Official Training Camp Thread

[Solar7]

I’m not a huge fan of K1 as a HC either, but he knows offense & will jumpstart this offense instantly imo.

Sorry Jim, but this coaching staff is night & day better than that trash that rolled thru Zona last year & rightfully fired days after that horrific season.

lmao

(if someone else can reply with that, so can I)

The coaching staff last year had at least called NFL plays in some sense. We have a head coach who couldn't even win in college. It completely baffles me that anyone is saying we're "better," when really, it's just "different." This is tailor-made to be the worst team in NFL history.

If we suck, and suck hard, it's going to be a "well no ****, look at all of the stupid moves you made."

I hope to death that I'm wrong. But there's nothing on paper indicating success here from an objective standpoint.

I mostly agree..... #HighFive

I could see a scenario where Fitz gets back to 2017 form, Kirk elevates to a high end #2 and one of the three new guys surprises.

Fitz at 100 catches & 900 yards
Kirk at 80 catches & 1000 yards
DJ at 60 catches for 800 yards
Isabella at 60 and 700 yards
Butler at 30 or 40 for 500 yards
RSJ, KeeShawn, & the rest with 30 or so for another 200

That would be 4100 yards and doesn't seem too implausible. Would love a 2 or 3 to 1 TD / INT ratio and another 400 to 600 rushing.

That would be a pretty dynamic way to start his career and would only be 256 yards per game.

My "This guy is a HOF in waiting" scenario is: 4500 yards passing. 550 yards rushing. 40 overall TD's. 3/1 TD/INT ratio. So thats 12ish INT's.

This is insanely implausible. It would be the best rookie QB performance of all time. We've gotta stop this. If Kyler has a decent season, we should celebrate in the streets. If these numbers are put up, we are a 13 win football team. This isn't gonna happen.

I'm trying to be more positive, but come on people... six wins and 3000 yards of offense from the QB should be considered a real major success, and what we should be hoping for if this was the right hire and draft decision.

 

[DVontel]

lmao

(if someone else can reply with that, so can I)

The coaching staff last year had at least called NFL plays in some sense. We have a head coach who couldn't even win in college. It completely baffles me that anyone is saying we're "better," when really, it's just "different." This is tailor-made to be the worst team in NFL history.

If we suck, and suck hard, it's going to be a "well no ****, look at all of the stupid moves you made."

I hope to death that I'm wrong. But there's nothing on paper indicating success here from an objective standpoint.



This is insanely implausible. It would be the best rookie QB performance of all time. We've gotta stop this. If Kyler has a decent season, we should celebrate in the streets. If these numbers are put up, we are a 13 win football team. This isn't gonna happen.

I'm trying to be more positive, but come on people... six wins and 3000 yards of offense from the QB should be considered a real major success, and what we should be hoping for if this was the right hire and draft decision.

Who cares if they were bad in numerous places before they got here?

Still baffles me that the FO went & hired a guy that got fired twice in less than a year in Mike McCoy. The second he got hired is the day I knew last season was going to be worthless. Don’t give a damn if they called plays in the league before.

 

[Buckybird]

lmao

(if someone else can reply with that, so can I)

The coaching staff last year had at least called NFL plays in some sense. We have a head coach who couldn't even win in college. It completely baffles me that anyone is saying we're "better," when really, it's just "different." This is tailor-made to be the worst team in NFL history.

If we suck, and suck hard, it's going to be a "well no ****, look at all of the stupid moves you made."

I hope to death that I'm wrong. But there's nothing on paper indicating success here from an objective standpoint.



This is insanely implausible. It would be the best rookie QB performance of all time. We've gotta stop this. If Kyler has a decent season, we should celebrate in the streets. If these numbers are put up, we are a 13 win football team. This isn't gonna happen.

I'm trying to be more positive, but come on people... six wins and 3000 yards of offense from the QB should be considered a real major success, and what we should be hoping for if this was the right hire and draft decision.

Solar outside of KK, look at many of the coaches we have added to this staff. I think these guys are upgrades:

Clements-longtime QB coach. Great success in developing Aaron freaking Rodgers.

Vance Joseph-experience & successful 3-4 DC. Upgrade

Kugler-supposedly one of the top Oline coaches in the game. This Oline needs it

James Saxon-highly touted & successful RB coaches in the NFL. Helped coach Leveon Bell & Conner into stars. Long career. Huge upgrade

Spencer Whipple-coached WRs at UMass & turned Isabella into a bonafide star & knows the passing game. Highly sought after from what I heard.

Marcus Robertson-longtime NFL DB coach. Highly successful at nearly every stop!

It’s not just about the HC, it’s also about the guys who actually teach them. I like the staff we’ve assembled.

I seriously think you need to go root for another team considering you hate everything about it lol

 

[Buckybird]

Who cares if they were bad in numerous places before they got here?

Still baffles me that the FO went & hired a guy that got fired twice in less than a year in Mike McCoy. The second he got hired is the day I knew last season was going to be worthless. Don’t give a damn if they called plays in the league before.

Yep & throw in Sam Blowford into the mix & you knew the offense would suck before we even played a game

 

[kerouac9]

This is insanely implausible. It would be the best rookie QB performance of all time. We've gotta stop this. If Kyler has a decent season, we should celebrate in the streets. If these numbers are put up, we are a 13 win football team. This isn't gonna happen.

I'm trying to be more positive, but come on people... six wins and 3000 yards of offense from the QB should be considered a real major success, and what we should be hoping for if this was the right hire and draft decision.

Baker Mayfield had 3700 yards in 13 starts as a rookie.

 

[Buckybird]

Baker Mayfield had 3700 yards in 13 starts as a rookie.

And 27 TDs, the all time rookie record. Granted our rookie WRs will probably get lots of playing time & will be a work in progress, but in this offense it’s possible the numbers are similar

 

[Solar7]

Solar outside of KK, look at many of the coaches we have added to this staff. I think these guys are upgrades:

Clements-longtime QB coach. Great success in developing Aaron freaking Rodgers.

Vance Joseph-experience & successful 3-4 DC. Upgrade

Kugler-supposedly one of the top Oline coaches in the game. This Oline needs it

James Saxon-highly touted & successful RB coaches in the NFL. Helped coach Leveon Bell & Conner into stars. Long career. Huge upgrade

Spencer Whipple-coached WRs at UMass & turned Isabella into a bonafide star & knows the passing game. Highly sought after from what I heard.

Marcus Robertson-longtime NFL DB coach. Highly successful at nearly every stop!

It’s not just about the HC, it’s also about the guys who actually teach them. I like the staff we’ve assembled.

I seriously think you need to go root for another team considering you hate everything about it lol

It's just last year that we were touting how great our OL coach was coming from Carolina, and we had the league's worst line. Tom Clements is so great that he didn't have a job for two years in the sport, and he brought Brett Hundley with him... who crashed and burned when given the opportunity to play. We interviewed a lot of bigger names, who didn't end up here for whatever reason. That said, I can give Kugler breathing room because he ended up in some different circumstances that led to him being available. Let's hope he's great.

Spencer Whipple does nothing to excite me. His dad was the head coach. UMass wasn't very good. Does it mean he's bad? No, but it's another unknown. I can't find anything suggesting he was highly sought after from any source besides our friend Mitch, who asserts on ROTB that "Whip suggested to his son that now is the perfect time to get started in the NFL, that he polish up his resume and hand it directly in person to the Cardinals." Wahoo?

Vance Joseph, Marcus Robertson? Sign me up. I'm all for them, but I don't know if a solid defense is enough to turn the tide.

I seriously think you need to go root for another team considering you hate everything about it lol

I get you're probably joking here, but just to be really clear about it - I love this team, but they've done almost everything opposite of how I would have approached this offseason. Just because I anticipate our team being pretty bad doesn't mean I'm not a fan. I became a fan when this team was really bad as a kid, and I lived in Arizona for all of 6 months until I was 18. No one would have blinked an eye if I started to say I was a 49ers fan, or something like that. But I'm fiercely loyal.

All in all, I'm warming up to some of the things that are coming, but the logical side of me is shouting down most of the hope, so I'm trying to set some reasonable standards that will let me enjoy watching this season.

A season where we win six games, and strongly compete in three losses or so, will be a really encouraging sign for me to be able to chill out and get amped for 2020 as we add more pieces with our cap space.

A season where KK looks completely overwhelmed and Kyler gets killed behind a terrible offensive line will have me calling for Keim's head and wondering WTF this franchise is gonna do.

 

[Solar7]

Baker Mayfield had 3700 yards in 13 starts as a rookie.

And 27 TDs, the all time rookie record. Granted our rookie WRs will probably get lots of playing time & will be a work in progress, but in this offense it’s possible the numbers are similar

Baker Mayfield had one of the top five best rookie performances ever, statistically, and his team was rarely ever in the lead. That is not the baseline, and it's not really success, even.

I mean, I get it, I'm not Kyler's biggest fan, but let's give the kid some leeway here in terms of expectations. I will absolutely root for the guy to be the best player of all time in his rookie season, but the truth is, Rome wasn't built in a day, so if he can put up 3500 total yards, I'll probably be jazzed.

 

[Solar7]

Who cares if they were bad in numerous places before they got here?

Still baffles me that the FO went & hired a guy that got fired twice in less than a year in Mike McCoy. The second he got hired is the day I knew last season was going to be worthless. Don’t give a damn if they called plays in the league before.

I have to admit, I thought Mike McCoy was gonna be an alright hire. That and going all-in on Kirk Cousins are probably my two worst hot takes in a long time.

I totally got bamboozled by that year with Tebow, coupled with Peyton, and thought his previous firing was just bad circumstance.

I still think Cousins is a pretty damn fine QB, but he would have been an unmitigated disaster on this team right now contractually. With him though, I think we were probably closer to a 6-8 win team last year, and Wilks would still be here.

 

[BullheadCardFan]

Vegas win totals

Camps open soon (the Broncos already have started practicing), and the folks in Vegas have adjusted their projected over-under win totals for 2019.

The Chiefs at 12, followed by the Patriots at 11.

The Rams and Saints are next at 10.5, followed by the Chargers, Eagles, and Colts at 9.5

The Bears, Packers, Vikings, Browns, Steelers, and Cowboys land at 9, with the Falcons, Ravens, Seahawks, Texans just behind them, at 8.5

Next are the Titans, 49ers, Jaguars, and Panthers at 8, the Jets at 7.5, the Broncos at 7, the Lions, Bills, Buccaneers, and Washington at 6.5, the Giants, Bengals, and Raiders at 6, and the Cardinals and Dolphins at 5.

 

[BullheadCardFan]

Cardinals place Dante Booker on PUP list
Rookies have reported to Cardinals camp and one member of that group landed on the physically unable to perform list on Thursday.

The NFL’s daily transaction report brings word that linebacker Dante Booker has been placed on the list. Booker won’t be able to practice with the team until he’s activated and is eligible to be activated at any time.

Booker signed with the Cardinals after going undrafted out of Ohio State in April and is the only rookie in the team’s linebacking corps.

Injuries limited Booker’s playing time while in Columbus and the school credited him with 74 tackles, nine tackles for loss and an interception in 48 games spread over five seasons.

Veteran members of the Cardinals report to camp next week and they may make some additions to the PUP and non-football injury lists at that point.

 

[Garthshort]

I've asked the following question to Darren Urban on the official Az site, and hope that he'll be back from vacation soon and answer it. Which one or two UDFA's have the best chance of making the team? Is there one or two that have a chance?

 

[DVontel]

I have to admit, I thought Mike McCoy was gonna be an alright hire. That and going all-in on Kirk Cousins are probably my two worst hot takes in a long time.

I totally got bamboozled by that year with Tebow, coupled with Peyton, and thought his previous firing was just bad circumstance.

I still think Cousins is a pretty damn fine QB, but he would have been an unmitigated disaster on this team right now contractually. With him though, I think we were probably closer to a 6-8 win team last year, and Wilks would still be here.

How would we be closer to a 6-8 team last year with Cousins if he could barely get 8 wins with a way more talented Vikings team? Like how?

After now reading you thinking McCoy would be a good hire & STILL believe Cousins is anything more than a sub-par QB, I think everyone should be fairly confident in Kyler making you eat massive crow.

 

[kerouac9]

Baker Mayfield had one of the top five best rookie performances ever, statistically, and his team was rarely ever in the lead. That is not the baseline, and it's not really success, even.

I mean, I get it, I'm not Kyler's biggest fan, but let's give the kid some leeway here in terms of expectations. I will absolutely root for the guy to be the best player of all time in his rookie season, but the truth is, Rome wasn't built in a day, so if he can put up 3500 total yards, I'll probably be jazzed.

Maybe, but I’m guessing six of the 10 or so best rookie seasons have come in the last decade or so. RG3, Luck, Watson, Prescott, Mayfield, have all raised the bar for what’s possible. Especially when you fold mobility in with arm talent.

It would be extremely disappointing if Murray, considering everything, had a rookie season that looked more like Mile Glennons.

 

[PACardsFan]

The new Football Outsider's annual says that "the 2019 Arizona Cardinals may be the most thrilling awful team we've seen in some time." They're projecting six wins.

I think that it won't be Murray's struggles that cause this team to lag behind; it's going to be the WR corps.

Anyone with any football sense should realize that rookie WR's generally take time to develop. Even though there's nice potential with the WR's we drafted, it would be folly to think they'll all produce in year 1. I want to believe that we have the potential for 6+ wins, but I also think our young WR's will hold us back this year.

 

[Krangodnzr]

lmao

(if someone else can reply with that, so can I)

The coaching staff last year had at least called NFL plays in some sense. We have a head coach who couldn't even win in college. It completely baffles me that anyone is saying we're "better," when really, it's just "different." This is tailor-made to be the worst team in NFL history.

If we suck, and suck hard, it's going to be a "well no ****, look at all of the stupid moves you made."

I hope to death that I'm wrong. But there's nothing on paper indicating success here from an objective standpoint.



This is insanely implausible. It would be the best rookie QB performance of all time. We've gotta stop this. If Kyler has a decent season, we should celebrate in the streets. If these numbers are put up, we are a 13 win football team. This isn't gonna happen.

I'm trying to be more positive, but come on people... six wins and 3000 yards of offense from the QB should be considered a real major success, and what we should be hoping for if this was the right hire and draft decision.

3000 yards of offense is Rosen numbers.

3000 yards of offense is 187.5 yards per game. That is a subpar number. It's not good at all. I expect a THOUSAND more yards than you between rushing and passing.

If Murray gets only 3000 yards, this offense will be McCoy-like. I think you're tempering your expectations more than you need to.

At a minimum, Murray will probably average 250 yards per game. That's 4000 yards of offense. I'm talking passing and rushing. It's not insane.

What's insane is to expect 3000 yards of offense. That's nonsense.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Who cares if they were bad in numerous places before they got here?

Still baffles me that the FO went & hired a guy that got fired twice in less than a year in Mike McCoy. The second he got hired is the day I knew last season was going to be worthless. Don’t give a damn if they called plays in the league before.

I remember how negative you were about McCoy. I was trying to be positive and I took the stance that he had tremendous success in Denver. I was way wrong, bought the hype even though the track record clearly showed it was an awful hire.

Yes, K2 has not called plays in the NFL, but he was easily one of the best in college football WITH inferior talent.

K2 should at least be a competent play caller.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Maybe, but I’m guessing six of the 10 or so best rookie seasons have come in the last decade or so. RG3, Luck, Watson, Prescott, Mayfield, have all raised the bar for what’s possible. Especially when you fold mobility in with arm talent.

It would be extremely disappointing if Murray, considering everything, had a rookie season that looked more like Mile Glennons.

Glennon threw 19 TDs.

I believe that Prescott is the model for average NFL QB.

I agree. If a QB is going to be a good pro, they will often show it during their rookie seasons. As @Chris_Sanders demonstrated, the majority of QBs who had seasons like Josh Rosen, ended up being pretty bad pro QBs.

The path for Murray being successful is pretty clear. K2s offense works at least moderately well. Fitz plays to his 3 year average. Kirk plays better. One of the rookie receivers is a decent contributor. David Johnson hits around 4 yards a carry and is better used in the passing game. The offensive line gives up like 10 fewer sacks.

 

[BigRedRage]

lmao

(if someone else can reply with that, so can I)

The coaching staff last year had at least called NFL plays in some sense. We have a head coach who couldn't even win in college. It completely baffles me that anyone is saying we're "better," when really, it's just "different." This is tailor-made to be the worst team in NFL history.

If we suck, and suck hard, it's going to be a "well no ****, look at all of the stupid moves you made."

I hope to death that I'm wrong. But there's nothing on paper indicating success here from an objective standpoint.



This is insanely implausible. It would be the best rookie QB performance of all time. We've gotta stop this. If Kyler has a decent season, we should celebrate in the streets. If these numbers are put up, we are a 13 win football team. This isn't gonna happen.

I'm trying to be more positive, but come on people... six wins and 3000 yards of offense from the QB should be considered a real major success, and what we should be hoping for if this was the right hire and draft decision.

We hired a guy that if we made OC, could be gone one year later after a successful season to become a HC. Hiring him as HC right away but on a contigency of building an experienced roster was a good move. This whole didnt win in college thing holds no weight with me when college is VERY top heavy. It's no different than pimping Murrays record in college when he played for a major powerhouse and SHOULD have an amazing record. In both instances, they are both talented and good and their body of work on the field is more important than their win loss record.

Honestly, KK's body of work gives me more confidence than Murrays. I hope they both kill it though.

 

[Krangodnzr]

We hired a guy that if we made OC, could be gone one year later after a successful season to become a HC. Hiring him as HC right away but on a contigency of building an experienced roster was a good move. This whole didnt win in college thing holds no weight with me when college is VERY top heavy. It's no different than pimping Murrays record in college when he played for a major powerhouse and SHOULD have an amazing record. In both instances, they are both talented and good and their body of work on the field is more important than their win loss record.

Honestly, KK's body of work gives me more confidence than Murrays. I hope they both kill it though.

Keim said the same thing basically. The considered the idea of hiring a K2 as offensive coordinator, but if it was successful, you probably lose the guy quickly.

This is why I'm a huge fan of the move. IMO the current NFL rewards great offense much more than it rewards a great defense. You can throw the Patriots out of this argument because of the Brady-Belichick deal with Satan.

 

[blindseyed]

GUYS, STOP MAKING THIS ANOTHER KYLER ARGUMENT THREAD IT'S FOR TRAINING CAMP UPDATES!!

 

[PACardsFan]

I remember how negative you were about McCoy. I was trying to be positive and I took the stance that he had tremendous success in Denver. I was way wrong, bought the hype even though the track record clearly showed it was an awful hire.

Yes, K2 has not called plays in the NFL, but he was easily one of the best in college football WITH inferior talent.

K2 should at least be a competent play caller.

I recently watched last year's game between Oklahoma & Texas Tech. Until TT's QB went down just before the half, K2 was clearly calling a better game than Lincoln Riley was. Had the kid not been injured, I believe TT would have won that game & gone to 6-3. I don't follow TT, so I have no idea if their starting QB played again after that injury. That alone would explain why TT ended up with a losing record. It did look pretty serious. The kid who backed up the starter couldn't throw the ball a lick, so K2 had to simplify the offense considerably. Until that injury, I was actually very impressed with K2's coaching.

 

[kerouac9]

Glennon threw 19 TDs.

I believe that Prescott is the model for average NFL QB.

I agree. If a QB is going to be a good pro, they will often show it during their rookie seasons. As @Chris_Sanders demonstrated, the majority of QBs who had seasons like Josh Rosen, ended up being pretty bad pro QBs.

The path for Murray being successful is pretty clear. K2s offense works at least moderately well. Fitz plays to his 3 year average. Kirk plays better. One of the rookie receivers is a decent contributor. David Johnson hits around 4 yards a carry and is better used in the passing game. The offensive line gives up like 10 fewer sacks.

Dak Prescott went 13-3 as a rookie, completing nearly 68% of his passes and throwing 23 TDs against 4 INTs and 8 YPA. He had another 6 rushing TDs. He was exceptional as a rookie.

Now, he had exceptional talent supporting him including an All-World offensive line, and he hasn't reached those heights again with a lesser supporting cast. Still, last year he had 22 TDs, 8 INTs and another 6 TDs rushing.

 

[Garthshort]

Do all of the players have to pass a conditioning test before they are cleared to practice?

 

[Solar7]

How would we be closer to a 6-8 team last year with Cousins if he could barely get 8 wins with a way more talented Vikings team? Like how?

After now reading you thinking McCoy would be a good hire & STILL believe Cousins is anything more than a sub-par QB, I think everyone should be fairly confident in Kyler making you eat massive crow.

With even slightly more adequate QB play, we would have beaten the Bears, Seahawks twice, and the Raiders. Each of those games were decided by 3 points or less. I know you hate Cousins, but do you really think he would have played worse than the product the combo of Bradford and Rosen put on the field?

Not to mention we would have had three additional draft picks, someone like Derwin James or Leighton Van Der Esch. Look, I'm not saying it would have made us a better team in the long run, but I really believe Cousins could have mustered an additional 10 points out of the team.