Now its about #16, 31, and 59

[Hoop Head]

The Suns have already been through the period where they didn't value draft picks and it didn't work. This has been much discussed. It's one of the reasons the Suns have been in decline.

I don't think picks have been misused in quite some time. The only 1st in the McD era that has been thrown away was Ennis, IMO. He was 1 of 3 1st round picks that year though so it wasn't all that surprising that 1 of the picks didn't pan out. Warren panned out well from that draft and Bogdan helped us acquire Chriss. I think some are overvaluing the talent that will be available at 16. It's odd to see people put down the stats of backup PG's in favor of the prospect of players who may never achieve being solid backups. We'll see what happens but I'd be surprised if we add a rotation player at 16, even more so if we add a rotation player at 31.

 

[Krangodnzr]

While that is true almost every year, it's not true this one. Very rarely have we seen a talent pool this deep. I've been toying around with scouting since the Shaq/Alonzo draft. This one might be my favorite.

Not all #16s are the same. The #16 pick is worth a heck of a lot more than last year's #16. For example, Ntilikina (a player I liked) went 8th last year. This year I'd put him after Zhaire Smith, Kevin Huerter, and Jerome Robinson. And yet one of these guys will likely go in the 20's. Stated differently, the #16 pick will garner a top 10 prospect in most years.

This is the ABSOLUTE best year to have multiple 1st round picks. At #16 we might have the luxury of drafting Miles Bridges, Mikal Bridges, Shai, Lonnie Walker, or Jerome Robinson. That is an insanely talented group to possibly be available at #16.

Fair point.

 

[Krangodnzr]

This draft has a lot of talent even down to #31. Who are you interested trading for at #16?

Please don't say Tyus Jones.

I want Donte DiVincenzo. As I watch draft, after draft in the NBA and NFL, I'm realizing more often that teams skip over players with real on the field/court talent for athletic projects, and fail more often than not. The counter to that trend is to take guys that have real talent, not guys that will need years to learn fundamentals. No more Archie Goodwins, especially not in the middle of a good draft class.

Save #31 for the athletic project, use #16 on a guy that will contribute off the bench for years.

 

[Hoop Head]

I'd be happy with Payton as the Suns starting PG, at least for the foreseeable future. My concern, it has been too quiet concerning Payton. I haven't heard anything about him being actively involved with Suns players. My hope is I simply missed it. With Jackson getting a haircut, it would have been the perfect time for him to get involved.

I think Payton is just a quiet and private player. It was said he's good friends with TJ when he was acquired and you don't hear much about Warren outside of the season either. You know he's working but he's just not the type who cares much about publicity. I would guess Payton shares a similar sort of work ethic and view on things if they've been good friends since entering the league together, as reported. Honestly never heard they were friends before Elfrid was acquired which says how much coverage TJ gets. So I think no news isn't bad news in this case.

 

[Phrazbit]

Payton is not under contract and about to become a restricted free agent. I don't think it would be in his best interest to make it appear as though he is desperate to stay in Phoenix. Staying quiet is his best option.

 

[Mainstreet]

I don't think picks have been misused in quite some time. The only 1st in the McD era that has been thrown away was Ennis, IMO. He was 1 of 3 1st round picks that year though so it wasn't all that surprising that 1 of the picks didn't pan out. Warren panned out well from that draft and Bogdan helped us acquire Chriss. I think some are overvaluing the talent that will be available at 16. It's odd to see people put down the stats of backup PG's in favor of the prospect of players who may never achieve being solid backups. We'll see what happens but I'd be surprised if we add a rotation player at 16, even more so if we add a rotation player at 31.

I think there is a decent chance the Suns use #16 to move up in the draft. That said, if the Suns keep the pick, I like their chances of finding a player that will contribute down the road. I think this draft is much deeper than #16.

 

[Mainstreet]

I want Donte DiVincenzo. As I watch draft, after draft in the NBA and NFL, I'm realizing more often that teams skip over players with real on the field/court talent for athletic projects, and fail more often than not. The counter to that trend is to take guys that have real talent, not guys that will need years to learn fundamentals. No more Archie Goodwins, especially not in the middle of a good draft class.

Save #31 for the athletic project, use #16 on a guy that will contribute off the bench for years.

Well, I like DiVincenzo as well. He has skills that can immediately be used. Who are we taking at #31. LOL

 

[Mainstreet]

I think Payton is just a quiet and private player. It was said he's good friends with TJ when he was acquired and you don't hear much about Warren outside of the season either. You know he's working but he's just not the type who cares much about publicity. I would guess Payton shares a similar sort of work ethic and view on things if they've been good friends since entering the league together, as reported. Honestly never heard they were friends before Elfrid was acquired which says how much coverage TJ gets. So I think no news isn't bad news in this case.

I'm hoping this is the case. My primary concern with Payton was his obstructed vision. He could easily be a starter for the Suns.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I'm hoping this is the case. My primary concern with Payton was his obstructed vision. He could easily be a starter for the Suns.

My primary concern with him is that he has shown so little of the defense that got him drafted in the first place. I'm hoping that a stable situation with a quality coach will bring out the best of him, on both sides of the ball. I was bothered by the hair but not really concerned because he announced shortly after the trade that he would be doing something about it.

 

[Mainstreet]

My primary concern with him is that he has shown so little of the defense that got him drafted in the first place. I'm hoping that a stable situation with a quality coach will bring out the best of him, on both sides of the ball. I was bothered by the hair but not really concerned because he announced shortly after the trade that he would be doing something about it.

Payton is a better PG immediately than the Suns can draft at #16 or #31. I like his ability to run a team and his ability to get to the rim which creates open shots for teammates. It would be great if Igor can do something to improve his defense but he solves a lot of problems for the Suns in the short term and perhaps the long term as well.

I remember Payton making a remark about getting a haircut but I thought it would happen during the season. I can't help but wonder why Payton dragged his feet in the matter. It's hard for me to believe some players didn't push him on the issue. Anyway, if Payton is happy being a Sun, I'm happy to have him.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I remember Payton making a remark about getting a haircut but I thought it would happen during the season. I can't help but wonder why Payton dragged his feet in the matter. It's hard for me to believe some players didn't push him on the issue. Anyway, if Payton is happy being a Sun, I'm happy to have him.

I don't remember the exact comment but I do remember thinking it was worded strangely. It didn't promise an immediate action. IIRC, he said something like he had resigned himself to probably having to cut his hair.

 

[Mainstreet]

I don't remember the exact comment but I do remember thinking it was worded strangely. It didn't promise an immediate action. IIRC, he said something like he had resigned himself to probably having to cut his hair.

This sounds about right. However, it didn't make sense to me why he didn't do it immediately after the trade to increase his value in free agency.

 

[AzStevenCal]

This sounds about right. However, it didn't make sense to me why he didn't do it immediately after the trade to increase his value in free agency.

Yeah, I agree. I think he really didn't want to change his hair but had heard from so many sources that it was a must for his career going forward.

 

[Raze]

My primary concern with him is that he has shown so little of the defense that got him drafted in the first place. I'm hoping that a stable situation with a quality coach will bring out the best of him, on both sides of the ball. I was bothered by the hair but not really concerned because he announced shortly after the trade that he would be doing something about it.

I was bothered by his apathy for getting his hair cut when it DEFINITELY hindered his game.

I was bothered by his apathy on defense when he could be a top notch defender.

I was bothered by his apathy for his poor shooting (30% from three, 62% from FT) which he's hardly improved upon.

I'm completely bothered by his complete apathy toward his own success and thus ours. I don't like players who in contract years show such poor effort. He has no excuse.

Give me someone who leaves their blood, sweat, tears, and soul on the court to help us win. Elfrid is not that guy.

 

[Raze]

He’s ranked #46 by the Stepien

https://www.thestepien.com/2018/06/19/jackson-hoys-final-2018-big-board/

He might be a better target at #31. Not sure I would pass on Okobo for him.

I'm just as big a fan of prospect rankings as anyone, but to have Deandre Ayton #6!?! Tier 3!?! That's insane.

I also completely disagree with Holiday at #46 and Jerome Robinson at #58. I'm not even a big fan of Aaron and find it insulting that he's that low. Heck, I actually like De'Anthony Melton and think he's overvaluing him at #12. Truly strange rankings.

Just to reiterate on Okobo, he's an absolute undisciplined mess on defense. He is NOT a good fit here next to Book.

 

[sunsfan88]

I'm just as big a fan of prospect rankings as anyone, but to have Deandre Ayton #6!?! Tier 3!?! That's insane.

I also completely disagree with Holiday at #46 and Jerome Robinson at #58. I'm not even a big fan of Aaron and find it insulting that he's that low. Heck, I actually like De'Anthony Melton and think he's overvaluing him at #12. Truly strange rankings.

Just to reiterate on Okobo, he's an absolute undisciplined mess on defense. He is NOT a good fit here next to Book.

I'd prefer Khyri over both quite honestly. Good defender and can shoot. Fits what we need next to Book.

 

[Hoop Head]

I don't remember the exact comment but I do remember thinking it was worded strangely. It didn't promise an immediate action. IIRC, he said something like he had resigned himself to probably having to cut his hair.

I recall he said something along the lines of being tired of people asking about his hair so he was going to do something with it "soon", that was when he was acquired in February though. Soon should have been the All-Star break but he kept it for 3 more months. He said he was surprised it became such a discussion though because he never thought much of it, he didn't grow it out for any reason specifically, he just sort of let it grow. He also said it didn't effect his playing but it was clear that was either a lie or he wasn't conscious to how often he'd hit it with his hand. He said he last cut it in High School or his first year of University. That's a long time and noticing the changes you make personally are hard to pick up because it's such a gradual thing, you aren't just changing overnight. It's gone now, so that's a good thing.

contract years show such poor effort. He has no excuse.

Give me someone who leaves their blood, sweat, tears, and soul on the court to help us win. Elfrid is not that guy.

He did play all out when he arrived, for a good 2-3 weeks as well. Then he missed a couple of games because of an "injury" and he never played with a full roster again because the tank was in. Everybody worth damn started missing games and Payton was stuck with a bunch of 2nd string guys and as a pass-first/playmaking PG he didn't have a ton to work with. It was clear the tank was in and for a player that seemed excited to be in a new place and on a new team then he started playing disinterested because the team wasn't trying to win and we also had a lame-duck coach running the team. I think management knows more about what was up with him at the end of the year than fans. We only know what we saw and that wasn't good but we don't know how the team talked in the locker room or practice. Being without 2 of the 4 other starters had to hurt his play quite a bit though, especially when the other 2 starters don't really deserve a starting job and they wouldn't have one if the team wasn't tanking. Chandler's in the twilight of his career and Bender/Chriss only got the time they did because our front office was hoping one of them would show something. I don't think they would be rotation players on the majority of other teams in the league.

 

[Raze]

He did play all out when he arrived, for a good 2-3 weeks as well. Then he missed a couple of games because of an "injury" and he never played with a full roster again because the tank was in. Everybody worth damn started missing games and Payton was stuck with a bunch of 2nd string guys and as a pass-first/playmaking PG he didn't have a ton to work with. It was clear the tank was in and for a player that seemed excited to be in a new place and on a new team then he started playing disinterested because the team wasn't trying to win and we also had a lame-duck coach running the team. I think management knows more about what was up with him at the end of the year than fans. We only know what we saw and that wasn't good but we don't know how the team talked in the locker room or practice. Being without 2 of the 4 other starters had to hurt his play quite a bit though, especially when the other 2 starters don't really deserve a starting job and they wouldn't have one if the team wasn't tanking. Chandler's in the twilight of his career and Bender/Chriss only got the time they did because our front office was hoping one of them would show something. I don't think they would be rotation players on the majority of other teams in the league.

I'd be willing to relent a bit on the lack of effort comment. But that still leaves career issues of uninspired D, poor 3pt FG%/FT%, and hindering hair.

 

[BC867]

I would really like to see an experienced Point Guard running the offense for this young team.

And, for the record, not a tweener either. A skilled Point Guard.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I would really like to see an experienced Point Guard running the offense for this young team.

And, for the record, not a tweener either. A skilled Point Guard.

I want a point guard that can get to the rim and score, shoot from mid-range, is a threat from distance, can slow his man down, reads the D well, makes the right pass, and can make an entry pass to the big down low. And with Ayton coming in, I especially want a PG that can make that entry pass. We've not been good at that for quite awhile.

 

[GatorAZ]

I want a point guard that can get to the rim and score, shoot from mid-range, is a threat from distance, can slow his man down, reads the D well, makes the right pass, and can make an entry pass to the big down low. And with Ayton coming in, I especially want a PG that can make that entry pass. We've not been good at that for quite awhile.

You described Kyle Lowry.

 

[AzStevenCal]

You described Kyle Lowry.

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention I want a point guard that doesn't pull a Casper when the postseason comes around.

 

[sunsfan88]

I want a point guard that can get to the rim and score, shoot from mid-range, is a threat from distance, can slow his man down, reads the D well, makes the right pass, and can make an entry pass to the big down low. And with Ayton coming in, I especially want a PG that can make that entry pass. We've not been good at that for quite awhile.

And I want a million dollars.

Seriously Steve? You basically described like prime Chris Paul.

 

[AzStevenCal]

And I want a million dollars.

Seriously Steve? You basically described like prime Chris Paul.

My list was probably a bit optimistic but I was trying to paint a picture. I don't want someone that can defend but not help space the court. I don't want a point guard that can pass but can't shoot. And I don't want a point guard who can get into the lane but not find the open man. It's the one position in today's game that you just can't "settle" for mediocrity IMO.

 

[sunsfan88]

My list was probably a bit optimistic but I was trying to paint a picture. I don't want someone that can defend but not help space the court. I don't want a point guard that can pass but can't shoot. And I don't want a point guard who can get into the lane but not find the open man. It's the one position in today's game that you just can't "settle" for mediocrity IMO.

I agree somewhat even though I think there are certain things that perhaps more luxuries than requirements. I think some things like passing are not required as long as their not ball hog type players. Booker/Jackson will be doing a lot of the playmaking for us anyway. I think defense and 3pt shooting should be the two main things to look for out of a guard at 16 imo.

Not sure if anyone matching everything on your list will drop to #16. Not sure if there is such a player in the draft altogether.