Nene to the Suns?

[devilalum]

your worries are even more far-fetched.

I totally hope you are correct.

 

[Dan H]

I just don't think JJ's situation is the same and I'm a little concerned about the way the SUns have handled him.

They should have offered him a beeter deal last summer and we wouldn't be having this discussion.

BC and the front office made some great moves over the last few years and it has obviously paid off but they've also pulled a few ****** to go along with the gems.

Sounds like you're more concerned with it than JJ is. If he has a problem, he hasn't made it public - and the fact that he didn't sign a deal last year is going to mean a lot more money for him. Money which Bryan Colangelo has already said the Suns plan on paying him.

 

[Chaplin]

They were also wanting to eliminate or at least reduce the 15 day wait between July 1st, when you can speak to Free Agents and July 15th, when you can actually sign them. Wonder if that got changed.

 

[se7en]

I guess that's possible but I don't think I've ever heard of a player in JJ's situation orchestrating his own trade like that.

Example?

Kenyon Martin worked out a sign and trade as a restricted free agent between New Jersey and Denver.

In fact, this would be an identical scenario. Denver attempted to sign Martin with free cap space just as Cleveland is able to do with JJ. However, the Nets threatened to match and instead Denver negotiated a sign and trade.

Oh, and for another parallel, Martin a young player coming from an NBA finals team (since it was asked whether anyone in this situation had also had been on a successful team like JJ)

 

[Cheesebeef]

Kenyon Martin worked out a sign and trade as a restricted free agent between New Jersey and Denver.

In fact, this would be an identical scenario. Denver attempted to sign Martin with free cap space just as Cleveland is able to do with JJ. However, the Nets threatened to match and instead Denver negotiated a sign and trade.

Oh, and for another parallel, Martin a young player coming from an NBA finals team (since it was asked whether anyone in this situation had also had been on a successful team like JJ)

I thought it was pretty well known that the Nets were looking to cut payroll - I odn't think they were looking to match for Kenyon Martin - isn't that also the reason why they gave up Kittles - to get as many contracts off the books as possible before they were sold?

 

[se7en]

I thought it was pretty well known that the Nets were looking to cut payroll - I odn't think they were looking to match for Kenyon Martin - isn't that also the reason why they gave up Kittles - to get as many contracts off the books as possible before they were sold?

That wasn’t one of the questions being asked. The question was whether a talented Restricted Free Agent from a successful team had ever orchestrated a sign and trade to a team that had the ability to sign that player outright. And I gave a pretty darn good example of just that.

 

[devilalum]

I don't think JJ wants to leave and I don't think the SUns want to lose him.


The only way I see JJ leaving is if the negotiations get ugly. I can't think of a specific example of the Suns dropping the ball in this manner. I just wish they'd taken care of it last summer.

 

[Joe Mama]

I thought it was pretty well known that the Nets were looking to cut payroll - I odn't think they were looking to match for Kenyon Martin - isn't that also the reason why they gave up Kittles - to get as many contracts off the books as possible before they were sold?

that's essentially correct. They didn't think Martin was worth as much as Denver gave him. They let him go.

Joe Mama

 

[devilalum]

That wasn’t one of the questions being asked. The question was whether a talented Restricted Free Agent from a successful team had ever orchestrated a sign and trade to a team that had the ability to sign that player outright. And I gave a pretty darn good example of just that.

Actually my statement was, "I guess that's possible but I don't think I've ever heard of a player in JJ's situation orchestrating his own trade like that."

So was Martin's SITUATION the same as JJ's?

 

[devilalum]

that's essentially correct. They didn't think Martin was worth as much as Denver gave him. They let him go.

Joe Mama

This is different because the Suns have said they will match 'ANY" offer.

If you want a more direct comparison I think you should look at Stromile Swift.

The Griz told everybody they would match any offer thus scaring everybody away. Swift called their bluff and signed the one year tender and now he is unrestricted.

 

[Cheesebeef]

That wasn’t one of the questions being asked. The question was whether a talented Restricted Free Agent from a successful team had ever orchestrated a sign and trade to a team that had the ability to sign that player outright. And I gave a pretty darn good example of just that.

I thought you were giving an example of a guy in JJ situation - which Martin really wasn't. Personally, I think it was the Nets making that deal along with Martin's acquiescence in order to get the huge contract. I believe their situations to be different from that respect, thus not really all that comparable.

 

[elindholm]

Johnson can't force a sign-and-trade from the Suns. Unless the other team has something that Phoenix really wants, they'll just let Johnson go if they become really convinced that he doesn't want to play for them.

The difference between Martin's and Johnson's situations is that the Nets didn't particularly want Martin.

The difference between Swift's and Johnson's situations is that the market for Swift was simply not that strong. You're talking about a guy with a bunch of unrealized "potential" who still hasn't shown that he can handle starter's minutes on a regular basis. If there was a team out there last summer that really wanted Swift, Swift's agent and the Grizzlies would have worked something out.

I would put the probability of Johnson's signing a one-year escape contract at right around zero. It is slightly more likely that he'll convince the Suns that he doesn't want to play for them anymore, and they reluctantly let him sign elsewhere without matching, or possibly agree to a sign-and-trade. However, it remains very likely that he will re-sign with the Suns.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Johnson can't force a sign-and-trade from the Suns. Unless the other team has something that Phoenix really wants, they'll just let Johnson go if they become really convinced that he doesn't want to play for them.

The difference between Martin's and Johnson's situations is that the Nets didn't particularly want Martin.

The difference between Swift's and Johnson's situations is that the market for Swift was simply not that strong. You're talking about a guy with a bunch of unrealized "potential" who still hasn't shown that he can handle starter's minutes on a regular basis. If there was a team out there last summer that really wanted Swift, Swift's agent and the Grizzlies would have worked something out.

I would put the probability of Johnson's signing a one-year escape contract at right around zero. It is slightly more likely that he'll convince the Suns that he doesn't want to play for him anymore, and they reluctantly let him sign elsewhere without matching, or possibly agree to a sign-and-trade. However, it remains very likely that he will re-sign with the Suns.

well said.

 

[George O'Brien]

Johnson can't force a sign-and-trade from the Suns. Unless the other team has something that Phoenix really wants, they'll just let Johnson go if they become really convinced that he doesn't want to play for them.

The difference between Martin's and Johnson's situations is that the Nets didn't particularly want Martin.

The difference between Swift's and Johnson's situations is that the market for Swift was simply not that strong. You're talking about a guy with a bunch of unrealized "potential" who still hasn't shown that he can handle starter's minutes on a regular basis. If there was a team out there last summer that really wanted Swift, Swift's agent and the Grizzlies would have worked something out.

I would put the probability of Johnson's signing a one-year escape contract at right around zero. It is slightly more likely that he'll convince the Suns that he doesn't want to play for him anymore, and they reluctantly let him sign elsewhere without matching, or possibly agree to a sign-and-trade. However, it remains very likely that he will re-sign with the Suns.

I agree.

The notion of an RFA FORCING a trade rarely stands up to analysis. Teams only lose RFA's when they don't value the player very much or think they can easily replace him.

Swift is the only RFA I can remember that actually stuck out a season after not getting an offer. However, it is not clear he will make out that well in the free agency market.

 

[Joe Mama]

The New Jersey Nets did want Kenyon Martin. They just did not want to pay all that money for him. That's not the same situation, but it is an example of a restricted free agent who was signed and traded despite the fact his first-team wanted to keep him.

Joe Mama

 

[George O'Brien]

Semantics. If you want the guy enough, you'll pay the price to keep him. If you didn't want to pay, then you didn't want him enough.

Actually any player can "force" a trade by refusing to play. Look at Jimmy Jackson. But it is very rare for a player to do it unless the team really awful.