Off season: Focus on offense

[Harry]

Oh I keep Jones on the bench for now. Kelvin Beacham Is a good player.

I'm looking at Jones more to be a player near the end of this contract. And I draft a guard fairly high to round out the offensive line.

I try to keep Max Garcia, Sean Harlow, and Josh Jones as backups. That's pretty solid depth.

Dump Garcia, he’s a turnstile.

 

[Harry]

He's not a #3. Certainly not "at best".

As I said in another thread recently, he was the #4 ranked WR2 in the league this year. That is based on WR's that received the 2nd most targets on their team.

You would think the league was full of WR2's racking up 1200 yards a season the way some go on around here. He had like 50 yards less than Mike Evans.

Kirk is a tough call. Murray trusts him. He can be a deep threat. Those aren’t easy to find. I think he has improved each year. I’d make him an offer, but I wouldn’t get into a bidding war. Maybe he wants to stay.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

I think they will chance Jones at RG. If I’m right they cut Pugh, they can’t afford 2 FA guards. They probably take a late round OL, but he’ll be a project.

Very concerning to me that Jones might be part of the starting oline next year. Terrifying actually, if I'm being honest, haha. But you guys might be right that Jones could morph into a starting NFL lineman.

I'm not a huge Garcia fan either, but I think he's just barely good enough to be your 7th or 8th guy in your O-lineman room.

Gee whiz. We've got the QB to make it go. We've got some pieces at the other skill positions. Come on Steve Keim. Give us a real o-line, and let's see what this offense can do with some capable blocking.

 

[football karma]

I think they will chance Jones at RG.

feel like Jones is far better at tackle than at guard.

 

[juza76]

I see people expecting Kirk excell elsewhere without kyler murray, which is something i really doubt
Kirk was drafted enough higher cause was considered a playmaker, a pretty fsst and elusive player able to break some tackles and making lot of yards after the catch
In Arizona was totally different, probably doesn't want to take any injuries risks, but what was his strenght has never been displayed for the Cardinals
I doubt he will get the same amount of passes elsewhere

 

[Crimson Warrior]

I see people expecting Kirk excell elsewhere without kyler murray, which is something i really doubt
Kirk was drafted enough higher cause was considered a playmaker, a pretty fsst and elusive player able to break some tackles and making lot of yards after the catch
In Arizona was totally different, probably doesn't want to take any injuries risks, but what was his strenght has never been displayed for the Cardinals
I doubt he will get the same amount of passes elsewhere

I mostly agree, although I give Kirk credit for making quite a few big plays this year. His stats are pretty good, and it seemed like he could get behind the defense at least once or twice a game. 77 catches for 982, and 12.8 average. 5 TDs.

So do you resign him juza? If so, for how long/ how much?

 

[juza76]

I mostly agree, although I give Kirk credit for making quite a few big plays this year. His stats are pretty good, and it seemed like he could get behind the defense at least once or twice a game. 77 catches for 982, and 12.8 average. 5 TDs.

So do you resign him juza? If so, for how long/ how much?

Top 3 wr considering the salary cap
Dj Clark
Wilson
JuJu
I wouldn't offer more then 9 mil a year for Kirk, 3 years

 

[BritCard]

I mostly agree, although I give Kirk credit for making quite a few big plays this year. His stats are pretty good, and it seemed like he could get behind the defense at least once or twice a game. 77 catches for 982, and 12.8 average. 5 TDs.

So do you resign him juza? If so, for how long/ how much?

He was the 24th ranked in receiving yards. 4th ranked WR2.

People talk about him like he had 500 yards.

 

[BritCard]

Top 3 wr considering the salary cap
Dj Clark
Wilson
JuJu
I wouldn't offer more then 9 mil a year for Kirk, 3 years

Through 4 years Chark has 900 less yards than Kirk. 4 yards less per game. 10% lower catch %.

 

[SoonerLou]

Fear you gotta pay to keep Kirk cause Rondale just isnt that great a route runner.

I feel like if we had St. Brown it'd be easier to let go of Kirk. Not sure now.

However, its a loaded draft class. Maybe that causes teams to not overpay. Curtis Samuel's bloated contract has gotta scare teams from making that same mistake.

 

[SoonerLou]

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[BritCard]

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Its not just Keim (although Keim is bad) we also have some of the worst coaching staffs.

When was the last time any position coach we had got an interview for a coordinator job? Or was coveted by any other team?

Our coaches are generally the dregs of the coaching world.

There are 5 teams that would have made Zaven Collins and Isaiah Simmons pro bowl level talents last year. Another 15 or so where they would have been stars. Instead both are either mediocre or on the bench.

Keim is part of the problem but also our coaches suck.

 

[DVontel]

Its not just Keim (although Keim is bad) we also have some of the worst coaching staffs.

When was the last time any position coach we had got an interview for a coordinator job? Or was coveted by any other team?

Our coaches are generally the dregs of the coaching world.

There are 5 teams that would have made Zaven Collins and Isaiah Simmons pro bowl level talents last year. Another 15 or so where they would have been stars. Instead both are either mediocre or on the bench.

Keim is part of the problem but also our coaches suck.

I wonder who put the coaching staffs together?

 

[Crimson Warrior]

I wonder who put the coaching staffs together?

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[BritCard]

I wonder who put the coaching staffs together?

Well to be fair, the HC's have some involvement, but I'm not really talking just the Keim era. You could go back much further than Keim.

The last coach of any sort that was hired away to a promotion was Todd Bowles and he was a BA hire, not a Keim hire. Before that (or since) when was the last time someone was hired away for a promotion elsewhere?

You see it every hiring cycle. The O line coach from X becomes the DC at Y. Or the QB coach at A becomes the OC at B. I can't remember the last time anyone on our staff was considered good enough for that outside Bowles.

 

[Dayman]

We need to replace Kirk with someone who can actually get YAC. The top 4 teams all have receivers who rack up YAC (Hill, Samuel, Kupp, Chase), and Kliff's offense thrives on it. Meanwhile, Kirk's YAC/reception has declined every season he has played, and it bottomed out at 3 yards per reception last year. Kupp and Deebo averaged almost twice that.

Oh, and Kirk is also one of the worst punt returners I have ever seen. I can't watch him let punts bounce at the 20 anymore.

 

[BritCard]

We need to replace Kirk with someone who can actually get YAC. The top 4 teams all have receivers who rack up YAC (Hill, Samuel, Kupp, Chase), and Kliff's offense thrives on it. Meanwhile, Kirk's YAC/reception has declined every season he has played, and it bottomed out at 3 yards per reception last year. Kupp and Deebo averaged almost twice that.

Oh, and Kirk is also one of the worst punt returners I have ever seen. I can't watch him let punts bounce at the 20 anymore.

Does Kliff's offense thrive on it? Seems to me our offense kills YAC opportunities outside of screens.

The routes Kliff favors seem to be outs, curls, comebacks, digs etc where the receivers is getting the ball with his back to the EZ or at best, side on to it. It's very rare to see a receiver getting the ball on a slant or cross with space to run into.

 

[slanidrac16]

Does Kliff's offense thrive on it? Seems to me our offense kills YAC opportunities outside of screens.

The routes Kliff favors seem to be outs, curls, comebacks, digs etc where the receivers is getting the ball with his back to the EZ or at best, side on to it. It's very rare to see a receiver getting the ball on a slant or cross with space to run into.

I agree. Personally I believe EVERY play design should have one receiver running a crossing and Kyler should know who it is.

You’d think we’d learn this just by watching our opponents kill us
With these type of routes especially with the right matchup.

Don’t you just love watching our LB’s running 5 yards behind a receiver running a crossing route?

 

[TheCardFan]

St Brown was WR1 in Detroit. They had very little else. And still only had 3 YPG more than rookie Kirk with McCoy and Rosen.

Here you go

From Senior Bowl:

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[Russ Smith]

I just don't get the Kirk hate round here. He's a good player who has been very poorly used generally while here.

I still think he has more to offer and only turned 25 a couple of months ago.

he just has a tendency to drop balls that are absolutely killers. I know every drop is bad but he drops balls in the endzone, or deep downfield, or when you're desperately looking for a big play to get some momentum. I like the guy, I still think we're going to try and keep him because Kyler loves him, but I also wonder when he's going to take that next step. and maybe it's Kyler, maybe he'll go to Tampa Bay or somewhere else and look like a star, I just don't see it.

When D Hop drops a ball I'm still stunned over a month later, can't believe he dropped that one in the redzone against the Rams. With Kirk it's like hopefully that's the only one today.

In many ways he's like Frank Sanders who all things considered was a terrific WR for us for years, but once a game he'd drop one right in his hands and drive you nuts.

And the drops are absolutely on Kirk, remember the first start of the Chosen one in Arizona, Rosen having a very good start perfect strike downfield to Kirk for a huge gain, dropped it.

 

[Stout]

he just has a tendency to drop balls that are absolutely killers. I know every drop is bad but he drops balls in the endzone, or deep downfield, or when you're desperately looking for a big play to get some momentum. I like the guy, I still think we're going to try and keep him because Kyler loves him, but I also wonder when he's going to take that next step. and maybe it's Kyler, maybe he'll go to Tampa Bay or somewhere else and look like a star, I just don't see it.

When D Hop drops a ball I'm still stunned over a month later, can't believe he dropped that one in the redzone against the Rams. With Kirk it's like hopefully that's the only one today.

In many ways he's like Frank Sanders who all things considered was a terrific WR for us for years, but once a game he'd drop one right in his hands and drive you nuts.

And the drops are absolutely on Kirk, remember the first start of the Chosen one in Arizona, Rosen having a very good start perfect strike downfield to Kirk for a huge gain, dropped it.

Give me Frank Sanders every day over Kirk!

 

[Russ Smith]

Give me Frank Sanders every day over Kirk!

I loved Frank too but I think part of why he's one of the more underrated players in Cards history is that he had all the drops.

Drops happen in the NFL, but the timing of the ones by Kirk have just been horrible

 

[Krangodnzr]

Give me Frank Sanders every day over Kirk!

Loved Frank! He used to come into my work all of the time when I was a teenager. I was starstruck the first time I saw him, but he was real humble.

Also saw Adrian Murrell, Chris Gedney, and the former back up center during the Tobin era from Buffalo.

Man Gedney's story ended quite tragically. Dude committed suicide.

 

[SoonerLou]

Dont know where to put this, but makes some good points @Russ Smith

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Its tough because they probably thought Isabella could be his Hollywood Brown. However, I think the reality is if Murphy was gone and N'Keal Harry was available thats who they were taking.

 

[SoonerLou]

*Pain*
All Pro we needed.

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