no Haley for AZ per Somers

[Jim Otis]

Would his point have been better made if he had said that the Steelers drafted EARLIER than 25-32 in each of the last two years, 3 of the last 4 years, 5 of the last 7 years, etc.? He correctly pointed out that they have drafted below 25 every year but 8 of the last 23. He could've said "every year but 5 of the last 15."



...dave

Now daves , that's just to darn many numbers and stuff !!

 

[Cheesebeef]

I've got a question for all the "Wiz did nothing...it was all Haley and Warner" people. Does Haley utterly failing in both KC as a HC and in Pittsburg as an OC and Wiz calling plays for an out of nowhere resurgent Chargers offense do anything to mitigate that stance? And before you say "It's not Wiz's playbook, he's just running the HC's offense, how come that argument never held water when people said the same thing about Haley running Wiz's playbook?

I'm glad Wiz is gone...the team needed a change badly, but I think there's still a lot of people here who don't give the guy the credit he deserves. He took this team to the Super Bowl...the Cardinals...TO THE SUPER BOWL. And won a playoff game the next year. That's beyond words ridiculous for this franchise.

 

[MadCardDisease]

I've got a question for all the "Wiz did nothing...it was all Haley and Warner" people. Does Haley utterly failing in both KC as a HC and in Pittsburg as an OC and Wiz calling plays for an out of nowhere resurgent Chargers offense do anything to mitigate that stance? And before you say "It's not Wiz's playbook, he's just running the HC's offense, how come that argument never held water when people said the same thing about Haley running Wiz's playbook?

I'm glad Wiz is gone...the team needed a change badly, but I think there's still a lot of people here who don't give the guy the credit he deserves. He took this team to the Super Bowl...the Cardinals...TO THE SUPER BOWL. And won a playoff game the next year. That's beyond words ridiculous for this franchise.

My thoughts exactly!

Whiz doesn't get the credit he deserved by many on this board. Haley often got way too much credit by those same people.

 

[Cheesebeef]

My thoughts exactly!

Whiz doesn't get the credit he deserved by many on this board. Haley often got way too much credit by those same people.

yup. in fact, correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Haley only OC for one year? Wiz was calling plays in 2007, when we were 8-8, but once Warner was named starter, the offense soared. And the offense was damn good again in 2009 when Haley was in KC.

 

[Duckjake]

yup. in fact, correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Haley only OC for one year? Wiz was calling plays in 2007, when we were 8-8, but once Warner was named starter, the offense soared. And the offense was damn good again in 2009 when Haley was in KC.

I agree and you left out my favorite rebuttal, if it was all Warner why were the Cards 5-11 and 5-11 with Kurt Warner on the roster under Denny Green?

Of course the answer to that is it was the Cardinals and 5-11 is what they do.

 

[Shane]

I've got a question for all the "Wiz did nothing...it was all Haley and Warner" people. Does Haley utterly failing in both KC as a HC and in Pittsburg as an OC and Wiz calling plays for an out of nowhere resurgent Chargers offense do anything to mitigate that stance? And before you say "It's not Wiz's playbook, he's just running the HC's offense, how come that argument never held water when people said the same thing about Haley running Wiz's playbook?

I'm glad Wiz is gone...the team needed a change badly, but I think there's still a lot of people here who don't give the guy the credit he deserves. He took this team to the Super Bowl...the Cardinals...TO THE SUPER BOWL. And won a playoff game the next year. That's beyond words ridiculous for this franchise.

My thoughts exactly!

Whiz doesn't get the credit he deserved by many on this board. Haley often got way too much credit by those same people.

yup. in fact, correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Haley only OC for one year? Wiz was calling plays in 2007, when we were 8-8, but once Warner was named starter, the offense soared. And the offense was damn good again in 2009 when Haley was in KC.

I agree and you left out my favorite rebuttal, if it was all Warner why were the Cards 5-11 and 5-11 with Kurt Warner on the roster under Denny Green?

Of course the answer to that is it was the Cardinals and 5-11 is what they do.

Yes! Yes! Yes! And Yes!

Whiz easily the best HC his franchise has seen. Did wonders here. He's a very accomplished and successful OC and IMO will be a HC again most likely.

 

[Redheart]

I've got a question for all the "Wiz did nothing...it was all Haley and Warner" people. Does Haley utterly failing in both KC as a HC and in Pittsburg as an OC and Wiz calling plays for an out of nowhere resurgent Chargers offense do anything to mitigate that stance? And before you say "It's not Wiz's playbook, he's just running the HC's offense, how come that argument never held water when people said the same thing about Haley running Wiz's playbook?

I'm glad Wiz is gone...the team needed a change badly, but I think there's still a lot of people here who don't give the guy the credit he deserves. He took this team to the Super Bowl...the Cardinals...TO THE SUPER BOWL. And won a playoff game the next year. That's beyond words ridiculous for this franchise.

Really good post; it was hard for me to get over cutting Whiz loose for that very reason after a year devastated by injuries. As a side note; the statistics Kurt Warner had under Whiz are the "cherry on top" that will put him in the HOF, even though he did not win the last big game!

But I was over Whiz and his commitment to Pittsburg-retreads, players and coaches; Grimm was a coaching-bust of Mean Joe Green dimensions and whose offensive line failures could be argued to have cost Whiz his job.

 

[splitsecond]

Hard to have strong drafts when you're drafting in the 25-32 range every year. It's kind of the problem the Indianapolis Colts had during the Peyton Manning regime.

That problem is compounded by having a very veteran roster with guys on their second and third contracts. Having two veteran safeties, for example, is a luxury that teams can't really afford.

Pittsburgh is a franchise that historically "bottoms out" once or twice a decade, ends up with a Top 10 pick, and then rides that pick for the next decade. This might just be a bottoming out type season for them.

It happens sometimes.

I don't necessarily disagree,that's the beauty of NFL parity. But the Patriots haven't seemed to have a problem with it.

 

[splitsecond]

I've got a question for all the "Wiz did nothing...it was all Haley and Warner" people. Does Haley utterly failing in both KC as a HC and in Pittsburg as an OC and Wiz calling plays for an out of nowhere resurgent Chargers offense do anything to mitigate that stance? And before you say "It's not Wiz's playbook, he's just running the HC's offense, how come that argument never held water when people said the same thing about Haley running Wiz's playbook?

I'm glad Wiz is gone...the team needed a change badly, but I think there's still a lot of people here who don't give the guy the credit he deserves. He took this team to the Super Bowl...the Cardinals...TO THE SUPER BOWL. And won a playoff game the next year. That's beyond words ridiculous for this franchise.

After hearing Warner recently on Cowherd and again on Gambo I've come to the conclusion he was the brainchild behind all that. Denny's offensive weapons + Warner's game preparation. Whiz's credit IMO is limited to getting Kurt to wear gloves and correct his other little issues so he could get his mind right, and giving him a Playbook I run. Warner pretty much has confirmed he has to be the workhorse on offensive game planning and that's what wore him out mentally to the point he felt the need to retire.

 

[Duckjake]

After hearing Warner recently on Cowherd and again on Gambo I've come to the conclusion he was the brainchild behind all that. Denny's offensive weapons + Warner's game preparation. Whiz's credit IMO is limited to getting Kurt to wear gloves and correct his other little issues so he could get his mind right, and giving him a Playbook I run. Warner pretty much has confirmed he has to be the workhorse on offensive game planning and that's what wore him out mentally to the point he felt the need to retire.

Oddly enough 4 of the top 22 players on the 2008 Super Bowl team were drafted
by Dave McGinnis. Adrian Wilson, Gerald Hayes, Anquan Boldin and Reggie Wells.

Those four guys combined to start 408 games for the Arizona Cardinals.

 

[football karma]

After hearing Warner recently on Cowherd and again on Gambo I've come to the conclusion he was the brainchild behind all that. Denny's offensive weapons + Warner's game preparation. Whiz's credit IMO is limited to getting Kurt to wear gloves and correct his other little issues so he could get his mind right, and giving him a Playbook I run. Warner pretty much has confirmed he has to be the workhorse on offensive game planning and that's what wore him out mentally to the point he felt the need to retire.

I love what Kurt did for the Cards-- but Warner can be a bit self serving in some of his after the fact analysis of his time in Arizona. During the Whis years he was also outspoken in his preference to put it on him-- let him make decisions and distribute.

I don't think you get to the SB on the back of just one guy-- it was the combination of many contributions.

Whis was a good coach-- he succumbed to what many good coaches succumb to when given far too much personnel input. His chief failing was the belief that he could get career 50% completion QBs over 65% - with a sketchy o line and no running game.

 

[Cheesebeef]

After hearing Warner recently on Cowherd and again on Gambo I've come to the conclusion he was the brainchild behind all that. Denny's offensive weapons + Warner's game preparation. Whiz's credit IMO is limited to getting Kurt to wear gloves and correct his other little issues so he could get his mind right, and giving him a Playbook I run. Warner pretty much has confirmed he has to be the workhorse on offensive game planning and that's what wore him out mentally to the point he felt the need to retire.

I guess I just don't understand the above. On the one hand, you say it was Warner's prep and Denny's players that deserve all the credit...but when Warner had Denny's player without Wiz, he was incredibly mediocre and a turnover machine.

 

[Shane]

I guess I just don't understand the above. On the one hand, you say it was Warner's prep and Denny's players that deserve all the credit...but when Warner had Denny's player without Wiz, he was incredibly mediocre and a turnover machine.

Hes being totally contradictory. He saying Whiz basically did nothing but then says gets credit for Kurt wearing a glove and then fixing his "other little issues so he could get his mind right" Well wouldn't getting Kurts mind right compared to his two 5-11 seasons with Green be a pretty big deal??

 

[kerouac9]

Kerouac you a closet steeler fan now? Making excuses for that team and coach?

kerouac9: Super Steeler-fan

Yeah, I've never been quiet about my founding love of the NFL (not just the Cards) coming from watching the Steelers and Bucs in the late 90s, early 2000s. Those are the teams that kind of imprinted on me as what football "should" be.

I have a John Lynch jersey and a Levon Kirkland jersey hanging in my closet alongside my Antrel Rolle, Bryant Johnson, and Larry Fitzgerald jerseys.

As for the rest of you guys, you can celebrate "catching" me in an exaggeration as much as you like. The Steelers tend to make the playoffs or finish just outside, and have been for most of the last two decades. That's usually drafting in the 18-32 range.

 

[ajcardfan]

My thoughts exactly!

Whiz doesn't get the credit he deserved by many on this board. Haley often got way too much credit by those same people.

I'll give him credit. All time leader in wins for the Cardinals and 4-2 in the playoffs. Hands down, the greatest coach in Cards history. Yes, better than Coryell.



How can people NOT give him credit for the most glorious moments of what has mostly been a miserable fan experience.

 

[ajcardfan]

Yeah, I've never been quiet about my founding love of the NFL (not just the Cards) coming from watching the Steelers and Bucs in the late 90s, early 2000s. Those are the teams that kind of imprinted on me as what football "should" be.

I have a John Lynch jersey and a Levon Kirkland jersey hanging in my closet alongside my Antrel Rolle, Bryant Johnson, and Larry Fitzgerald jerseys.

As for the rest of you guys, you can celebrate "catching" me in an exaggeration as much as you like. The Steelers tend to make the playoffs or finish just outside, and have been for most of the last two decades. That's usually drafting in the 18-32 range.

You are a lot younger than I thought you were.

 

[BigRedArk]

Yeah, I've never been quiet about my founding love of the NFL (not just the Cards) coming from watching the Steelers and Bucs in the late 90s, early 2000s. Those are the teams that kind of imprinted on me as what football "should" be.

I have a John Lynch jersey and a Levon Kirkland jersey hanging in my closet alongside my Antrel Rolle, Bryant Johnson, and Larry Fitzgerald jerseys.

As for the rest of you guys, you can celebrate "catching" me in an exaggeration as much as you like. The Steelers tend to make the playoffs or finish just outside, and have been for most of the last two decades. That's usually drafting in the 18-32 range.

Antrel Rolle jersey? I was thinking you weren't much of a fan or Rolle's? IIRC you liked Pac Man (forgot his name) that the Titans took in the 1st Rd that same year. Or quite possibly my memory has gone into fog mode....i ain't gettin' any younger! (I always liked Rolle myself BTW).

 

[kerouac9]

Antrel Rolle jersey? I was thinking you weren't much of a fan or Rolle's? IIRC you liked Pac Man (forgot his name) that the Titans took in the 1st Rd that same year. Or quite possibly my memory has gone into fog mode....i ain't gettin' any younger! (I always liked Rolle myself BTW).

I loved Pacman. But I fell in line behind Rolle because Pacman wasn't available when we picked.

 

[Hollywood]

I love what Kurt did for the Cards-- but Warner can be a bit self serving in some of his after the fact analysis of his time in Arizona. During the Whis years he was also outspoken in his preference to put it on him-- let him make decisions and distribute.

I don't think you get to the SB on the back of just one guy-- it was the combination of many contributions.

Whis was a good coach-- he succumbed to what many good coaches succumb to when given far too much personnel input. His chief failing was the belief that he could get career 50% completion QBs over 65% - with a sketchy o line and no running game.

It wasn't just his handling of QB's. At the end he just lost control of the team and didn't seem to have a clue how to get it back.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Whiz sure is struggling to get Phillip Rivers back on track. I thought all along the best thing for the Cards would have been to keep Whiz and acquire Rivers in the off season. That being said, I like Arians and how he handles the team/game plan so far too.

EDIT:I just saw cheese's previous posts. He is spot on.

 

[kerouac9]

I don't necessarily disagree,that's the beauty of NFL parity. But the Patriots haven't seemed to have a problem with it.

Really? They've not had to draft in the Top 10 or anything, but part of that is a virtue in playing in a division where 9 wins will get you into the playoffs.

It's worth noting also that the Pats Defense has been in steady decline for most of 5 or 6 years,

 

[Duckjake]

Really? They've not had to draft in the Top 10 or anything, but part of that is a virtue in playing in a division where 9 wins will get you into the playoffs.

It's worth noting also that the Pats Defense has been in steady decline for most of 5 or 6 years,

The Patriots also somewhat make up for their draft position by acquiring additional picks.
2009-2012 New England had 20 picks in the first 3 rounds. Arizona had 11.

 

[daves]

Whiz sure is struggling to get Phillip Rivers back on track.

Can't tell if you're being sarcastic... but the last two seasons Rivers had passer ratings in the high 80's. After two games this year, Rivers had 65.8% completions, 7 TDs, 1 INT, and a passer rating of 115.8. Looking at today's game, he was 83.3% on completions with another TD, 0 picks, and a rating of 112.5. And the Chargers have scored 4 points per game more in the first three games this year than they averaged last year. All without Danario Alexander or anyone else who would be considered a #1 WR on any other team.

...dave

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Can't tell if you're being sarcastic... but the last two seasons Rivers had passer ratings in the high 80's. After two games this year, Rivers had 65.8% completions, 7 TDs, 1 INT, and a passer rating of 115.8. Looking at today's game, he was 83.3% on completions with another TD, 0 picks, and a rating of 112.5. And the Chargers have scored 4 points per game more in the first three games this year than they averaged last year. All without Danario Alexander or anyone else who would be considered a #1 WR on any other team.

...dave

 

[daves]

...dave