No excuses for Matt Leinart today

[Pariah]

It's all becoming clear why Steve Young struggled in relief of Montana.

You're right; the team should give up on him because he's not playing like a Hall of Famer.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

are we talking about the same Jeff Garcia that couldn't beat out JaMarcus Russell and Bruce Gradkowski? The one that TB let go in favor of Josh Johsnon?

 

[Chaz]

The common excuse for Matt is "not enough reps/time with the first team in our timing based offense"

It's all becoming clear why Steve Young struggled in relief of Montana.

Yea, 'cause it is totally the same thing.



While I am disappointed Matt and the offense didn't do better in the second half Sunday I don't agree that he struggled.

He missed on a couple of throws.

M.Leinart 14 10 74 1/9 0 20 0 83.6

 

[vince56]

I expected him to become a legitimate starter in this league and beat out Warner in the pre season. Not only did he not do it he looked terrible against bad teams playing pre season schemes! Were gonna have to agree to disagree that Leinart looked "good" in year one. He showed some flashes sure. But good is not the word I would use.

I have to agree with Shane (can't believe I'm saying that). Leinart looked good for the first half against the Bears and in a few series against the Chiefs. The game after the bears we traveled to Oakland and Leinart looked terrible against a bad team. The Chiefs game, Leinart had one very memorable play, the skillet-hands play. He escaped pressure on a seemingly broken play, rolled out and chucked the ball deep 60 yards to the back of the endzone for Bryant Johnson, who was too busy admiring the rafters at the top of the stadium to see the ball bounce off his chest. Perfectly thrown pass too, and Leinart hasn't thrown a good ball since his injury.

Oh and he finished his first two seasons on the injured list, never a good sign for a quarterback or any position for that matter.

Leinart has to improve, and fast, or he's going to wind up in the same breath as the Akili Smiths, Joey Harringtons, and Dave Carrs of the world.

 

[Shane]

are we talking about the same Jeff Garcia that couldn't beat out JaMarcus Russell and Bruce Gradkowski? The one that TB let go in favor of Josh Johsnon?

The one in the same. That has a back story that was talked about on TV BTW. The Raiders were going to start Russell no matter what. Garcia couldn't believe that with what he saw from Russell that he was going to be forced to sit behind him. He couldn't stomach it knowing how bad Russell was and made it known to the coaches so the cut him.

 

[MrYeahBut]

The one in the same. That has a back story that was talked about on TV BTW. The Raiders were going to start Russell no matter what. Garcia couldn't believe that with what he saw from Russell that he was going to be forced to sit behind him. He couldn't stomach it knowing how bad Russell was and made it known to the coaches so the cut him.

Which is basically saying 'his pride got in the way', and so he would rather sit home than be on a roster. Sorry, don't buy it.

 

[Shane]

Which is basically saying 'his pride got in the way', and so he would rather sit home than be on a roster. Sorry, don't buy it.

Really? Do you not buy it because it doesn't suit your side of the debate? Or do you truly NOT believe that a player with Garcia's credentials couldn't stand by and be quiet when he sees just how bad Jemarcus Russell really is?? Of course thats an ego hit.

The team IE being the Raiders did what they had to do and threw Russell out there. Can't blame them really. But I can't blame Garcia for saying I can't sit behind this garbage either.

 

[SoCal Cardfan]

You're right; the team should give up on him because he's not playing like a Hall of Famer.

I would settle for "Hall of Average" at this point.

You guys just keep being happy with a guy who has been handed a big lead 3 times this year.. and turned them all into nail-biters due to his inability to sustain a drive.

 

[Dayman]

The common excuse for Matt is "not enough reps/time with the first team in our timing based offense"

It's all becoming clear why Steve Young struggled in relief of Montana.

Steve Young first four seasons-71.3 rating 53% completion
Matt Leinart first four seasons-71.3 rating 56% completion

 

[82CardsGrad]

Steve Young first four seasons-71.3 rating 53% completion
Matt Leinart first four seasons-71.3 rating 56% completion

Please let's stop the madness... Putting Steve Young and Matt Leinart in the same sentance is just WRONG for so many reasons... Steve didn't have an all-world offense his first few seasons in the league as does Matty. Steve goes to SF, absorbs the teachings from a master (Montana) for slightly more than 3 seasons, has Rice, Taylor, Watters, and Brent Jones to work with, and by the time he takes the reigns in 1991 he is performing a MVP levels...

You can't compare Steve's first two season with Tampa Bay to what Matty has had at his disposal here in AZ. Apples and Oranges... And because of this reality, it would be quite reasonable to expect that Matty should have progressed much more quickly than did Steve because, as we all know, Matty was "the most NFL ready QB to ever come out of college", and coupled with the arsenal the Cards presented him, well... there is just no excuse...

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

The one in the same. That has a back story that was talked about on TV BTW. The Raiders were going to start Russell no matter what. Garcia couldn't believe that with what he saw from Russell that he was going to be forced to sit behind him. He couldn't stomach it knowing how bad Russell was and made it known to the coaches so the cut him.

i know but there are still a bunch of teams that could use a backup QB, some think the Cards are in that group, and he's sitting at home. Heck, he could probably start for SF.

Back to ML. The reason i say he did his job is look at what a guy like Sage Rosenfels did when he went in for Schaub. He put up nice numbers for the most part but always had a key fumble(s) or INT(s) to lose the game for the Texans. I'll take what Leinart did Sunday over that any day. It's like Whiz said,if the Cards convert 3rd and 1 and Becht doesn't fumble we're probably not having this converstaion. In fact, i bet if the Cards had put up 14 points on those drives there would be threads praising Leinart and saying how we should let Warner walk in the off season and go with ML.

 

[MrYeahBut]

But I can't blame Garcia for saying I can't sit behind this garbage either.

I agree and I will concede this point. I will still hold to my point of Garcia not being all that or he would have a job right now. Had he stayed with the Raiders he would probably played last week instead of Grabasskowski and would be starting in Dallas this week.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

As for Leinart, I simply have yet to see someone who is of starting NFL quality... He's slow. His reads are poor. His timing is bad. His throws are consistently high and he has a painfully slow release. Hey, who knows... He could prove me wrong one day and honestly, I would LOVE it if he did! But at this stage, I have very, very serious doubts about Matty... had them since the very first second we drafted him and he's done zilcho to change my feelings...

Excellent take, I always have had the same nagging fears about Leinart.

 

[SoCal Cardfan]

Steve Young first four seasons-71.3 rating 53% completion
Matt Leinart first four seasons-71.3 rating 56% completion

2 seasons with the god awful Bucs really paint that picture accurately right?

His first relief of Montana he finished the season with 10 TD's no picks.
But go ahead with that argument.. because I totally see the parallels between taking over the reins for the worst team in history and one of the best.

 

[Dayman]

2 seasons with the god awful Bucs really paint that picture accurately right?

His first relief of Montana he finished the season with 10 TD's no picks.
But go ahead with that argument.. because I totally see the parallels between taking over the reins for the worst team in history and one of the best.

Those Bucs' teams actually had much better run games than the Cards during Leinart's rookie season. Young also completed under 54% of his passes in those years with the Niners, which isn't exactly stellar considering they had the number one offense in the league the first year.

I'm not saying that Leinart will turn out to be Young. I'm not even sure he'll turn out to be competent. But I do think it's risky to judge a QB with a fairly limited sample. Leinart had a better rookie year than Stafford or Sanchez. He performed fairly well last year in relief, too. This year has been a little rough, but after the tragedy of quarterbacks this team has gone through over the past couple decades besides Warner, I think he deserves another shot under normal circumstances to see what he has.

 

[CardLogic]

Back to ML. The reason i say he did his job is look at what a guy like Sage Rosenfels did when he went in for Schaub. He put up nice numbers for the most part but always had a key fumble(s) or INT(s) to lose the game for the Texans. I'll take what Leinart did Sunday over that any day. It's like Whiz said,if the Cards convert 3rd and 1 and Becht doesn't fumble we're probably not having this converstaion. In fact, i bet if the Cards had put up 14 points on those drives there would be threads praising Leinart and saying how we should let Warner walk in the off season and go with ML.

Glad I skipped from about page 8 to here; you nailed it!

We will now return you to our regularly occurring endless QB debate...

 

[Duckjake]

2 seasons with the god awful Bucs really paint that picture accurately right?

His first relief of Montana he finished the season with 10 TD's no picks.
But go ahead with that argument.. because I totally see the parallels between taking over the reins for the worst team in history and one of the best.

Steve Young was 9-19 in one game for 100 yards and then 13-30 in the next but combined had 6 TD passes in the two games and ran for 116 yards. The 49ers ran for over 500 yards total and won 41-0 and 35-7. He was 10-13 and had 3 TD passes in the last game*.

Sounds a lot like something Vince Young would do.

*Montana was 6-9 and had two TD passes himself in that game. Jerry Rice had 22 TD catches that season and 15 different players scored offensive TDs for the 49ers. That was one awesome football team and then they promptly lost to Wade Wilson and the 8-7 Vikings in the first round of the playoffs. Go figure.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

Somebody posted that hollywoods QB rating for the game was 83.5.

QB rating is not the end all be all, but it's pretty much proof that he performed competently.

He deserves another shot...

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

, as we all know, Matty was "the most NFL ready QB to ever come out of college", and coupled with the arsenal the Cards presented him, well... there is just no excuse...

another that thing that has always bugged me about the Leinart naysayers. Just becasue Kiper or McShay thought that about Leinart doesn't make it so. I don't remember any NFL personnel men saying that. So that argument is total crap. If that was the case he would've gone #1 overall like probably the actual 2 most ready NFL ready QB's to come out in the last 10-15 years, Peyton Mannning and Carson Palmer.

 

[Cardiac]

Warner has actually played worse at times this season than Leinart did Sunday. And people rushed to bench him and declare him all washed up after each one of those games. So, I can't take all this hand-wringing over Leinart too seriously.

It's a good thing none of us has anything more than an opinion on the matter.

:notworthy

Nailed it.

 

[Stout]

Look, it's simple. Some folks want to take a few very small samples of when Leinart's actually been in games and say that it is going to define his career. That's cool, because I've made personal judgements based on even less than that. Everyone has their right to their own opinion, and anyone that wants to can say that he's a bust.

All I and others are trying to say is that we haven't seen Matt in nearly enough action to come to any kind of firm decision. Yes, practice and timing is the reason I'm going to use as to why he didn't absolutely light it up in that game, or even score. Absolutely. Why? Because, despite all the whining and moaning, Matt had solid albeit pedestrian numbers in relief. They didn't put him in a situation to succeed (why would you EVER roll a leftie QB to the RIGHT?), and they knew it, so they pared back what they let him do. He didn't light the joint up and he didn't stink it up either.

I just think it's preposterous to look at the handful of plays that Matt Leinart has been in on this season and come to any kind of definitive decision on his future with this team. It's ridiculous, really.

 

[devilalum]

I still think ML being left handed really messes things up, especially when he has to come into the game in relief. If the team has a week to prepare for him it is less of a factor.

All the pass blocking is designed to protect a right handed QB. The receiver routes are designed for throws from a right hander. The ball spins and curves the other way....

 

[Duckjake]

Look, it's simple. Some folks want to take a few very small samples of when Leinart's actually been in games and say that it is going to define his career. That's cool, because I've made personal judgements based on even less than that. Everyone has their right to their own opinion, and anyone that wants to can say that he's a bust.

All I and others are trying to say is that we haven't seen Matt in nearly enough action to come to any kind of firm decision. Yes, practice and timing is the reason I'm going to use as to why he didn't absolutely light it up in that game, or even score. Absolutely. Why? Because, despite all the whining and moaning, Matt had solid albeit pedestrian numbers in relief. They didn't put him in a situation to succeed (why would you EVER roll a leftie QB to the RIGHT?), and they knew it, so they pared back what they let him do. He didn't light the joint up and he didn't stink it up either.

I just think it's preposterous to look at the handful of plays that Matt Leinart has been in on this season and come to any kind of definitive decision on his future with this team. It's ridiculous, really.

And you have to also add in that the Cards aren't exactly world beaters overall in the second half once they get a big lead and it has nothing to do with Leinart coming in as he didn't play in the NFC Championship game or the game against the Texans and the Cards were already starting to coast in the Jacksonville and Bears games before Matt came in.

I can also point to several career backup QBs who excelled in games when called on to replace a starter but struggled when they actually became a starter.

 

[earthsci]

I can also point to several career backup QBs who excelled in games when called on to replace a starter but struggled when they actually became a starter.

Speaking of Alex Smith...

 

[justAndy]

I still think ML being left handed really messes things up, especially when he has to come into the game in relief. If the team has a week to prepare for him it is less of a factor.

All the pass blocking is designed to protect a right handed QB. The receiver routes are designed for throws from a right hander. The ball spins and curves the other way....

Add to that the coaches rolling him out to the right - instead of to the left where he can easily throw to any east/west point. Rolling him to the right limits him to about half the field.