New Zealand Breakers at Suns, 10-3-18 (preseason)

[sunsfan88]

If you lose a TE, it might hurt your chances that season. When you lose your QB, it could well change the future of your franchise. And defensive players have been taught for decades to drive that QB into the ground, so yeah, I'm in favor of changing the rules. That doesn't mean I like every change and it doesn't mean they don't go a little too far at times.



Go back and watch the way this game was played in the 60's, 70's and early 80's and then tell me about old school basketball.



I can't stand the way they are allowing offensive stars to use contact to their benefit, I've complained about it often. I'm not pushing for more offense, I'm pushing for skilled basketball over bully ball.

It's not just about driving the QB into the ground, many times that is the only way to bring the QBs down when rushing the passer and you have a 300 lb linemen trying to cut you off in the process. Especially against the big guys like Ben, Newton, Luck etc, simply trying to arm tackle them won't necessarily work.

Again, I support changing the rules to protect helmet hits and such but anything else, it's just too far imo.

And I suppose you're referring to the times of plays like these?

http://imageshack.us/a/img688/1897/michaeljordanthelegendo.gif

http://imageshack.us/a/img259/1897/michaeljordanthelegendo.gif


In both plays, MJ gets "fouled" (by today's rules) multiple times before even entering the paint.

And then many examples of actually having to work hard for a bucket here as well;

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[Phrazbit]

The NBA went through a phase where defenders were allowed to be so aggressive and spacing rules so stupid that it rendered the league almost unwatchable. Jordan retired and we watched a lot of terrible basketball. Teams winning games scoring in the mid 80s, walking the ball down the court and not starting your offensive set until under 10 seconds left was an actual effective strategy, because if you played aggressive on offense you'd just get bulldozed and turn the ball over.

I'd never want to go back to that brand of basketball. The league was largely unwatchable. I hated the Lakers, but the Lakers and the Kings were just about the only teams in the early 2000s and late 90s that did not play an absolutely putrid style of basketball.

Even the Jason Kidd ran Suns and Nets, I bet if we watched one of those games today, outside of a couple beautiful lob passes, we'd be bored to tears.

 

[Yuma]

I remember games back in the seventies. Lots of time the scores were like 120 to 118. People talk about the three pointer and how the offenses have really opened up now, but even with hand checking back then, guys were way better at the intermediate baskets. Not everything was a dunk try or a three. There was actual shooting. Having grown up watching that, offenses actually seem less accurate now.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/PHO/1970_games.html

There's a game in there where the Suns scored 149 points. Look down the list at the scores. 120's, 130's, were not uncommon. People don't remember those days, and they think I am crazy when I tell them scoring in the NBA has gone down!

 

[Phrazbit]

I remember games back in the seventies. Lots of time the scores were like 120 to 118. People talk about the three pointer and how the offenses have really opened up now, but even with hand checking back then, guys were way better at the intermediate baskets. Not everything was a dunk try or a three. There was actual shooting. Having grown up watching that, offenses actually seem less accurate now.

It's not just hand checking, it's pulverizing guys in the lane. Somehow the refs started calling the game as though as long as a defender got their hand on the ball they could then flatten the offensive player.

If you watch those games from the 70s those dudes got a LOT of space to shoot. Defending was about cutting off passes and driving lanes, not putting your body on other players. The thuggery started with the Pistons in the late 80s, then Mike Fratello's Cavs teams and the 90s Knicks took it to new levels, followed by bad coaches thinking the only way to beat it was letting players go one on one in isolation because refs let players do anything in a crowd.

I'll take the current league over the way teams of 10-20 years ago exploited the old rules any day.

Players like Harden do make a mockery of the new system, getting free throws because they flail like fish anytime a defender puts their arm out. I do wish the league could crack down on that crap. But I will still take that over dudes like Ron Artest, Bruce Bowen and Doug Christie being considered great defenders because they can club people and get away with it. In the modern NBA those dudes would struggle to stick in a rotation.

The league needs to start enforcing the flopping reviews they claimed were coming into effect a couple years ago.

 

[Yuma]

It's not just hand checking, it's pulverizing guys in the lane. Somehow the refs started calling the game as though as long as a defender got their hand on the ball they could then flatten the offensive player.

If you watch those games from the 70s those dudes got a LOT of space to shoot. Defending was about cutting off passes and driving lanes, not putting your body on other players. The thuggery started with the Pistons in the late 80s, then Mike Fratello's Cavs teams and the 90s Knicks took it to new levels, followed by bad coaches thinking the only way to beat it was letting players go one on one in isolation because refs let players do anything in a crowd.

I'll take the current league over the way teams of 10-20 years ago exploited the old rules any day.

Players like Harden do make a mockery of the new system, getting free throws because they flail like fish anytime a defender puts their arm out. I do wish the league could crack down on that crap. But I will still take that over dudes like Ron Artest, Bruce Bowen and Doug Christie being considered great defenders because they can club people and get away with it. In the modern NBA those dudes would struggle to stick in a rotation.

The league needs to start enforcing the flopping reviews they claimed were coming into effect a couple years ago.

I know what you are saying. I'm saying even with hand checking in the seventies, scores were way higher. Guys didn't dribble in one spot long enough to hand check. There were some bad things about seventies ball. Like every team had a thug at the end of the bench to use their 6 fouls, "judiciously."