Ok Suns, Give me Dice & Tag!

[Goldfield]

Those have to be our guys...

Amare is entering his 3rd year. He is ready to explode. Get him some veteran help at center so he can focus on playing PF 100%.

Ostertag will give us the size downlow we have needed for along time. He does a very good job at doing "his" role. He will Blockshots & Rebound. Not to mention easy put backs when teams focus ALL their attention on Amare. A solid rotation at the 5.

Dice Give us alot of flexability, He will probably get half the min's at center, while backing up Amare at PF. He give us a very skilled guy who can hit a jumper & he isnt worried about being "the man". Also a very good locker room guy who teach Amare ALOT IMO. A very good rotation at the 4.

SF-(Marion & Zarko) Marion is a 20/10 guy everynight, he really is a perfect SF(fast, good on both ends of the floor, athletic, good character), The Suns took a chance he would turn into a top notch player and gave him a max contract. He is overpaid, but he also is a mismatch for just about any other SF, and he does bring it every night. If he would just take the ball to the basket, and create fouls his game would go to another level.

Zarko showed glimpses of being a factor when on the court. His slashing & Passing abilities could become outstanding. He is weak on defence but that isnt because he doesnt try. We may have a very very good rotation at the 3.

SG-(JJ & Barbosa) The 2 may be our weakest spot(if we sign Dice & Tag), JJ IMO is an all around player. Like Marion he does EVERYTHING well. Some say he doesnt do anything GREAT. I feel he just needs more time to develope. The guy is just a hair older than Amare, and he may prove to be our 2nd best option. Amare & JJ will be our 1-2 punch IMO.

With no real backup at SG, I think Barbosa should see alot of time here. He is a defensive pest who gets alot of steals. He also has a deadly spot up jumper. He may be a very nice rotational backup.

PG-(Nash & Barbosa) Nash is gunna be the biggest improvment this team gets. Some people think we overpaid. I think we made a very good move. Not only to Improve OUR team, but also hurt a division rival in Dallas.

Nash is gunna take this ATHLETIC team and RUN RUN RUN! He will create MANY easy baskets. He will make our players perform on a higher level much like Kidd does with their ALL OUT play on the court. Not to mention he will run a very efficient half court game getting easy looks for Amare & Others, and KILLING teams that try to sit in the paint on D.

Dice, Ostertag, Jake
Amare, Dice, Lampe
Marion, Zarko, Jacobsen
JJ, Barbosa
Nash, Barbosa

That rotation has alot of veteran leadership, will allow this team to compete, and still has alot of room for our young guys to get in the game and learn...

Durring the season we try to move Eisley & Jacobsen to create more cap flexability for the future.

 

[SweetD]

Your forgetting Jacobsen sure he will not be a great player but he is a good role player the problem is he just doesn't know it yet. He wants to be a starter he has been a starter in College and was very good, but he need to learn he just doesn't have the skills to be an everyday starter.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

I am so against Tag, its not even funny.

He is a system guy. We dont have a system.

He is a slow guy. We don't do well with slow centers.

He is going to want at least the MLE, for at least 4 years. Why would we want to pay that.


Like I said in the other thread. Get Dice for under 2.5 if possible. If not, to hell with him. Sit on the space, wait for someone to want to unload an overpaid big man for nothing.

I would much rather eat the last few years of some stiffs contract, then offer a new one.

 

[Goldfield]

I dont love Ostertag but he is a servicable BIG, with legitimate size.

I would only offer a 2 year deal, maybe a 3 year deal with a team option on the last year.

Pretty much the same contract length for Dice also. But I would give Dice a 3 year deal without an option.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

I would only offer a 2 year deal, maybe a 3 year deal with a team option on the last year.

Pretty much the same contract length for Dice also. But I would give Dice a 3 year deal without an option.

I doubt Tag signs a 2 year deal. Maybe Dice.......

 

[F-Dog]

First, the Suns can't afford both of them.

Second, the thing I think of whenever Ostertag's name comes up is, "Who else is available?"

Big Jake?
The Vanilla Gorilla?
That other white center from the Hawks, Collier?
The guy with the real (not metaphorical) heart problem, Rebraca?
Suns veteran Ben Handlogten? (Wasn't he stealing minutes from Tag anyway when he was injured?)
Ales Chan?

If you're talking about getting one of those guys for a year, or getting Ostertag for four years at three times the price...I think the choice is pretty obvious, myself.

 

[slinslin]

Why can the Suns not afford both of them with 7-9M$ caproom remaining?!?

 

[F-Dog]

Why can the Suns not afford both of them with 7-9M$ caproom remaining?!?

Suns cap room=$7.5m

McDyess--MLE ($5m)
Ostertag--$4m

Total= $9m

 

[cepstrum]

First, the Suns can't afford both of them.

Second, the thing I think of whenever Ostertag's name comes up is, "Who else is available?"

Big Jake?
The Vanilla Gorilla?
That other white center from the Hawks, Collier?
The guy with the real (not metaphorical) heart problem, Rebraca?
Suns veteran Ben Handlogten? (Wasn't he stealing minutes from Tag anyway when he was injured?)
Ales Chan?

If you're talking about getting one of those guys for a year, or getting Ostertag for four years at three times the price...I think the choice is pretty obvious, myself.

True tag isnt great, but considering he gives you 1.8 blocks a game, Id take that over nothing. Thats more than you can say about big jake or any of the other guys on that list. He is slow and goofy though

 

[F-Dog]

True tag isnt great, but considering he gives you 1.8 blocks a game, Id take that over nothing. Thats more than you can say about big jake or any of the other guys on that list. He is slow and goofy though

The problem is that signing Ostertag hamstrings the Suns in free agency next year, and his contract will be a mill-stone for years.

If the Suns just keep from signing Tag this year, the team he does sign with will be happy to trade him away next year, and probably include a draft pick in the bargain.


I wonder whether it's too late to get Elden Campbell from the Pistons...

 

[George O'Brien]

Suns cap room=$7.5m

McDyess--MLE ($5m)
Ostertag--$4m

Total= $9m

No one is going to give Dice the MLE. This is a guy who has had FOUR knee sugeries and has had one month of pretty good play. Everybody loves him for the veteran minimum and a few for the lower level exemption ($1.6 million), but no one loves him at a much higher price. He is just too big a risk and memories of Mourning are still pretty fresh.

Right now there are a number of healthy players who will go ahead of Dice. Brian Skinner of Milwaukee for example started for the Bucks last season. He averaged 10.5 ppg and 7.3 rpg playing 28.2 minutes. Skinner is unlikely to get more than MLE, but he is certainly more likely to get that money than Dice.

Blount is another guy who will only get MLE - and he averaged almost a double double the last two months of the season.

Etan Thomas and Swift are RFA's who are unlikely to get offers of more than MLE.

The full MLE is generally being used for guys who are expected to be either starters or at least play close to 30 minutes a game. It is not used for a backup player with a history of injuries unless forced to. (Kidd put pressure on the Nets to sign Mourning against the better judgement).

Yes, it only takes one idiot. If it happens, we can wave goodbye to Dice. But if not, he will be available for less than $3 million.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I wouldn't mind giving Dice 3 million or even more. We have it. It shows good faith. If we are not going to spend it on anyone else, its oK.

Just make it one year with another on a team option.

 

[George O'Brien]

I wouldn't mind giving Dice 3 million or even more. We have it. It shows good faith. If we are not going to spend it on anyone else, its oK.

Just make it one year with another on a team option.

There were reports that Detroit was talking about "incentives" when talking about Dice. I think the Suns could try to work something out along those lines.

At this point I think the Suns have made Dice an offer and his agent is trying to find a better one. The final number won't be fixed until they know if they can get Tag (as is widely reported) and exactly where the cap is. If the cap is set at $45 million, that would presumably leave around $7 million in cap space. That should be enough to get both Dice (up to $3 million) and Tag (up to $4 million) if some other team does not come along with an extraordinary offer.

 

[Goldfield]

I like the idea of having a solid rotation of players at the 5. There arnt enough talented BIG's to start for every team and play 40 pluss min's.

A combo of Dice & Tag give us a talented & Athletic guy(Dice) on the floor with Amare & Marion. Then when we need Size out there Ostertag is a solid veteran who is still somewhat effective when on the floor. Not to mention Little Jake in there to give us some energy.

Dice & Tag adds alot of flexability at the Center position & also at the PF spot with Dice able to spell Amare...

Again, Tag gives us the size, while Dice bolsters 2 positions of need for us.
Starters
Dice
Amare
Marion
JJ
Nash

That is an awfully athletic team that can rebound, blockshots, & run like the wind.

Backups arent bad either

Ostertag
Dice
Zarko
Jacobsen(weakest spot)
Barbosa

 

[George O'Brien]

The key will be the money. I think it is POSSIBLE to get both, but I'm not sure there will be enough cap space if other teams start bidding.

The odd part is that neither Dice nor Tag make a huge amount of sense on their own. Dice is too small to play center against maybe 1/4 of the guys the Suns would meet while Tag is too slow to play center against up to half the guys out there. Separately they don't solve the Suns needs, but together they might.

 

[elindholm]

Etan Thomas and Swift are RFA's who are unlikely to get offers of more than MLE.

A couple of weeks ago I would have agreed with you about Etan Thomas. But seeing the deals that Foyle and (especially) Okur have apparently agreed to, I now think Thomas will definitely get something above MLE level.

Swift's qualifying offer is for $6.0 million, so I think it's very unlikely that he'll agree to an MLE contract unless he's very concerned about injuries.

I think your generalization about who gets the MLE may have been true in the past, but so far it doesn't look like it will be true this summer.

 

[George O'Brien]

Etan Thomas and Swift are RFA's who are unlikely to get offers of more than MLE.

A couple of weeks ago I would have agreed with you about Etan Thomas. But seeing the deals that Foyle and (especially) Okur have apparently agreed to, I now think Thomas will definitely get something above MLE level.

Swift's qualifying offer is for $6.0 million, so I think it's very unlikely that he'll agree to an MLE contract unless he's very concerned about injuries.

I think your generalization about who gets the MLE may have been true in the past, but so far it doesn't look like it will be true this summer.

I think Swift has a better chance of going to one of the teams with the extra cap space than Thomas. Swift could go to Utah.

 

[elindholm]

Thomas could go to Phoenix.

 

[Goldfield]

The key will be the money. I think it is POSSIBLE to get both, but I'm not sure there will be enough cap space if other teams start bidding.

The odd part is that neither Dice nor Tag make a huge amount of sense on their own. Dice is too small to play center against maybe 1/4 of the guys the Suns would meet while Tag is too slow to play center against up to half the guys out there. Separately they don't solve the Suns needs, but together they might.

I have to agee, I dont think Tag is the answer at Center. But I truely think the Combo of Dice & Tag would be a very good upgrade for what we have had in along time.

We dont need much from the 5 spot. We just need it NOT to be a weakness. Dice & Tag will be exactly what we need IMO.

 

[coloradosun]

If we can't get Dice and Tag, then we should get Dice and Wesley Person. Or Dice and Big Jake. We could have a Suns Reunion Offseason.

 

[Chaplin]

All this talk about getting a FA center is worthless if the reports are true and we are indeed going to sign Quentin Richardson.

 

[Goldfield]

All this talk about getting a FA center is worthless if the reports are true and we are indeed going to sign Quentin Richardson.

You nailed that one buddy!