NBA to vote on new draft lottery system

[Chaplin]

Deliberate tanking is not for me unless it comes after the All-Star Break when all the cards are dealt.

However, if the Suns are competitive at the All-Star Break I would look at trades that could make them better now. The draft is not a sure thing.

At some point in time, the Suns need to commit to the players they have, that they are intent on winning. I do not want the Suns to be a feeder team for the super teams.

And if you keep tanking over and over again, what is the incentive to the "good" rookies you've developed to actually stay? If we continue to tank when, say, Devin Booker is eligible for an extension, why wouldn't he want to bolt and go to another team that is closer to a title? You'll be in an endless circle of tanking.

Tanking once and getting Duncan is great, but that doesn't happen often and certainly not to the Phoenix Suns. You CAN'T use that as your tanking model.

 

[pokerface]

But they've been tanking for YEARS. Literally YEARS.

Yeah well we've been lousy for YEARS too Chaplin...YEARS. Which team is further along?

 

[pokerface]

And if you keep tanking over and over again, what is the incentive to the "good" rookies you've developed to actually stay? If we continue to tank when, say, Devin Booker is eligible for an extension, why wouldn't he want to bolt and go to another team that is closer to a title? You'll be in an endless circle of tanking.

Tanking once and getting Duncan is great, but that doesn't happen often and certainly not to the Phoenix Suns. You CAN'T use that as your tanking model.

We sure can because we have no other choice. Unless we can pull a Danny Ainge and find a stupid team to trade with.

 

[pokerface]

Deliberate tanking is not for me unless it comes after the All-Star Break when all the cards are dealt.

However, if the Suns are competitive at the All-Star Break I would look at trades that could make them better now. The draft is not a sure thing.

At some point in time, the Suns need to commit to the players they have, that they are intent on winning. I do not want the Suns to be a feeder team for the super teams.

Well jeez MS...no one is advocating tanking for eternity but talent isn't exactly flocking to the suns on their own. We wasted a couple years trying to be good. More wasted time...

 

[pokerface]

The good news is Sarver is on the tanking bandwagon...he's one of us now...lol

 

[Chaplin]

Yeah well we've been lousy for YEARS too Chaplin...YEARS. Which team is further along?

They've been

We sure can because we have no other choice. Unless we can pull a Danny Ainge and find a stupid team to trade with.

Come on. The Sixers tanked for A LOT longer than we have. In fact, we didn't "tank" until a couple years ago.

No other choice? A majority of the current tanking teams have been awful for so long, it's convenient for you to ignore the Sacramento Kings, the Charlotte Hornets, even the New Orleans Pelicans, who needed a blockbuster trade to actually gain some relevancy.

 

[Phrazbit]

But look at Philly's roster now. If health holds up they field:

Fultz
JJ reddick
Covington
Simmons
Embiid

Plus Saric off the bench.

That's a VERY talented lineup. Three likely studs (dare I say a "big three" - you know l, what everyone covets to win a championship) from the draft (albeit one with trade maneuvering but likely not available without being bad this past season), another good rotation player off the bench from draft. A diamond in the rough find and a mid-level free agent.

Looks like it is REALLY going to work out for the sixers if health holds.

But they've been tanking for YEARS. Literally YEARS.

Exactly... they've been playing in an empty arena and losing 70-80% of their games... for literally... years. Even if they stop being terrible, just watch, they'll still be in-front of a largely empty arena until they get REALLY good because only die hard fans were able to ride out "the process".

Furthermore, their prized pig, Embiid, has played less games in his first 3 years than Greg Oden, Simmons and Fultz have never played a game. Dare I say... its too early to call them a big anything. The only thing I know for sure about Philly is that they spent the last 5 years putting forth the most consistently terrible product the league has ever seen.

And again, this isn't about whether tanking "works", its about whether tanking is good for the game. I firmly believe it is not. I don't care if pokerface feels like fans get "excited" to watch the bottom standings... checking in to see if your team lost at the end of the night is totally different than attending and watching games. The Sixers have been unwatchable and that they've finished in the bottom 3 in attendance regularly reflects that the fans are not riveted by tanking. Instead they've done lasting damage to their fan base and brand.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Real professional sports is built on the premise that both teams are trying to win. In fact, it is considered illegal in some sense to NOT legitimately try to win if you are actually claiming to be a competitive sports league. Its fraudulent. Its why throwing fights is illegal.

When the NBA season winds down, many of the games are no more competitive than the Globetrotters vs Generals. This practices delegitimizes the league itself, even if it is advantageous to individual teams to lose. Adam Silver is right to try to fix this. I am just not sure what the best solution is.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

But they've been tanking for YEARS. Literally YEARS.

Yes but if they become contenders for YEARS. Literally YEARS. It would have been worth it, no? I mean we've sucked for years and I don't think we've got what the sixers have got to show for it.

 

[Chaplin]

Yes but if they become contenders for YEARS. Literally YEARS. It would have been worth it, no? I mean we've sucked for years and I don't think we've got what the sixers have got to show for it.

The Sixers have gotten #1 picks, and we haven't. Pretty big difference.

 

[Phrazbit]

Yes but if they become contenders for YEARS. Literally YEARS. It would have been worth it, no? I mean we've sucked for years and I don't think we've got what the sixers have got to show for it.

I don't think Embiid is going to hold up... and if he doesn't they've got little to show for it.

 

[pokerface]

Look..when teams draft players they can't see in the future...it's still gambling. It's like roulette...if you play enough numbers eventually your number will hit. Now maybe the Sixers have been playing Russian roulette but that's their choice. Bottomline where would they be had they not tanked... with probably less assets and still ticked off fans...STILL a losing team.

No one tells their players to lose...that's against the rules. Owners and coaches decides who plays..who starts...how much game time is allocated. So what's the problem here? Teams are supposed to do what again?? Play their best players and run them into the ground for a hole they can't dig themselves out of? How smart is that? Case in point...we rested Bledsoe. Many of us have the "injury prone" tag on his head. Why run him in the ground and risk injury? When he gets hurt who gets stuck with the bill? Then he becomes another Brandon Knight.. UNTRADABLE.

 

[pokerface]

I don't care if pokerface feels like fans get "excited" to watch the bottom standings... checking in to see if your team lost at the end of the night is totally different than attending and watching games. The Sixers have been unwatchable and that they've finished in the bottom 3 in attendance regularly reflects that the fans are not riveted by tanking. Instead they've done lasting damage to their fan base and brand.

I have to call BS on that. We watched the standings intensly..and it wasn't the top teams we were glued to. For teams that don't have a shot at the playoffs what else is there to get excited over if not for a shot in the draft? If the suns would have been selected for #1 pick we would have nearly wet ourselves in the excitement of it. If not for the drama of the draft I probably would have slept through last season.

 

[Chaplin]

I have to call BS on that. We watched the standings intensly..and it wasn't the top teams we were glued to. For teams that don't have a shot at the playoffs what else is there to get excited over if not for a shot in the draft? If the suns would have been selected for #1 pick we would have nearly wet ourselves in the excitement of it. If not for the drama of the draft I probably would have slept through last season.

Watching the standings is free. But pay hard earned cash for season tickets and tell me again that you would like to watch the team lose.

 

[Phrazbit]

I have to call BS on that. We watched the standings intensly..and it wasn't the top teams we were glued to. For teams that don't have a shot at the playoffs what else is there to get excited over if not for a shot in the draft? If the suns would have been selected for #1 pick we would have nearly wet ourselves in the excitement of it. If not for the drama of the draft I probably would have slept through last season.

A couple dozen fans, online, watching the standings on a semi-nightly basis does not equate to anything that promotes the health of the league. I should not have to explain that one.

 

[Mainstreet]

And if you keep tanking over and over again, what is the incentive to the "good" rookies you've developed to actually stay? If we continue to tank when, say, Devin Booker is eligible for an extension, why wouldn't he want to bolt and go to another team that is closer to a title? You'll be in an endless circle of tanking.

Tanking once and getting Duncan is great, but that doesn't happen often and certainly not to the Phoenix Suns. You CAN'T use that as your tanking model.

We are definitely in agreement Chaplin.

 

[pokerface]

Watching the standings is free. But pay hard earned cash for season tickets and tell me again that you would like to watch the team lose.

They're still going to lose anyway...it's only a matter how often.


Are you a season ticket holder? Lucky you!

 

[pokerface]

A couple dozen fans, online, watching the standings on a semi-nightly basis does not equate to anything that promotes the health of the league. I should not have to explain that one.

Virtually every losing team has a tanking thread...and the threads are looooong. Plus there are additional draft threads too. Don't underestimate the interest in the draft or tanking.

Maybe you participated in some of these threads??

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

A couple dozen fans, online, watching the standings on a semi-nightly basis does not equate to anything that promotes the health of the league. I should not have to explain that one.

No one watches a team trapped in the mire of mediocrity either. I shouldn't have to explain that one either.

 

[pokerface]

No one watches a team trapped in the mire of mediocrity either. I shouldn't have to explain that one either.

 

[BC867]

And if you keep tanking over and over again, what is the incentive to the "good" rookies you've developed to actually stay? If we continue to tank when, say, Devin Booker is eligible for an extension, why wouldn't he want to bolt and go to another team that is closer to a title? You'll be in an endless circle of tanking.

A lot of excellent posts in the past couple of pages, guys. The one highlighted is one of them. There are many considerations about tanking that have not been brought up.

Without specifically counting, I would say that the majority of us are tired of the Suns losing. Whether caused by tanking or hiring inexperienced Front Office and Head Coach personnel to save money.

"One more year" sounds like baseball's "Wait 'til next year". It is not a plan. It is a blind hope that leads to the same thing in a year. And again. And again. Just as it has with the Suns.

It reeks of a poorly run team. I'm sure many Arizonans look at the scores every day. But many, not just those of us posting to sports boards daily, root and care and, damnit, want to see results. Not more rationalization to already want to tank for still another year.

The sad part of it is . . . dedicated fans can't to a damn thing about it. Except vent online. And that and a dollar will get you a cup of coffee.

 

[Hoop Head]

No one pays to follow a tanking team, tickets don't sell and merchandise isn't moved either. Sure diehard fans follow closer but that's it, they're not paying money for that though. Tanking hurts the immediate bottom line of a team and the league. A team in a playoff race will sell tickets much more than a team competing for the #1 pick. That pick may help them sell tickets the following season but the NBA isn't run on how much they can bring in next year, it's about immediate return.

 

[pokerface]

A lot of excellent posts in the past couple of pages, guys. The one highlighted is one of them. There are many considerations about tanking that have not been brought up.

Without specifically counting, I would say that the majority of us are tired of the Suns losing. Whether caused by tanking or hiring inexperienced Front Office and Head Coach personnel to save money.

"One more year" sounds like baseball's "Wait 'til next year". It is not a plan. It is a blind hope that leads to the same thing in a year. And again. And again. Just as it has with the Suns.

It reeks of a poorly run team. I'm sure many Arizonans look at the scores every day. But many, not just those of us posting to sports boards daily, root and care and, damnit, want to see results. Not more rationalization to already want to tank for still another year.

The sad part of it is . . . dedicated fans can't to a damn thing about it. Except vent online. And that and a dollar will get you a cup of coffee.

Booker is locked in for many years to come and we might just be one more tank job away from completion. If anyone is in danger from bolting it's Bledsoe. But pg's are easy to replace... Especially if the suns start to look attractive again.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

A lot of excellent posts in the past couple of pages, guys. The one highlighted is one of them. There are many considerations about tanking that have not been brought up.

Without specifically counting, I would say that the majority of us are tired of the Suns losing. Whether caused by tanking or hiring inexperienced Front Office and Head Coach personnel to save money.

"One more year" sounds like baseball's "Wait 'til next year". It is not a plan. It is a blind hope that leads to the same thing in a year. And again. And again. Just as it has with the Suns.

It reeks of a poorly run team. I'm sure many Arizonans look at the scores every day. But many, not just those of us posting to sports boards daily, root and care and, damnit, want to see results. Not more rationalization to already want to tank for still another year.

The sad part of it is . . . dedicated fans can't to a damn thing about it. Except vent online. And that and a dollar will get you a cup of coffee.

I think the unfornate reality that guys like me and poker have come to face is that the nba has devolved into something very similar to MLB with haves and have nots. The only way to compete is to luck into a superstar or a ridiculous celtics-nets trade. And this we are proponents of increasing our odds on the luck end of the spectrum.

 

[pokerface]

No one pays to follow a tanking team, tickets don't sell and merchandise isn't moved either. Sure diehard fans follow closer but that's it, they're not paying money for that though. Tanking hurts the immediate bottom line of a team and the league. A team in a playoff race will sell tickets much more than a team competing for the #1 pick. That pick may help them sell tickets the following season but the NBA isn't run on how much they can bring in next year, it's about immediate return.

Yeah but a team that doesn't tank can still stink. Does a team with 30 wins generate much more interest than a team with 20 wins?