Nets/Suns Trade

[Hoop Head]

@Poop Head

I listened to most of the podcast until I lost it near the end. Here is my takeaway.

We all know the NBA is a business but it appears it was more so with him than I thought. It seems Dudley's priority was finding another place where he could play. This was important to him... to keep playing which is understandable.

He felt the coaching changes made his mentoring role more chaotic. A buyout was never an option as he was not willing to give up money. I found this a bit disappointing because I never thought he was worth the 3 year, $30 million deal the Suns paid him.

Also he seemed to feel the Suns should have gone after Kyrie likely at the cost of Josh Jackson. He respects Toronto for going after Kawhi... taking the chance. He notes it is easier to acquire a third star with two stars in place which is true. However, I do not recall Dudley's answer when Woj said Kyrie could have walked.



He also talked about how stars talk about organizations and their practice regimen. And now players are able to move around while they are still young. Star players are more vocal and they wield a lot of power.

https://www.brightsideofthesun.com/...ng-phoenix-suns-brooklyn-nets-nba-free-agency


I wish there was a transcript of the whole interview. I guess I came away from the podcast more cynical. Perhaps the Suns were better to part ways with him... maybe even earlier.

He definitely didn't com across as laid back and carefree as you'd expect based on his tweets and also his other interviews. I can see his point to a certain extent about wanting to play but he should have showed up in better shape if he really wanted to see more time on the floor. He was put in a tough position here. I don't blame him for how he left at all. I actually respect that he didn't want a buyout, to a certain extent, but his playing days are coming to an end. There's no guarantee he would have been picked up by anyone, even on a minimum deal. He's just not that good anymore. Greg Monroe is still without a team, does anyone think Dudley will find a team quicker than him? He's got this year and maybe 1 more to try and finish his career playing in the league.

The Suns should have protected themselves more with a player option if they thought it might not work out or to have maximum flexibility. Both he and Chandler's deals should have had options. Whatever, it is what it is.

Regarding Kyrie, I can see his thought process but I don't agree with it. He doesn't have another couple of years to wait for a team to compete so of course he wanted a star added to get better right away. His playing days are almost over and I think that influenced his thinking quite a bit. Jackson also took minutes he might have had a chance to get. I think another reason he was so in favor of the Kyrie trade also is because of our terrible PG play last year once Bledsoe was dealt. It was really bad and Kyrie ended up being just as good, if not better, in Boston. So he would have been a star and filled a position of need for the Suns. Of course that takes us out of the Ayton race and who knows how we'd look today but Dudley would probably still be a Sun this coming season if that deal was made. Who knows. It was a decent listen though, IMO.

 

[RON_IN_OC]

We could have a Raja Bell clothesline night though. Down goes the mamba.

You must be registered for see images attach

How about hanging Robert Horry's towel from Raja Bell's clothesline?

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

 

[Mainstreet]

He definitely didn't com across as laid back and carefree as you'd expect based on his tweets and also his other interviews. I can see his point to a certain extent about wanting to play but he should have showed up in better shape if he really wanted to see more time on the floor. He was put in a tough position here. I don't blame him for how he left at all. I actually respect that he didn't want a buyout, to a certain extent, but his playing days are coming to an end. There's no guarantee he would have been picked up by anyone, even on a minimum deal. He's just not that good anymore. Greg Monroe is still without a team, does anyone think Dudley will find a team quicker than him? He's got this year and maybe 1 more to try and finish his career playing in the league.

The Suns should have protected themselves more with a player option if they thought it might not work out or to have maximum flexibility. Both he and Chandler's deals should have had options. Whatever, it is what it is.

Regarding Kyrie, I can see his thought process but I don't agree with it. He doesn't have another couple of years to wait for a team to compete so of course he wanted a star added to get better right away. His playing days are almost over and I think that influenced his thinking quite a bit. Jackson also took minutes he might have had a chance to get. I think another reason he was so in favor of the Kyrie trade also is because of our terrible PG play last year once Bledsoe was dealt. It was really bad and Kyrie ended up being just as good, if not better, in Boston. So he would have been a star and filled a position of need for the Suns. Of course that takes us out of the Ayton race and who knows how we'd look today but Dudley would probably still be a Sun this coming season if that deal was made. Who knows. It was a decent listen though, IMO.

I definitely agree this coming season should have been option years for Dudley and Chandler. Dudley should be glad the Nets took him although it took a 2nd round pick to do it.

It's easy for Dudley to play GM with nothing at stake. I guess I expected more gratitude from Dudley for the 3 year, $30 million contract which the Suns gave him. I expect no other team would have paid him this amount of money. I'm still shaking my head about that contract.

Also I definitely agree, Dudley could have done a better job of staying in shape. Even more so since he had a mentor role with the Suns.

 

[Hoop Head]

I definitely agree this coming season should have been option years for Dudley and Chandler. Dudley should be glad the Nets took him although it took a 2nd round pick to do it.

It's easy for Dudley to play GM with nothing at stake. I guess I expected more gratitude from Dudley for the 3 year, $30 million contract which the Suns gave him. I expect no other team would have paid him this amount of money. I'm still shaking my head about that contract.

Also I definitely agree, Dudley could have done a better job of staying in shape. Even more so since he had a mentor role with the Suns.

Another way I view it is Dudley is positioning himself right now for another contract or possibly a job after he's done playing. He's going to put on his GM cap whenever asked and he's able to show some analysis. I won't hold anything he said against because he was a pro while he was here. He wasn't in as good of shape as anyone would have liked but he also got pushed to the bench quickly in his first year here. I don't believe he has an issue with Triano but he wasn't fond of Watson. For him to kick him now would be seen as low. I believe that's part of what he meant about the coaching changes pushing him into a bigger mentor role. I don't think it was so much that he wasn't ready for that but if you go back to the press conference when he returned there was a ton of talk of him being our stretch 4 going forward, like Ariza now. He was benched after 5 games or so for Chriss and it didn't matter how well he played or poorly Chriss did, he wasn't getting that job back. So his role did change. He doesn't strike me as the type of guy who would sulk so rather than being upset he made the move to be more of a mentor since he wasn't seeing the court anymore.

 

[Mainstreet]

Another way I view it is Dudley is positioning himself right now for another contract or possibly a job after he's done playing. He's going to put on his GM cap whenever asked and he's able to show some analysis. I won't hold anything he said against because he was a pro while he was here. He wasn't in as good of shape as anyone would have liked but he also got pushed to the bench quickly in his first year here. I don't believe he has an issue with Triano but he wasn't fond of Watson. For him to kick him now would be seen as low. I believe that's part of what he meant about the coaching changes pushing him into a bigger mentor role. I don't think it was so much that he wasn't ready for that but if you go back to the press conference when he returned there was a ton of talk of him being our stretch 4 going forward, like Ariza now. He was benched after 5 games or so for Chriss and it didn't matter how well he played or poorly Chriss did, he wasn't getting that job back. So his role did change. He doesn't strike me as the type of guy who would sulk so rather than being upset he made the move to be more of a mentor since he wasn't seeing the court anymore.

When Dudley was not in shape it speaks volumes just like it did for Chriss being out of shape. Action speaks louder than words.

Maybe he is preparing himself to be a commentator. Regardless, I'm not sad to see him go.

 

[JCSunsfan]

When Dudley was not in shape it speaks volumes just like it did for Chriss being out of shape. Action speaks louder than words.

Maybe he is preparing himself to be a commentator. Regardless, I'm not sad to see him go.

This. We were paying him $10 million a year and he showed up to play like THAT. He is a great guy, a fun guy, but that is not professional.

 

[AzStevenCal]

This. We were paying him $10 million a year and he showed up to play like THAT. He is a great guy, a fun guy, but that is not professional.

He's like Dragic to me, a two time disappointment. Duds was in great shape (for him) until he got his first new contract from us and he immediately started packing on the weight. I don't know for sure that's why we traded him but his conditioning surely played a part. And now, again, he gets a new contract and starts pigging out again. I like what I know of Jared (and Goran) but fool me once...

 

[Mainstreet]

This. We were paying him $10 million a year and he showed up to play like THAT. He is a great guy, a fun guy, but that is not professional.

Paying Dudley $30 million on his second contract with the Suns will always be a puzzler for me. Even now it's a huge over payment.

 

[95pro]

You can't blame Dudley at all for trying to get the most $ he can. Whats different from him and the other players signing deals more than they're worth? Yes he's a Sun, but who signed him to that offer to begin with?

 

[JCSunsfan]

You can't blame Dudley at all for trying to get the most $ he can. Whats different from him and the other players signing deals more than they're worth? Yes he's a Sun, but who signed him to that offer to begin with?

I can blame him for not being in shape to play.

You bring in a guy like that to be your veteran mentor, and then, guess what, your rookie pf shows up for his second camp fat and out of shape.

Shocker.

When people talk about Ariza being veteran mentor WHO CAN ACTUALLY PLAY its no wonder to whom they are comparing him.

Now we need to get rid of Chandler. I don't see him as that much of a positive influence either. I would just as soon buy him out and let him walk than have him take up space on the roster. I would rather have Len 9 out of 10 times.

 

[BC867]

I can blame him for not being in shape to play.

You bring in a guy like that to be your veteran mentor, and then, guess what, your rookie pf shows up for his second camp fat and out of shape.

Shocker.

When people talk about Ariza being veteran mentor WHO CAN ACTUALLY PLAY its no wonder to whom they are comparing him.

Now we need to get rid of Chandler. I don't see him as that much of a positive influence either. I would just as soon buy him out and let him walk than have him take up space on the roster. I would rather have Len 9 out of 10 times.

I agree. Any NBA player, whether starter, in the rotation off the bench or at the end of the bench should be in shape to play whenever needed, as well as in being a mentor and setting an example for young players.

I disagreed with signing him as a player, because his arms look to be those you'd expect from an accountant (nothing against accountants ) shooting hoops with his friends at the park.

 

[Hoop Head]

I still wonder why they signed Dudley instead of Teletovic at the time. IIRC their deals were announced the same day or within a day of each other and Teletovic had played the role with us the previous season that Dudley was being brought in to be, a stretch 4 that could spread the floor and be a veteran leader for our young team. He even played with Bender on their national team. Their deals were for the same amount of money also. There had to have been something behind the scenes we weren't aware of that caused us to go with Dudley instead because Teletovic played good in the year prior for us as the first big off the bench. Asking Dudley to be a stretch 4 seemed odd also, especially in a starting role.

Teletovic ended up having to sit out part of last season because of a blood clot issue but he was healthy while here and hopefully he's capable of making a return this next season. You hate to see a player forced to retire early for health reasons, especially something like that which isn't your typical injury and points to something more serious.

 

[SweetD]

Duds always had something to say, but dude was no where near in NBA shape. He will not get much playing time in Brooklyn and I expect him to not get another contract. He will need to look for a player/coach deal next yery or it is off to the broadcast booth for him.

 

[GatorAZ]

Duds always had something to say, but dude was no where near in NBA shape. He will not get much playing time in Brooklyn and I expect him to not get another contract. He will need to look for a player/coach deal next yery or it is off to the broadcast booth for him.

Completely mailed it in after signing here. Granted it’s mainly the Suns fault for signing such a scrub player to a 3 year deal.

 

[sdscard4]

Signed that contract and Duds went straight to Dairy Queen. Was like hitting the lottery for him. 30 million unreal.

 

[Carolinacacti]

Sad thing is the Suns where better with him on the court. This was a tank signing just to make the minimal salary for the league.

 

[Phrazbit]

Sad thing is the Suns where better with him on the court. This was a tank signing just to make the minimal salary for the leauge.

I think it was more of a situation where, because of the new TV deal, the entire league had money burning through their pockets and insane contracts were being thrown around left and right.

The Dudley contract was bad, but I don't think it even sniffed the top 10 wildest contracts given out that summer.

https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2016/6/30/12052290/nba-free-agent-signings-tracker-2016-rumors

Look at that list... it blows the mind. Mozgov, Leonard, Plumlee... those everyone remembers, but Bizmack, Solomon Hill (48 million!!!), Harkless (40 mil!!!), Allen Crabbe for 75 million... MATCHED!!! The list goes on and on.

The Blazers alone gave out like 340 million over 4 years for CJ McCollum and some lousy bench players.

 

[95pro]

I agree. Any NBA player, whether starter, in the rotation off the bench or at the end of the bench should be in shape to play whenever needed, as well as in being a mentor and setting an example for young players.

I disagreed with signing him as a player, because his arms look to be those you'd expect from an accountant (nothing against accountants ) shooting hoops with his friends at the park.

I agree with that too, about him being in shape to play NBA ball.
But that's not my point, my point is that he like any other player wants to extract the most $ out of their contract as they can.

 

[Hoop Head]

The Blazers alone gave out like 340 million over 4 years for CJ McCollum and some lousy bench players.

That's why I'm surprised they haven't blown things up. Portland fans should have filed a restraining order against their GM to get him away from the team entirely. He handed out some of the worst contracts in the league all on his own when the cap spiked. Not only did they sign some players to ridiculous contracts but they've also lost some players because they overpaid their own guys so much. They've had to let Napier go in free agency and they traded away Noah Vonleh for cash. They did trade Allan Crabbe to the Nets but they brought back Andrew Nicholson who had 3 year & $21 million left on his deal but they waived and stretched right away to get under the tax threshold.

They had no choice to but to give McCollum the max that year after paying Turner, Crabbe, Leonard, and Harkless like that. He signed for 4 years and $106 million. Here are there other deals from the summer of 2016...

Maurice Harkless - 4 years/$40 million
Meyers Leonard - 4 years/$41 million
Allen Crabbe - 4 years/$75 million
Evan Turner - 4 years/$70 million
Festus Ezeli - 2 years/$15 million

They were lucky they maxed out Lillard in 2015 and made the trade for Nurkic also. I'm surprised they were able to keep him. I think they got lucky bigs weren't getting paid this year because he's been big for them but they signed him for 4 years/$40 million guaranteed. He does have another $8 million he can get in incentives throughout the duration of that deal. They were below 500 when they traded for him 2 years ago and he helped get them back into the playoffs in 2017 and helped them make the postseason again this last year. He's only making as much as Leonard and Harkless though. They somehow got him in trade from Denver in 2017 with a 1st round pick for Mason Plumlee. I think that deal is the only reason their GM hasn't been run out of town. His name is Neil Olshey but I think that could be an alias Isaiah Thomas is using because Thomas and Billy King are the only other GM's who have made such bad signings. He managed to do it all in 1 offseason for the most part though. They still got 2 more years of Turner, Leonard, and Harkless.

 

[Mainstreet]

That's why I'm surprised they haven't blown things up. Portland fans should have filed a restraining order against their GM to get him away from the team entirely. He handed out some of the worst contracts in the league all on his own when the cap spiked. Not only did they sign some players to ridiculous contracts but they've also lost some players because they overpaid their own guys so much. They've had to let Napier go in free agency and they traded away Noah Vonleh for cash. They did trade Allan Crabbe to the Nets but they brought back Andrew Nicholson who had 3 year & $21 million left on his deal but they waived and stretched right away to get under the tax threshold.

They had no choice to but to give McCollum the max that year after paying Turner, Crabbe, Leonard, and Harkless like that. He signed for 4 years and $106 million. Here are there other deals from the summer of 2016...

Maurice Harkless - 4 years/$40 million
Meyers Leonard - 4 years/$41 million
Allen Crabbe - 4 years/$75 million
Evan Turner - 4 years/$70 million
Festus Ezeli - 2 years/$15 million

They were lucky they maxed out Lillard in 2015 and made the trade for Nurkic also. I'm surprised they were able to keep him. I think they got lucky bigs weren't getting paid this year because he's been big for them but they signed him for 4 years/$40 million guaranteed. He does have another $8 million he can get in incentives throughout the duration of that deal. They were below 500 when they traded for him 2 years ago and he helped get them back into the playoffs in 2017 and helped them make the postseason again this last year. He's only making as much as Leonard and Harkless though. They somehow got him in trade from Denver in 2017 with a 1st round pick for Mason Plumlee. I think that deal is the only reason their GM hasn't been run out of town. His name is Neil Olshey but I think that could be an alias Isaiah Thomas is using because Thomas and Billy King are the only other GM's who have made such bad signings. He managed to do it all in 1 offseason for the most part though. They still got 2 more years of Turner, Leonard, and Harkless.

I agree getting Nurkic and a first round pick for Plumlee was a steal. That trade is probably keeping them afloat.

And then their GM gets lucky no one gets into a bidding war over Nurkic in free agency. If the Suns had not drafted a center, they should have pursued Nurkic or Capela.

I'm not sure what the Trail Blazers were thinking about Leonard.

 

[Mainstreet]

Looking back on Portland's roster, they must have felt they had the right pieces to make a run at a championship because they wanted to lock up their players long term, which at the time, looked like reasonable contracts.

Maybe the Suns are thinking the same thing except they do not have the heavy load of salaries.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

 

[Hoop Head]

Looking back on Portland's roster, they must have felt they had the right pieces to make a run at a championship because they wanted to lock up their players long term, which at the time, looked like reasonable contracts.

Maybe the Suns are thinking the same thing except they do not have the heavy load of salaries.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

I don't think they were reasonable deals. I can kind of see them matching Crabbe's offer from the Nets and retaining him but Turner and Leonard are head scratchers. They lost Batum who was paid about the same as Turner and he was/is a better player. I think they were still reeling from Aldridge leaving and wanted to lock in everyone they had while they could. They did make the playoffs with Aldridge the year before in a surprising season. Perhaps they thought that team could grow rather than them being lucky, like what happened. It's not too different from Hornacek's good first year here only they decided to go all in on keeping that roster together.

 

[Hoop Head]

Looking back on Portland's roster, they must have felt they had the right pieces to make a run at a championship because they wanted to lock up their players long term, which at the time, looked like reasonable contracts.

Maybe the Suns are thinking the same thing except they do not have the heavy load of salaries.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

Funny how Sidery is now preaching patience. Wasn't he calling for a big trade to happen a couple weeks ago for Leonard? That's part of why I miss Bordow. When he throws out an opinion, it stays consistent for the most part. He doesn't change it based on the week and what people are asking him. Sidery has been all over the place this offseason though. I know he's called for win now moves a couple of times and now he's saying people should be patient. I think he pitched a Kevin Love trade or two as well as a Kawhi deal. Both would be with eye towards competing now.

Before training camp starts I'd bet he makes one more shortsighted pitches for the Suns to improve immediately. One of them won't make any sense and the other would be impossible because the player targeted isn't available. The player not available will probably be Lillard and the move that doesn't make sense will be Jimmy Butler.

 

[Mainstreet]

Funny how Sidery is now preaching patience. Wasn't he calling for a big trade to happen a couple weeks ago for Leonard? That's part of why I miss Bordow. When he throws out an opinion, it stays consistent for the most part. He doesn't change it based on the week and what people are asking him. Sidery has been all over the place this offseason though. I know he's called for win now moves a couple of times and now he's saying people should be patient. I think he pitched a Kevin Love trade or two as well as a Kawhi deal. Both would be with eye towards competing now.

Before training camp starts I'd bet he makes one more shortsighted pitches for the Suns to improve immediately. One of them won't make any sense and the other would be impossible because the player targeted isn't available. The player not available will probably be Lillard and the move that doesn't make sense will be Jimmy Butler.

I think Sidery likes the dramatic. When I get bored I read him to be entertained.

He does include some good material on occasion but I take it with a grain of salt.

Bordow is very realistic but he is also on vacation. LMAO

 

[Hoop Head]

I think Sidery likes the dramatic. When I get bored I read him to be entertained.

He does include some good material on occasion but I take it with a grain of salt.

Bordow is very realistic but he is also on vacation. LMAO

Yeah, toughest stretch of the year. August is brutal. Football season can't start soon enough. At least that will distract me until the season starts. I don't like baseball so I've just been reading up on everything basketball related I can find. At least last offseason had the Kyrie trade demand this late in the offseason so there was a lot going on in the league to distract us from it being over 2 months until the season starts.