a feeder team for the super teams.