New front page story: "The Graves Plan"

[Lex]

Good job Ed. I too think some of the percentages are a little high, but then again, I think we're in for a 2-3 win season.

I think the Graves plan entails building for 2006. Imagine opening day in the best new NFL venue in the country, with 27,000 fans in attendance. Scary thought if you own the franchise eh?

Since the free agency period was a complete and utter failure, I see no way for us to spend our cap money unless we pay current players now, instead of in the comming years. This will help us 2-3 years down the road, but we will suck this year, and next. This tack could also backfire, if these players don't pan out, then we wasted this cap money.

Graves does have a plan. It'll be interesting to see how long the fans will be patient. I think most fans expect to see results this year, while in reality, this could very well be a 3 year plan.

ASU took away about half of the parking for Cardinal games through the remainder of the agreement at SDS. That's 1/2 of what there was, which wasn't enough for 30,000 fans. These last three years at SDS will be pretty pathetic.

 

[azsports]

Great article Ed. Very well written. Hope we get the 11 wins.

 

[Sandan]

Lex, I have to agree with Ed.

We could be in for a 3-5 win season or a 10-12 win season nobody knows, least of all me.

The is evidence to support both positions the reality is that given our retooling with vets there are just too many variables to predict the outcome with even the normal NFL level of accuracy (with is low at the best of times).

As a fan I'm hoping for the best but fearing the worst.

 

[Sandan]

I should have added that I agree, this is not a 1 year plan.

 

[Skkorpion]

I am far more confident in our WRs than ED IS. However, I think our defensive scheme and coaches are our weak links, so like Ed, I see a 6-10 record as the most likely outcome.

If Graves had been able to bring in Colvin and Holliday, as per plan, we'd have better personnel but I'm not sure this defensive coaching staff would have used them properly.

 

[Sandan]

Why do you think FA was a complete and utter failure ?

While I don't think he is the second coming, I think we may have got the best QB on the market and I liked Ed's comments aboutt 2 RB coachs on the staff.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Originally posted by nidan
Why do you think FA was a complete and utter failure ?

While I don't think he is the second coming, I think we may have got the best QB on the market and I liked Ed's comments aboutt 2 RB coachs on the staff.

I think it was failure for the following reasons. We have had a glaring weakness at rushing the passer for years and although we brought guys in to help alleviate that, the goal of getting osmeone to put the heat on the guy though FA wasn't accomplished. Next, we didn't have algaring need at WR until Boston was let go (for nothing) which added another glaring need - which wasn't addressed through free agency.

We got a retread QB - who while I'm happy he's not Jake, is nothing "special", we picked up a 33 year old running back who hasn't had a good season for two years and has taken more wear and tear on his body than any other running back in recent memory - only to replace a young fresh RB, who broke out last season and showed that he could possibly be the future.

FB was a good pick-up, but he is a complementray player. Darling was a good depth pick-up and I actually hope he pushes McKinnon out of his spot(which will just be one more FA blunder - i.e. extending your MLB contract for millions of dollars only to have him riding pine - actually much lie Shipp - although I think Shipp should be the starter). Jackson, I like the pick-up, but also a complimentary player, in that anyone's performance in the secondary is directly linked to D-Line play.

So - our three biggest needs going into FA were D-Line, QB, and WR - we accomplished absolutely nothing on two of those needs and signed Jeff Blake for the other one - probably the best we could do given the circumstances of the free agent QB crop this year - but still nothing to get all that excited about.

I firmly believe with an impact WR and a bona-fide pass rusher, which with the money we still have left seems to show we could have and should gotten both if NFL Players of that magnitude believed in Graves' plan as much as people on the board do, that this team could have contended for the playoffs THIS year, as well as not having to waste a pick on a reciever - hell we could have done whatever we wanted with the sixth pick to strengthen the team. Our failure in Free Agency has had a trickle down effect on everything else this team has done - which in my opinion just takes us right back to the bottom of the barrel rebuilding stage.

 

[Stout]

Originally posted by Skkorpion
Stout, what cave have you been buried in? We beat Colvin's best offer by $3.5 mill on the bonus side and over $500,000 per year on the salary side, if memory serves me correctly.

And then we offered way more for Holliday than anyone else did.

Like it or not, Graves had a plan, was willing to way overspend to make it work but the players didn't want to come here.

You can trot out your tired "Bidwill is cheap" mantra all you want but in this case, you're just wrong.

Skkorp, I don't recall, but I don't think our offer to Colvin was THAT high.

At any rate, it doesn't matter. I give him kudos for trying to get those guys.

And I do think Bidwill told Graves to keep a bit tight in the purse strings. Not too badly, as we made huge strides from our usually abysmal spending streak, but IMO it was a factor. And, in this case, YOU are just wrong. Why? Am I necessarily right? No, no one but the organization would be able to answer that. Is saying that I'm just wrong correct? Resoundingly no, because you can't know that.

Bottom line, though, is that our biggest need area was the defensive line. We added no DT depth or starters, which I and others felt needed at least one starting-quality body, and we added only Pace to the pass-rush scheme, realistically. MAYBE Pace will pan out, and, with far longer odds, MAYBE one of the project picks will as well, but the fact is, we failed to adequately address the D-line. I'm not blaming the organization for it much, since there were extenuating circumstances, but sooner or later, ONE OF THESE YEARS, it has to be taken care of.

And if we're building for 2006, I'll throw up. You cannot build that long-term in today's NFL. The salary cap and FA prohibit just that.

 

[Lex]

Complete and utter failure because we're hanging our hats on a safety, while there are 13 unsigned starting safety's currently looking for work.

We signed a quarterback for 20% of what our veteran QB would have made, which could be a good move financially, but in no way did we upgrade that position.

We signed an over the hill superstar to sell tickets, and promised him the starting job over our own guy that had a higher YPC last season.

We got some fillers, and special teamers.

We failed miserably at addressing our #1 most important need. Pass rush. Then, on top of failing to convince any free agent rushers to come here, regardless of salary, we fail to select the best pass rusher in the draft, where players are FORCED to come here and play.

To sum up...we have not improved the worst pass rush in the league for 2 consecutive seasons, because we let our starting quarterback, running back, and all three starting recievers go, we HAD to replace them. Now we're left with the same pathetic pass rush we've had, and our offense is now just as bad as the defense.

 

[RedStorm]

Originally posted by Ed B
As I said before, it's not really all that optimistic.

If the WRs are terrible and the pass rush does not improve markedly, it's a 5-11 team, and I stated as much.

I think your insinuation that Graves has a plan. I have seen just as many bone head moves by Graves to have me question whether he has a plan or not. (Or if he has one, how viable it is).

I do agree that the WR are a very big question mark. I like the guys who filled in last year but no one has proven to be number one. Secondly, our pass rush has not been addressed (unless Pace is your answer). Mac was quoted a few weeks ago and their was an article on it at AZCENTRAL.COM that said we have to get more with quanity than quality. Mac said that we would have to scheme our defense instead of relying on quality players. Well, schemeing only gets so far in the NFL. Once teams figure us out (after a game or two) we are toast.

I think Blake is far, far better than Jake. I have been a Jake supporter but it is time to go a different direction. No more said here on that. But, Blake will give us options we did not have before. However, with a lacking WR corp Blake could be handcuffed. We just may see more out of Freddie Jones which could add a whole new dimension. (about time).

Our OL and RBs will be our greatest strength but it might be under utillized if our D can not stop anyone and we have no pass rush. That is why I , like others, have been banging the "WE MUST ADDRESS THE PASS RUSH" drum. Graves has not done that and it does not look like we will be able to after June 1 (Howdy Doody Time)

So, I guess I dumped here but I guess I agree with you but I question whether or not Graves even has a plan.....

 

[Cheesebeef]

Originally posted by RedStorm
I think your insinuation that Graves has a plan. I have seen just as many bone head moves by Graves to have me question whether he has a plan or not. (Or if he has one, how viable it is).

I do agree that the WR are a very big question mark. I like the guys who filled in last year but no one has proven to be number one. Secondly, our pass rush has not been addressed (unless Pace is your answer). Mac was quoted a few weeks ago and their was an article on it at AZCENTRAL.COM that said we have to get more with quanity than quality. Mac said that we would have to scheme our defense instead of relying on quality players. Well, schemeing only gets so far in the NFL. Once teams figure us out (after a game or two) we are toast.

I think Blake is far, far better than Jake. I have been a Jake supporter but it is time to go a different direction. No more said here on that. But, Blake will give us options we did not have before. However, with a lacking WR corp Blake could be handcuffed. We just may see more out of Freddie Jones which could add a whole new dimension. (about time).

Our OL and RBs will be our greatest strength but it might be under utillized if our D can not stop anyone and we have no pass rush. That is why I , like others, have been banging the "WE MUST ADDRESS THE PASS RUSH" drum. Graves has not done that and it does not look like we will be able to after June 1 (Howdy Doody Time)

So, I guess I dumped here but I guess I agree with you but I question whether or not Graves even has a plan.....

I agree about Graves' plan or lack thereof. Just cause someone says they have something doesn't make it so. Do you guys hoenstly believe that Fergie didn't have a plan? Do you think that his plan wasn't to build the best Defense in the league? I remember before '98 thinking the D will have to carry this team during the early season and was pretty well put togetehr.

Every GM comes in with a plan. To think Graves is the first to come to this tem with one and make it seem like he is sooo different than every other GM we've had is naive in my opinion. And you know what, whatever plan he's had so far, he's failed at - he specifically said he would address the D-Line - which meant he put the burden of responsibilty on himself and what happened in Free Agency? He opened up his checkbook wider than anyone else to some players, and in essence the Players told him - I DON'T BELIEVE IN YOUR PLAN - or better put I don't believe in you! Fans can believe in his "plan" all they want, but if players we desperately need don't - THEN HIS PLAN DON'T MEAN SQUAT!

 

[Russ Smith]

Originally posted by Lex
We signed a quarterback for 20% of what our veteran QB would have made, which could be a good move financially, but in no way did we upgrade that position.

We signed an over the hill superstar to sell tickets, and promised him the starting job over our own guy that had a higher YPC last season.


To sum up...we have not improved the worst pass rush in the league for 2 consecutive seasons, because we let our starting quarterback, running back, and all three starting recievers go, we HAD to replace them. Now we're left with the same pathetic pass rush we've had, and our offense is now just as bad as the defense.

You don't think Blake is an upgrade over Jake? It's a huge upgrade IF we were actually using the saved cap money, but even if Blake were paid exactly what Jake made last year, it's an upgrade unless he suddenly starts to turn the ball over at the rate Jake did.

I think the pass rush should improve just because of Bryant, Johnson and Pace, 2 guys with talent in their 2nd year and one rookie. I don't expect the Steel Curtain mind you but let's face it we've been starting backups at just about every position on the DL since Rice left. I would have felt a LOT better if we had somehow gotten Robertson out of the draft, but I'm holding out hope that we found a good one in Pace I'm a lot less negative on him than I was right after the draft.

I am worried about backup QB and I'm worried about how many of our OL's will be healthy seems like they're all coming off surgery. WR is a crapshoot if the young guys come through fine, if they don't, look out below.

 

[Ed B]

Originally posted by cheesebeef
I agree about Graves' plan or lack thereof. Just cause someone says they have something doesn't make it so. Do you guys hoenstly believe that Fergie didn't have a plan?

No, Ferguson didn't. We signed free agents and drafted willy-nilly and, consequently, never had a "strength" on the team.

At some point you have to say "OK we're going to go cheap at one position and focus our resources on XYZ". Ferguson never did that.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Originally posted by Ed B
No, Ferguson didn't. We signed free agents and drafted willy-nilly and, consequently, never had a "strength" on the team.

At some point you have to say "OK we're going to go cheap at one position and focus our resources on XYZ". Ferguson never did that.

Oh no? What the hell do you think the "Cactus Curtain" was Supposed to be? That was supposed to Carry the Defense and the team. After that, what was the whole Let's Copy the Vikings thing when we got Boston, drafted L.J. and Anthony Clement, Thomas Jones and Tagged Rob Moore in order to make our offense unstoppable? I mean there the plan was let's surround Jake with the most talent possible and make this offense so good it will overtake glaring weaknesses on the defense. No you may not like that plan, BUT IT IS A PLAN.

When it was apparent the Defense was never gonn be what he hoped it would, he threw all the money at the offense, basically saying "OK we're going to go cheap at defense and focus our resources on Offense and it will carry us."

Granted, both plans didn't work, but that doesn't mean they weren't exist.

 

[conraddobler]

I don't think spending to the cap is all that big of a deal they tried to spend the money and no one wanted to come.

I absolutely agree that the plan is to be good when the stadium opens they would have to be complete idiots to get that wrong. It is also quite possible they will enjoy sitting on the extra $ to help fund the stadium deal. None of this really makes it certain that we have to be bad this year. More than likely I see some moderate success.

The Ducks spent roughly half of what the Redwings did in hockey and who is watching now? This happens all the time in all sports especially those without caps. In the NFL see the Redskins for proof that money isn't the sole answer. It's team building first.

They tried to get people they wanted and passed on the rest thats how you build a team. Restructuring deals is a really big step up from the past so it looks like things have turned.

Our talent on defense is getting better but not there yet and that will lose us most of our games this year however we are really only one more year out on fixing that and then I see a solid team that you would be more likely to spend money on for spending sake than this one.

 

[Sandan]

I made no comments that I was excited about it, but a "Complete and Utter Failure"

No way, I see upgrades all over the place.

Could we have done more in some areas, maybe, maybe not.

 

[Russ Smith]

Originally posted by cheesebeef
Oh no? What the hell do you think the "Cactus Curtain" was Supposed to be? That was supposed to Carry the Defense and the team. After that, what was the whole Let's Copy the Vikings thing when we got Boston, drafted L.J. and Anthony Clement, Thomas Jones and Tagged Rob Moore in order to make our offense unstoppable? I mean there the plan was let's surround Jake with the most talent possible and make this offense so good it will overtake glaring weaknesses on the defense. No you may not like that plan, BUT IT IS A PLAN.

When it was apparent the Defense was never gonn be what he hoped it would, he threw all the money at the offense, basically saying "OK we're going to go cheap at defense and focus our resources on Offense and it will carry us."

Granted, both plans didn't work, but that doesn't mean they weren't exist.

I actually completely agree it was pretty clear in '98 that the Cards decided they were ok on defense and were going to start building around Jake. The high picks, the FA's were all offensive.

The problem was, when Swann's knee, Andre's knee, Smith's knee etc started to add up, Fergie never ADAPTED. He just kept building the offense and ignoring his defense and suddenly one day he woke up with the worst defense in the NFL. THat's when it became so obvious that we'd made a mistake on Jake because with all that money we still didn't have a good offense and had spent all that money assuming the key was Jake.

Fergie had a plan but he had no plan B.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Originally posted by nidan
I made no comments that I was excited about it, but a "Complete and Utter Failure"

No way, I see upgrades all over the place.

Could we have done more in some areas, maybe, maybe not.

Like I said, we did upgrade a couple positions, but in order for those upgrades to make an impact they are completely dependent on other facets of both the offense and defensive, namely a pass rush and a receiving corps - neither of which were addressed IMO in FA. That point really can't be argue otherwise.

A "complete and utter failure"? No, but still a failure in my eyes.

Do you agree that the upgrades - namely Jackson and Hodgins are depedent on opposing defenses having to honor the pass and not stacking the box with 8, as well as the pass rush getting pressure so our DBs aren't in coverage for three minutes?

 

[Cheesebeef]

Originally posted by Russ Smith
I actually completely agree it was pretty clear in '98 that the Cards decided they were ok on defense and were going to start building around Jake. The high picks, the FA's were all offensive.

The problem was, when Swann's knee, Andre's knee, Smith's knee etc started to add up, Fergie never ADAPTED. He just kept building the offense and ignoring his defense and suddenly one day he woke up with the worst defense in the NFL. THat's when it became so obvious that we'd made a mistake on Jake because with all that money we still didn't have a good offense and had spent all that money assuming the key was Jake.

Fergie had a plan but he had no plan B.

That I completely agree with. I still think that Fergie was so pig-headed to believe his offense was going to turn it around though. I mean do you remember him staking his job on our O-line when we were down 21-0 vs. the Eagles on opening day in 1999. Yeah we came back to win that game, but the O-line sucked all year long, but you never heard Fergie make another mention of him staking his job to them.

I'm not saying Ferguson did a good job over the course of his tenure with us - but to say that Garves is the first guy with a plan here is mind-boggling - Fergie's plan sucked and then he just continued diving deeper and deeper into it.

 

[Ed B]

Ferguson's plans were always 4-year rebuilding projects.

You mean to tell me that anyone in the history of this organization has come in and revamped the roster as quickly as Graves has? He's only been the GM for 5 months! And this is almost a completely different team!

 

[kerouac9]

Originally posted by Ed B
Ferguson's plans were always 4-year rebuilding projects.

You mean to tell me that anyone in the history of this organization has come in and revamped the roster as quickly as Graves has? He's only been the GM for 5 months! And this is almost a completely different team!

It's easy to re-build when you simply let all your un-restricted free agents leave.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Originally posted by kerouac9
It's easy to re-build when you simply let all your un-restricted free agents leave.

I was going to say that but it was going to be much more long-winded. Granted, most of those guys needed to go, but he was forced to build, it wasn't like he restructured a bunch of deals, got cap space, got impact players on the team and added to whatever core we already had. Well, here I go, so now i'm going to stop.

 

[ajcardfan]

Originally posted by Ed B
It's amazing that we're actually in a position to be unable to spend the minimum cap......after so many years of seemingly being over it.

With typical Cardinals luck, the year we are truly loaded for bear on the free agent market, it is subpar. And, we whiff on our top two choices. Then, the June 1st free agent market is probably the worst in history.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Originally posted by ajcardfan
With typical Cardinals luck, the year we are truly loaded for bear on the free agent market, it is subpar. And, we whiff on our top two choices. Then, the June 1st free agent market is probably the worst in history.

yeah, that sucks too.

 

[Ed B]

I have to agree. Bad luck.

No stars at WR or DE, and that's just what we needed. All that's left now are the dregs of the earth, basically.

The real killer, and we all said this at the time (except for Tango, of course) was losing out on Colvin. That was our big target and, financially, we thought we had him. He was the only real instant pass rush threat available.