NBA to vote on new draft lottery system

[Phrazbit]

Virtually every losing team has a tanking thread...and the threads are looooong. Plus there are additional draft threads too. Don't underestimate the interest in the draft or tanking.

Maybe you participated in some of these threads??

No one watches a team trapped in the mire of mediocrity either. I shouldn't have to explain that one either.

There seems to be a lot getting lost in translation.

The question is not "does tanking work?", the question is "is tanking healthy for league?".

My participation in threads about tanking, even in SUPPORT of tanking has absolutely zero bearing on the question of should the league change the lotto rules because tanking is bad for the LEAGUE.

I am NOT saying the Suns should not have tanked. I AM saying that tanking, by nature, goes against the idea of sporting and the league should enact rules to stop rewarding the behavior.

The changes proposed will NOT be helpful to the "haves" of the league. Contending teams will still have no hope of having their draft slot leap into the #1 slot. It WILL however increase the odds of some of those teams mired in mediocrity a chance of getting a star that will push them over the top.

I would much rather root for my team to win games throughout the year, playoffs or no, with the knowledge that it will not have some disasterous effects on their draft odds.

If anything it will lessen the gap because you won't see teams giving away talented players to contenders in exchange for beans in a blatant effort to get as crappy a product as possible on the court for more lotto balls.

 

[Mainstreet]

Well jeez MS...no one is advocating tanking for eternity but talent isn't exactly flocking to the suns on their own. We wasted a couple years trying to be good. More wasted time...

I guess I find the whole tanking process distasteful and bad for the NBA.

I'm not sure drafting well isn't better than intentional tanking. Sure there are franchise players out there early in the draft but it takes a lot of luck to be in position to draft #1, #2 or even #3.

Also trading or signing important free agents is a part of building a team. Key players are not wanting to sign for a team who is willing to accept losing. The Suns need to build a respected front office around the league.

 

[elindholm]

The Sixers have gotten #1 picks, and we haven't. Pretty big difference.

Yeah, they've actually been amazingly lucky in the lottery. Top-3 in four consecutive years. No amount of tanking can guarantee that, or even make it likely. Even if they'd been the #1 lottery seed for all four of those years, they would have had only a 17% chance of landing in the top 3 all four times.

Mega-tanking can be very effective if you get divine intervention to go along with it. As we know, that will never be an option for the Suns.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

No one pays to follow a tanking team, tickets don't sell and merchandise isn't moved either. Sure diehard fans follow closer but that's it, they're not paying money for that though. Tanking hurts the immediate bottom line of a team and the league. A team in a playoff race will sell tickets much more than a team competing for the #1 pick. That pick may help them sell tickets the following season but the NBA isn't run on how much they can bring in next year, it's about immediate return.

Hahaha you think the alternative to tanking is being in a separate layoff race? It's most likely NOT. It's most likely winning 30-40 games in perpetuity. Ask the hawks how that fared for decades in terms of box office and merchandise.

 

[pokerface]

I think the unfornate reality that guys like me and poker have come to face is that the nba has devolved into something very similar to MLB with haves and have nots. The only way to compete is to luck into a superstar or a ridiculous celtics-nets trade. And this we are proponents of increasing our odds on the luck end of the spectrum.

I think it's "kill the messenger" time with a lot of fans. We didn't create the rules...we don't play the games...we don't make the money. We are just looking to have an interest in a subpar product. We arnt going to stomp our feet over something we can't control. We want to see things fixed. It's a matter of who has the better approach.

Sarver tanked because reality finally slapped some sense into him. Maybe because he got sick of free agents laughing in his face.

 

[Mainstreet]

There seems to be a lot getting lost in translation.

The question is not "does tanking work?", the question is "is tanking healthy for league?".

My participation in threads about tanking, even in SUPPORT of tanking has absolutely zero bearing on the question of should the league change the lotto rules because tanking is bad for the LEAGUE.

I am NOT saying the Suns should not have tanked. I AM saying that tanking, by nature, goes against the idea of sporting and the league should enact rules to stop rewarding the behavior.

The changes proposed will NOT be helpful to the "haves" of the league. Contending teams will still have no hope of having their draft slot leap into the #1 slot. It WILL however increase the odds of some of those teams mired in mediocrity a chance of getting a star that will push them over the top.

I would much rather root for my team to win games throughout the year, playoffs or no, with the knowledge that it will not have some disasterous effects on their draft odds.

If anything it will lessen the gap because you won't see teams giving away talented players to contenders in exchange for beans in a blatant effort to get as crappy a product as possible on the court for more lotto balls.

I remember when the commissioner used to block certain trades for the good of the league. Sadly, not so anymore.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

There seems to be a lot getting lost in translation.

The question is not "does tanking work?", the question is "is tanking healthy for league?".

My participation in threads about tanking, even in SUPPORT of tanking has absolutely zero bearing on the question of should the league change the lotto rules because tanking is bad for the LEAGUE.

I am NOT saying the Suns should not have tanked. I AM saying that tanking, by nature, goes against the idea of sporting and the league should enact rules to stop rewarding the behavior.

The changes proposed will NOT be helpful to the "haves" of the league. Contending teams will still have no hope of having their draft slot leap into the #1 slot. It WILL however increase the odds of some of those teams mired in mediocrity a chance of getting a star that will push them over the top.

I would much rather root for my team to win games throughout the year, playoffs or no, with the knowledge that it will not have some disasterous effects on their draft odds.

If anything it will lessen the gap because you won't see teams giving away talented players to contenders in exchange for beans in a blatant effort to get as crappy a product as possible on the court for more lotto balls.

Okay I get that point. But rather than making the league dissuade tanking how about making the league more competitive and ensuring parity. Then there's no need for tanking. But in its absence I am going to root for the only way our team can compete for a championship . . . which I see as tanking.

 

[Mainstreet]

I do not want the Suns to start the season tanking, plain and simple.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I guess I find the whole tanking process distasteful and bad for the NBA.

I'm not sure drafting well isn't better than intentional tanking. Sure there are franchise players out there early in the draft but it takes a lot of luck to be in position to draft #1, #2 or even #3.

Also trading or signing important free agents is a part of building a team. Key players are not wanting to sign for a team who is willing to accept losing. The Suns need to build a respected front office around the league.

One promising season for the sixers and you don't think free agents will sign with them? Watch.

 

[Phrazbit]

Okay I get that point. But rather than making the league dissuade tanking how about making the league more competitive and ensuring parity. Then there's no need for tanking. But in its absence I am going to root for the only way our team can compete for a championship . . . which I see as tanking.

Fine, but IMO the system, as is, the one that leads teams to decide to tank, only perpetuates the lack of parity. When multiple teams continually give away quality players to the better teams to get more lotto balls the talent gap widens. Especially when only one or two of the many tanking teams get anything of substance for their efforts.

The proposed change to the lottery is more likely to bring more parity than the current garbage.

 

[pokerface]

There seems to be a lot getting lost in translation.

The question is not "does tanking work?", the question is "is tanking healthy for league?".

My participation in threads about tanking, even in SUPPORT of tanking has absolutely zero bearing on the question of should the league change the lotto rules because tanking is bad for the LEAGUE.

I am NOT saying the Suns should not have tanked. I AM saying that tanking, by nature, goes against the idea of sporting and the league should enact rules to stop rewarding the behavior.

The changes proposed will NOT be helpful to the "haves" of the league. Contending teams will still have no hope of having their draft slot leap into the #1 slot. It WILL however increase the odds of some of those teams mired in mediocrity a chance of getting a star that will push them over the top.

I would much rather root for my team to win games throughout the year, playoffs or no, with the knowledge that it will not have some disasterous effects on their draft odds.

If anything it will lessen the gap because you won't see teams giving away talented players to contenders in exchange for beans in a blatant effort to get as crappy a product as possible on the court for more lotto balls.

Alright..I'll follow your argument.


"Is tanking healthy for the league?"

Yes it is because apparently tanking is running rampant but the league is making $$$$$. Teams are selling for record amounts of money. Revenue has never been higher...teams have never been worth more...tv revenue alone is astronomical. Where is your proof that tanking is hurting the league?

 

[Mainstreet]

One promising season for the sixers and you don't think free agents will sign with them? Watch.

I have no doubt but this is not how I want the system to work. I can't remember blatant tanking in the Colangelo era with the Suns.

Obviously times have changed. Perhaps I need a new sport.

 

[Phrazbit]

Alright..I'll follow your argument.


"Is tanking healthy for the league?"

Yes it is because apparently tanking is running rampant but the league is making $$$$$. Teams are selling for record amounts of money. Revenue has never been higher...teams have never been worth more...tv revenue alone is astronomical. Where is your proof that tanking is hurting the league?

Every league is getting record TV deals, sports franchises across the spectrum are selling for record amounts.

Meanwhile, perpetually tanking teams play in front of empty arenas.

The Sixers have finished in the dregs of the attendance numbers during their tanking run and only the perpetually inept Nets average a lower TV viewership.

https://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-...uld-barely-fill-76ers--stadium-220939908.html

 

[pokerface]

Don't you guys remember the outrage when Orlando drafted #1 two years in a row despite their low odds? Didn't they adjust the odds even further after that to make it more unlikely? I thought they did!

 

[pokerface]

Every league is getting record TV deals, sports franchises across the spectrum are selling for record amounts.

Meanwhile, perpetually tanking teams play in front of empty arenas.

The Sixers have finished in the dregs of the attendance numbers during their tanking run and only the perpetually inept Nets average a lower TV viewership.

https://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-...uld-barely-fill-76ers--stadium-220939908.html

That only proves my point that teams don't need to be punished further for tanking because they are already punished enough.

BTW.. your point was the "league" was hurt by tanking....not individual teams. Maybe that was lost in translation as well?

 

[Phrazbit]

That only proves my point that teams don't need to be punished further for tanking because they are already punished enough.

BTW.. your point was the "league" was hurt by tanking....not individual teams. Maybe that was lost in translation as well?

Your fans abandoning you isn't "punishment", its a sign of your own incompetence and the damage you're doing to your brand.

It is not healthy for the league if some teams have no fans because they've spent half a decade deliberately being trash. Not a hard thing to translate.

Why are you so opposed to this rule change anyway? Wouldn't it be nice to have a team being willing to fight for wins AND have the knowledge they'd still have a shot at a high draft pick should they fall short of the playoffs?

 

[pokerface]

I have no doubt but this is not how I want the system to work. I can't remember blatant tanking in the Colangelo era with the Suns.

Obviously times have changed. Perhaps I need a new sport.

I hear soccer is on the upswing...and I never heard about one tanking incident!

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I think it's "kill the messenger" time with a lot of fans. We didn't create the rules...we don't play the games...we don't make the money. We are just looking to have an interest in a subpar product. We arnt going to stomp our feet over something we can't control. We want to see things fixed. It's a matter of who has the better approach.

Sarver tanked because reality finally slapped some sense into him. Maybe because he got sick of free agents laughing in his face.

It's interesting because we are for tanking as a solution to a problem: being a bad team with no avenues to get better. All those that are against tanking, what's your proposed solution? Keep trying real hard, getting 30-35 wins, draft 10th-14th, get mediocre talent to continue to win 30-35 games? Tanking is a proposed solution. And let's not pretend we even know whether it's effective or not because true outright tanking is a new thing. We are just about to witness whether there's a real upside to Philly's process or not. And the Suns have only tanked one season and we haven't seen the fruit of that tank play even a single nba game yet. So we don't know if it's going to fail or succeed. Why we do know was what was being done before tanking last season certainly was NOT succeeding.

 

[Phrazbit]

It's interesting because we are for tanking as a solution to a problem: being a bad team with no avenues to get better. All those that are against tanking, what's your proposed solution? Keep trying real hard, getting 30-35 wins, draft 10th-14th, get mediocre talent to continue to win 30-35 games? Tanking is a proposed solution. And let's not pretend we even know whether it's effective or not because true outright tanking is a new thing. We are just about to witness whether there's a real upside to Philly's process or not. And the Suns have only tanked one season and we haven't seen the fruit of that tank play even a single nba game yet. So we don't know if it's going to fail or succeed. Why we do know was what was being done before tanking last season certainly was NOT succeeding.

What if you could win 30-35 games, not blow up your team mid season, giving away talent, and still have a realistic shot at a top 4 pick that could propel you into contention?

Because... that is EXACTLY what the new proposal is designed to do.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Fine, but IMO the system, as is, the one that leads teams to decide to tank, only perpetuates the lack of parity. When multiple teams continually give away quality players to the better teams to get more lotto balls the talent gap widens. Especially when only one or two of the many tanking teams get anything of substance for their efforts.

The proposed change to the lottery is more likely to bring more parity than the current garbage.

You don't think we will have parity if the sixers process works and they grow into a contender alongside the celtics? Or if the Knicks tank and get a stud to lure alongside porzingas? Teams still have to do a good job with the chances they get, but you have to improve their chances.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Every league is getting record TV deals, sports franchises across the spectrum are selling for record amounts.

Meanwhile, perpetually tanking teams play in front of empty arenas.

The Sixers have finished in the dregs of the attendance numbers during their tanking run and only the perpetually inept Nets average a lower TV viewership.

https://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-...uld-barely-fill-76ers--stadium-220939908.html

I'll bet that changes this year. They were willing to accept short term awfulness with the hopes of springboarding into contender status and thereby avoiding perpetual mediocrity. I appreciate the foresight verses being short-sighted.

 

[Mainstreet]

I hear soccer is on the upswing...and I never heard about one tanking incident!

Soccer is a growing sport.

So do you want the Suns to start tanking right off the bat since you enjoy tanking so much?

 

[Phrazbit]

You don't think we will have parity if the sixers process works and they grow into a contender alongside the celtics? Or if the Knicks tank and get a stud to lure alongside porzingas? Teams still have to do a good job with the chances they get, but you have to improve their chances.

I think it is more likely that the current incarnation of the Sixers never contends for anything because Embiid never gets healthy (and seeing as they drafted him knowing he was damaged goods I don't feel much pitty) and they continue their reign as one of the most putrid franchises in the league.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Your fans abandoning you isn't "punishment", its a sign of your own incompetence and the damage you're doing to your brand.

It is not healthy for the league if some teams have no fans because they've spent half a decade deliberately being trash. Not a hard thing to translate.

Why are you so opposed to this rule change anyway? Wouldn't it be nice to have a team being willing to fight for wins AND have the knowledge they'd still have a shot at a high draft pick should they fall short of the playoffs?

All fans flock back when there's a reason to. They aren't lost permanently by tanking. They also turnout when you're mediocre for long periods.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

What if you could win 30-35 games, not blow up your team mid season, giving away talent, and still have a realistic shot at a top 4 pick that could propel you into contention?

Because... that is EXACTLY what the new proposal is designed to do.

If the worst teams don't get lucky and now they've got less luck they fall even further behind.