No Country for Old Men

[Gizmo Williams]

Yes it is not far fetched at all that a guy could start mass killing people including cops and there would be no media or police attention outside of an old sherrif who doesn't want to get involved anyway.

You honestly don't believe that do you?

The movie is full of symbolism that most people seem to be missing. I mentioned earlier that I do not think Chigurh was just a normal person, he represented something greater than just your everyday psycopath.

While I thought the movie worked with just a casual viewing, it was effective in creating suspense on par or better than most recent movies. However, there was a lot more to the movie than meets the eye. For example, I read that the scene where Llewyn is chased by the dogs has more meaning to it than just him being chased by a dog. The river represents Styx and the dog is Cerberus...the hellhound who guards Hades to make sure that dead souls enter Hades but cannot leave and to make sure no living soul enters.

There really was a whole other subtext to the movie if you really pay attention....I need to watch it one more time.

 

[Shane]

Yes it is not far fetched at all that a guy could start mass killing people including cops and there would be no media or police attention outside of an old sherrif who doesn't want to get involved anyway.

You honestly don't believe that do you?

First off the mass killing didnt start off right way from my memory of the movie. It was a loley sheriff in the middle of nowhere Texas and one citizen in a car also in the middle of nowhere.

I do not believe that a cop in a rural area would be big news by BIG MEDIA because it isnt even today when it happens. Much less in 1980.

However Im sure there would have media attention at least from the surrounding towns and maybe a small blurb in teh big city newspapers. However the movie didnt focus on that nor did they need to for the storyline.

They did clearly state in the movie that the DEA was involved in the case. They just didnt show that angle. The movie and investigation was shown from Tommy L Jones character.

Of course some of it is farfetched. Its a movie.

 

[Shane]

The way he went into the motel room where it was stored, after telling the next door tenant to call the police. Plus he pointedly asked the other investigating policeman in the diner if any money had been found. Kind of like throwing the suspicion off him and seeing how the officer felt about not finding any money. Add to that, Chigurh said he would kill the woman at the end of the movie if he DIDN'T get the money. Plus, the sheriff retired early, before his scheduled retirement date, which would affect his pension.

First it was pretty clear that the money was stored in the air conditioning vent when he returned the second time to the crime scene. Chigurh returned and got the money out of the vent and was still in the adjoining room when the Sheriff arrived.

The sheriff would not have had the time to get the money out and into his car at a scene like that in a decent sized city with th overwhelming police presence that would have arrived there in very quick fashion. He certainly wouldnt have had time to look for it and remove an AC vent with a coin and then get the bag back to his car which was a good distance form the room. Taking the time to unscrew all four screws would be WAY to long.

Chigurh didnt say he would kill her if he didnt get his money. He said he would kill her if he had to come after him to get it. He stated that he would give him the cahnce to bring it to him and only he would die. He stated that if he had to come after him he would kill her too.

The Sheriff was old to begin with. Had been doing the job for a LONG time. Just because he retired early IMO isnt a clue of getting the money. More of aclue of being fed up.

 

[Yuma]

First it was pretty clear that the money was stored in the air conditioning vent when he returned the second time to the crime scene. Chigurh returned and got the money out of the vent and was still in the adjoining room when the Sheriff arrived.

The sheriff would not have had the time to get the money out and into his car at a scene like that in a decent sized city with th overwhelming police presence that would have arrived there in very quick fashion. He certainly wouldnt have had time to look for it and remove an AC vent with a coin and then get the bag back to his car which was a good distance form the room. Taking the time to unscrew all four screws would be WAY to long.

Chigurh didnt say he would kill her if he didnt get his money. He said he would kill her if he had to come after him to get it. He stated that he would give him the cahnce to bring it to him and only he would die. He stated that if he had to come after him he would kill her too.

The Sheriff was old to begin with. Had been doing the job for a LONG time. Just because he retired early IMO isnt a clue of getting the money. More of aclue of being fed up.

Then why would the sheriff go BACK to the motel room, and continue to search it after he looked at the unscrewed vent? He didn't look in the vent, either. Why? He KNEW there wasn't anything in it. I think he went back to the motel to try and kill Chigurh instead of having to always look over his shoulder for the day when Chigurh would show up, or take anyone he loved hostage. That's why he continued to look in the motel to see where Chigurh was hiding. He looked at the door before going in and it was obvious someone had been in there, or was STILL in there! He was going to end it once and for all. I think that's why he looked wistfully before leaving the motel room. It was kind of like he expected or felt Chigurh there, and then didn't find him, he missed his chance.

I also think that's why they made such a big deal at the end of the movie at how he retired before anyone expected. Even if you are burned out, why retire before your full pension amount when you know you are close to getting it?

See, this is why I liked the movie. They left a lot up to the individual viewer's interpretation. They never showed Chigurh with the money. For that matter they never showed the Sheriff with the money either.

I think if the Sheriff knew it was in the vent, why wouldn't he look up at the vent at the wall? He purposefully looked at the vent grate on the floor. How did he know it was there without looking at the vent up at the ceiling?

 

[Cheesebeef]

Then why would the sheriff go BACK to the motel room, and continue to search it after he looked at the unscrewed vent? He didn't look in the vent, either. Why? He KNEW there wasn't anything in it. I think he went back to the motel to try and kill Chigurh instead of having to always look over his shoulder for the day when Chigurh would show up, or take anyone he loved hostage. That's why he continued to look in the motel to see where Chigurh was hiding. He looked at the door before going in and it was obvious someone had been in there, or was STILL in there! He was going to end it once and for all. I think that's why he looked wistfully before leaving the motel room. It was kind of like he expected or felt Chigurh there, and then didn't find him, he missed his chance.

wow, do I have a completely different opinion of what happened there. The Sherrif didn't miss his chance. He knew his chance was in there and he passed it up "to live another day" because he knew that if he confronted Chigur, he was a dead man. Then, in the ultimate twist of irony, as he lived his other days, he basically wished he was dead anyway, as his dreams foretold, shivering in the storm (which is what society had become) just waiting to get to other side to be with his father (or waiting to die to get to heaven).

I also think that's why they made such a big deal at the end of the movie at how he retired before anyone expected. Even if you are burned out, why retire before your full pension amount when you know you are close to getting it?

See, this is why I liked the movie. They left a lot up to the individual viewer's interpretation. They never showed Chigurh with the money. For that matter they never showed the Sheriff with the money either.

I think if the Sheriff knew it was in the vent, why wouldn't he look up at the vent at the wall? He purposefully looked at the vent grate on the floor. How did he know it was there without looking at the vent up at the ceiling?

if the Sherrif made any move toward the vent, he was dead and he knew it. As for my reasoning in how the Sherriff knew he was still in the room? He walks into the bathroom and the Coen's made a point of him recognizing that the bathroom window latch was closed, meaning there was no way he could have escaped out the back (because who would have latched the window in that case? trust me, there's a reason for every shot in that scene) He also knew that Chigur wouldn't have left the vent sitting there on the ground afterward to raise eyebrows, which meant he hadn't finished in the room yet.

The Sherrif knew he was in there and he was facing his own mortality with whatever decision he made. Face death and keep your pride or swallow it and live another day? He decided to live another day and then regretted it the rest of his life. Basically screwed if you do and screwed if you don't. Like his Uncle said, "You can't stop what's coming." Love that movie. Damn it was bleak.

 

[Stout]

Then why would the sheriff go BACK to the motel room, and continue to search it after he looked at the unscrewed vent? He didn't look in the vent, either. Why? He KNEW there wasn't anything in it. I think he went back to the motel to try and kill Chigurh instead of having to always look over his shoulder for the day when Chigurh would show up, or take anyone he loved hostage. That's why he continued to look in the motel to see where Chigurh was hiding. He looked at the door before going in and it was obvious someone had been in there, or was STILL in there! He was going to end it once and for all. I think that's why he looked wistfully before leaving the motel room. It was kind of like he expected or felt Chigurh there, and then didn't find him, he missed his chance.

I also think that's why they made such a big deal at the end of the movie at how he retired before anyone expected. Even if you are burned out, why retire before your full pension amount when you know you are close to getting it?

See, this is why I liked the movie. They left a lot up to the individual viewer's interpretation. They never showed Chigurh with the money. For that matter they never showed the Sheriff with the money either.

I think if the Sheriff knew it was in the vent, why wouldn't he look up at the vent at the wall? He purposefully looked at the vent grate on the floor. How did he know it was there without looking at the vent up at the ceiling?

Sorry, but your entire thesis is ruined by the fact that the Sheriff looked in the room at the end and saw that the vent had already been opened and that the coin was still sitting there. Chigur (sp?) already had the loot.

You're missing the entire point of the end of the movie, the old lawman hanging it up and passing on the torch.

 

[Cheesebeef]

hold on a second. Yuma, let me ask you this. Do you think Chigur wasn't in the room when the Sherrif came back?

If no... well, then I don't know what to tell you. They showed him behind the door waiting for him, his reflection showing up in the hole where the knob used to be.

If yes, you do think he was hiding, why the hell would he just let the Sherriff walk out of there with the money. After being an indestructible killing machine (for basically his entire life), he's just gonna let an old man, who he could dispatch of easily, to just grab his money and walk out the door? That doesn't really follow along with anything else he did during the rest of the movie.

 

[Ryanwb]

hold on a second. Yuma, let me ask you this. Do you think Chigur wasn't in the room when the Sherrif came back?

If no... well, then I don't know what to tell you. They showed him behind the door waiting for him, his reflection showing up in the hole where the knob used to be.

If yes, you do think he was hiding, why the hell would he just let the Sherriff walk out of there with the money. After being an indestructible killing machine (for basically his entire life), he's just gonna let an old man, who he could dispatch of easily, to just grab his money and walk out the door? That doesn't really follow along with anything else he did during the rest of the movie.

This is my take as well.... to add to this, I think they showed the personal side of the Sherriff as sort of a validation of his character's ethics... meaning even if the money was sitting right there, he would not have taken it.

 

[Cheesebeef]

This is my take as well.... to add to this, I think they showed the personal side of the Sherriff as sort of a validation of his character's ethics... meaning even if the money was sitting right there, he would not have taken it.

yup. I think the whole movie comes down to a study in contrast between the choices Llewellyn makes and the choices the Sherriff makes, but in the end, "you can't stop what's coming" no matter what choice you make. Llewellyn's greed led to his demise, while the Sherriff's leaving well enough alone allows him to live... although he wishes he were dead. Basically, the movie said to me: You're screwed either way. Yeah, it's bleak, but man, I thought it was devastating and something you just don't see in American cinema.

 

[Cheesebeef]

also, the reason I think this ended up being named Best Film is simple to me. IMO, there's a difference between a "movie" and a "film". Movies are made to be eaten up fast and ultimately get out of you faster, hence the term "popcorn movie", as opposed to film, which strives to be a work of art and IMO the entire purpose of art is to evoke a strong emotional reaction. A reaction that makes you think about it and talk about and debate what it means. There's no doubt that is exactly what this movie did for the majority of people who saw it. Very few just chewed this up and spat it out, for good or bad. So, yeah, IMO, that's MO!

 

[O]

also, the reason I think this ended up being named Best Film is simple to me. IMO, there's a difference between a "movie" and a "film". Movies are made to be eaten up fast and ultimately get out of you faster, hence the term "popcorn movie", as opposed to film, which strives to be a work of art and IMO the entire purpose of art is to evoke a strong emotional reaction. A reaction that makes you think about it and talk about and debate what it means. There's no doubt that is exactly what this movie did for the majority of people who saw it. Very few just chewed this up and spat it out, for good or bad. So, yeah, IMO, that's MO!

Well Said!!!
Witness the amoumt of discussion to this day about this "Film".

 

[Yuma]

See, I got an entirely different take on the whole thing. As the movie started you had Llewellyn who you knew something bad was going to happen to. You had Chigur, the bad guy. You had the sheriff who was the good guy. Somehow during the movie, you end up almost hoping the bad guy, Chigur survives, in essence he almost becomes the good guy. The good guy, the Sheriff, I had just had the feeling he was ultimately up to no good, and whereas I think he took the money, he becomes the bad guy. Llewellyn is just the tragic hero type character who is bound to do what he thinks he can despite the number of people that tell him not to do what he's doing.

See I think the Sheriff took the money because they showed him going to the motel TWICE. The second time making a point to show you how he went in BEFORE the other law enforcement showed up. In a hurry at that. He would have normally called for the police, but he tells the neighbor to do it, and then hot foots it into the motel room. Why? He saw the shooters leave, so he knew there was no one to apprehend in the motel room. Llewellen was dead outside the room. So why go in? There's nothing there for him to see. EXCEPT, he KNOWS Llewellen has the money!

 

[dogpoo32]

hold on a second. Yuma, let me ask you this. Do you think Chigur wasn't in the room when the Sherrif came back?

If no... well, then I don't know what to tell you. They showed him behind the door waiting for him, his reflection showing up in the hole where the knob used to be.

If yes, you do think he was hiding, why the hell would he just let the Sherriff walk out of there with the money. After being an indestructible killing machine (for basically his entire life), he's just gonna let an old man, who he could dispatch of easily, to just grab his money and walk out the door? That doesn't really follow along with anything else he did during the rest of the movie.

I interpreted it like this:

The sheriff looks at the lock blown out. He knows who did this, as did the viewer. At this point, his imagination gets the best of him, and he is imagining Chigur sitting there waiting for him. His pause gives him time to contemplate his next move. He is an "Old Man" in this new world of drugs and violence, and he feels lost and afraid. He went to El Paso to find Lou Ellen (sp?), but feels as though he failed. He knows entering the room means death, but he is ready. He draws his gun, so he maintains some dignity, but expects to die in there. Chigur is gone. He took the money, having completed this portion of his mission. The sheriff has led himself into a realization more than anything else. He knows this is over. Chigur will not be found or caught, and Lou Ellen is dead. All by an outside force, the Mexican. This leaves a lot to the idea of "unfinished business" and the sheriff's unease. He knows his time is over, and his last hurrah resulted in defeat because of his inability to stay up with current times. He felt dead as a sheriff, and his life as a person from then on will be haunted by this. He wanted to die in the hotel because then, he felt, he would have died on his terms, having made his choice having done his duty.

Chigur is certainly some angel of death. He is an unstoppable killing force, and none came close to killing him. Even when he was shot, he did not seem human. He represented death and its inevitability. Everyone who knew him knew this and accepted it. Except Lou Ellen, who was killed by someone else.

All in all, I loved this movie. There were so many archetypal characters that it came across as a classic story. The fact that it was a Cohen Brothers' film made it that much better. Add to that the fact that the "Desert Sands El Paso" is actually "The Desert Sands Motor Lodge" in Albuquerque, and about 5 blocks from my house, make it that much better. The beautiful high desert of New Mexico made for some nice "West Texas."

 

[dogpoo32]

See, I got an entirely different take on the whole thing. As the movie started you had Llewellyn who you knew something bad was going to happen to. You had Chigur, the bad guy. You had the sheriff who was the good guy. Somehow during the movie, you end up almost hoping the bad guy, Chigur survives, in essence he almost becomes the good guy. The good guy, the Sheriff, I had just had the feeling he was ultimately up to no good, and whereas I think he took the money, he becomes the bad guy. Llewellyn is just the tragic hero type character who is bound to do what he thinks he can despite the number of people that tell him not to do what he's doing.

Haha! I spelled it like he was a girl.

 

[dogpoo32]

See, I got an entirely different take on the whole thing. As the movie started you had Llewellyn who you knew something bad was going to happen to. You had Chigur, the bad guy. You had the sheriff who was the good guy. Somehow during the movie, you end up almost hoping the bad guy, Chigur survives, in essence he almost becomes the good guy. The good guy, the Sheriff, I had just had the feeling he was ultimately up to no good, and whereas I think he took the money, he becomes the bad guy. Llewellyn is just the tragic hero type character who is bound to do what he thinks he can despite the number of people that tell him not to do what he's doing.

See, I think the protagonist shifted from "Lou Ellen" (HAHA) to the sheriff before Lou Ellen died. Lou Ellen almost became an afterthought because Tommy Lee's character was strong enough to take over at that point. I never felt Chigur was only evil and he always seemed the antagonist.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

I watched 15 more minutes of this and it sucked so bad I stopped again.

Hey look the main character of the movie is killed off screen. Whee...

Oh the old and pointless sheriff is talking to some other old guy about crap that has nothing to do with what's going on in the movie. We had time for this hunk of crap "character development" but you couldn't actually see the main character's last stand.

This has officially moved past the "Departed" on my "most overrated movies of all time" list.

 

[Yuma]

This movie is like Fight Club. I know tons of people who could not sit through that movie. I always ask them if they made it to the final ten minutes. They all say no. Well the whole movie is leading up to those last ten minutes. Then it all makes sense. Actually, with the economy like it is now, we could use a little fight club right now!

 

[Yuma]

I thought we had different ideas of what happened in the movie. Take a look at the Internet Movie Data Base discussions:

No Country For Old Men

 

[dogpoo32]

This movie is like Fight Club. I know tons of people who could not sit through that movie. I always ask them if they made it to the final ten minutes. They all say no. Well the whole movie is leading up to those last ten minutes. Then it all makes sense. Actually, with the economy like it is now, we could use a little fight club right now!

Fight Club is my favorite movie... maybe of all time. Brad Pitt and Ed Norton are my two favorite actors, and that movie is awesome. I thought that No Country was like FC when I finished No Country. I thought maybe Chigur was an alternate personality and fabrication of Llewellyn (I first wrote Ellouise because I've done drank too much) and that it was all mucked up... but there were too many things that didn't make sense. I think it is like Fight Club in that it is a thinking man's movie, and that's a good change of pace from my usual movie... ***cough*** Superbad ***Cough***

 

[JS22]

Damnit I accidentally clicked on this thread and instantly read Yuma's spoiler.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

This movie is like Fight Club. I know tons of people who could not sit through that movie. I always ask them if they made it to the final ten minutes. They all say no. Well the whole movie is leading up to those last ten minutes. Then it all makes sense. Actually, with the economy like it is now, we could use a little fight club right now!

I just watched the end of it finally. It took 2 1/2 weeks to watch this movie and I love films. I love art films. The ending was freaking pointless. The entire movie is pointless.

Fading out after some ramble about a pointless dream? Really?

The worst part is that it took so long to watch this hunk of crap I now own it by virtue of "If you keep this movie too long you own it"

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Oh and I love Fight Club, Memento, Usual Suspects...

Good dramas. Stuff not filled with GAPING plot holes.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I watched 15 more minutes of this and it sucked so bad I stopped again.

Hey look the main character of the movie is killed off screen. Whee...

Oh the old and pointless sheriff is talking to some other old guy about crap that has nothing to do with what's going on in the movie. We had time for this hunk of crap "character development" but you couldn't actually see the main character's last stand.

i don't say this often to people, but Chris, if you really believe the Sherriff's talk with the other sherriff and his dream at the end were pointless, meaningless ramblings that had nothing to do with the movie, well, I don't know what to tell you.

And why would you bring Memento or Suspects into this convo? I see Yuma brought up Fight Club as a movie that you've got to see the last ten minutes of to get what the movie was about, and while I agree that it's the last ten minutes where the Coen's (and Cormac McCarthy's) vision is laid out pretty clearly, that's about it as far as the similarities between No Country and Fight Club. As far as Suspects or Memento, not sure why they're brought into the discussion as each one of those movies duped the viewer into watching what essentially was a lie before the big reveal that changed everything you just watched. No Country had no twist, it was about as straight forward as movies come, if unconventional in it's way to weave it's story. That just strikes me as an odd thing to say, besides the issue that there are GAPING plot holes in those movies as well (all of which I find to be relatively brilliant as well), even more so than No Country (which I don't really see as having plot holes anyway).

But to each his own.

 

[Shane]

i don't say this often to people, but Chris, if you really believe the Sherriff's talk with the other sherriff and his dream at the end were pointless, meaningless ramblings that had nothing to do with the movie, I think the movie just went over your head.

And why would you bring Memento or Suspects into this convo? I see Yuma brought up Fight Club as a love it or hate it movie, but the others, along with Fight Club really have nothing to do with No Country. Each one of those movies duped the viewer into watching what essentially was a lie before the big reveal that changed everything you just watched. No Country had no twist, it was about as straight forward as movies come, if unconventional in it's way to weave it's story. That just strikes me as an odd thing to say, besides the issue that there are GAPING plot holes in those movies as well (all of which I find to be relatively brilliant as well), even more so than No Country (which I don't really see as having plot holes anyway).

But to each his own.

The movie was fantastic cheesy!

 

[Cheesebeef]

Fading out after some ramble about a pointless dream? Really?
"

Fading out? That was a SMASH TO BLACK! Wow, you really don't know what happened at the end do you?