OK, we got the Spurs, now what?

[Cheesebeef]

The Suns have wanted this grudge match for a full year. Getting revenge for last year's debacle has been their top priority, and they have been more focused in their games against the Spurs than against any other team in the league.

The Spurs aren't just another elite team, or even just another defending champion. They are a deeply depised bully that cheats and gets away with it. The Suns have drawn up their plans, hired reinforcements, and appealed to their higher powers. This is THE series of the D'Antoni/Nash era, and everyone on the roster knows it.

If the Suns prevail, I won't be surprised at all to see a massive psychological letdown in the next round. If they lose, it will devastate the franchise. It's almost a no-win scenario, but it's like one of those movie scenes where the good guy is mortally wounded but has one more bullet in his gun, and uses it to take out the bad guy just before he himself expires.

Winning this series won't provide the Suns with anything more than a moral victory, but it's all they have left.

I disagree, depending on how the playoffs are laid out for us. If we do win this series and have Dallas facing us, there's more than enough bad blood to gte us through that series without an emotional letdown and if the Lakers and Kobe are waiting for Shaq and our boys in the WCF, you better believe between DA V. Phil, Kobe v. Shaq and two years of playoff battles, there's gonna be some belly in the fire for that.

however, I could see a monumental letdown if we got NO in round 2.

 

[SirStefan32]

This series could be really important to decide whether Duncan or Shaq is the most dominant player of this era too.

I'd say that Shaq has proven time and time again that he was the most dominant player of this era. If somebody beats him at this stage of his career, I don't think his status as the most dominant player is in any jeopardy.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I'd say that Shaq has proven time and time again that he was the most dominant player of this era. If somebody beats him at this stage of his career, I don't think his status as the most dominant player is in any jeopardy.

i don't know about that. During this era, Shaq's got 1 MVP, 3 Finals MVPs and 4 titles and Duncan's got 2 MVPS, 3 Finals MVPs and 4 titles. Seems kinda even to me.

 

[ambchang_]

I am surprised nobody mentioned that having Shaq can help minimize Stoudemire's foul trouble, or is that a given? Stoudemire is such a poor defender that he often finds himself out of position when defending the paint, ending up in a foul. With Shaq taking on that responsibility, Stoudemire won't be counted on to defend the paint.

Also, Duncan actually fares quite well against Shaq in his career. The person that gave Duncan the most trouble one on one is, and has always been, Rasheed Wallace. The Lakers and the Spurs, from 1999 to 2004, faced off 5 times in the playoffs, with the Lakers coming up on top 3 times, and the Spurs twice. However, also notice the supporting casts of Shaq's vs. Duncan's. Shaq can effectively defend Duncan in stretches, but due to foul trouble and stamina issues, he is rarely asked to defend Duncan throughout the whole game, even in Shaq's prime.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I am surprised nobody mentioned that having Shaq can help minimize Stoudemire's foul trouble, or is that a given?

that's a given. no one here is under any illusion believing amare's even an average defender. i bet he still picks up two fouls early in Game 1.

 

[sly fly]

The Suns have wanted this grudge match for a full year. Getting revenge for last year's debacle has been their top priority, and they have been more focused in their games against the Spurs than against any other team in the league.

The Spurs aren't just another elite team, or even just another defending champion. They are a deeply depised bully that cheats and gets away with it. The Suns have drawn up their plans, hired reinforcements, and appealed to their higher powers. This is THE series of the D'Antoni/Nash era, and everyone on the roster knows it.

If the Suns prevail, I won't be surprised at all to see a massive psychological letdown in the next round. If they lose, it will devastate the franchise. It's almost a no-win scenario, but it's like one of those movie scenes where the good guy is mortally wounded but has one more bullet in his gun, and uses it to take out the bad guy just before he himself expires.

Winning this series won't provide the Suns with anything more than a moral victory, but it's all they have left.

If PHX gets by SA, I'd bet my last dollar that this team rides the wave of emotion into the Finals.

I just don't see any one player stopping the Beast. Shaq can hold down the fort against Cry Baby. And, Nash has been waiting all year for the playoffs to start. Take away Tony Longoria's left, and he'll start chucking jumpers.

The key two players are Bell and Diaw. Need major production from both. Bell needs to become the dagger again, and Diaw has to take advantage of the mismatches.

I'm already sick to my stomach, and really don't find watching playoff ball enjoyable anymore... that is until we get the ring.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I'm already sick to my stomach, and really don't find watching playoff ball enjoyable anymore... that is until we get the ring.

i'm with ya Sly, couldn't have said it better myself. I was talking about my angst/relative pessimism going into this series in another thread and someone who labeled me a "bad fan" asked how I even "enjoy" the playoffs? I kind of shut him up when I responded: I really don't. All I care about is winning and that comes after the game's over.

 

[SirStefan32]

i don't know about that. During this era, Shaq's got 1 MVP, 3 Finals MVPs and 4 titles and Duncan's got 2 MVPS, 3 Finals MVPs and 4 titles. Seems kinda even to me.

Depends how you look at it and what criteria you use, I suppose.
My criteria is something like this:

1. Take Shaq on his best day and Duncan on his best day, and let them go after each other. If Shaq's on my team, I am quite confident my team's gonna have a major advantage. Apply same logic to having those two on a average day, or even a bad day. Shaq beats Duncan head-tohead every single time.

2. "most dominant" to me anyway, means "most difficult to stop."
There were Centers and PFs that have slow Duncan down- Garnett did it a few times, Webber did it a few times, Shaq did it, etc. Nobody, however, has ever slowed down Shaq, except for Hakeem in Shaq's first year or two.

When I think of Duncan, I think, "The most fundamentally sound big man in the history of the game, with the exception of the great Hakeem."

When I think of Shaq, I think, "The unstoppable monster and the most dominant player I have ever seen."

I guess it's kinda like arguing who's the MVP- everyone has their own criteria, and it's very subjective, for the most part. To me, Duncan will always be an amazing player- he can do it all, and he can do it all very well. He is probably the closest thing to Hakeem we will ever see.
Shaq will always be "the most dominant player."

 

[sly fly]

i'm with ya Sly, couldn't have said it better myself. I was talking about my angst/relative pessimism going into this series in another thread and someone who labeled me a "bad fan" asked how I even "enjoy" the playoffs? I kind of shut him up when I responded: I really don't. All I care about is winning and that comes after the game's over.

Yep. I'm not too pleasant to be around during the game. Some people want to eat nachos and cotton candy, and talk about the commercials. There aren't too many of us hardcore. Some people just don't understand.

I'm going to get my hands on some tix for Friday, and pray that they're near the Spurs bench.

 

[mitch cumsteen]

I'll say this about this series, I don't think either set of fans or coaches wanted to see this matchup in the first round.

That is the damn truth.

shaq ended up helping our defense more than anyone could have imagined b/c it allowed all of our players to defend the right guy rather than struggling with mismatches. if anything, we are now the team that imposes the mismatch rather than reacting to it.

I suppose... but it goes both ways. You still forced a lot of mismatches on offense. Still, I don't think there's any question that having a shot blocker like Shaq has improved your defense. We will see if the Spurs can exploit his pick and roll defense with Parker and Duncan.

now if parker is hitting his J consistently, yeah, we'll struggle, but in the past he's beaten us with layups. i'll take my chances with his inconsistent J verses layups.

I really think this is the key to the series. If Parker is hitting, you have to play him much differently and it opens up the entire offense. He's looked better the past two games than he has all season.

I know Shaq has shut down Duncan in the last two games, but to say that he's owned him his whole career is not accurate. Go back and watch the 2003 playoffs, when the Spurs ended the Laker dynasty and shut down the Forum. Duncan was unstoppable. Clearly, that was 5 years ago, but ask yourself which one has aged more gracefully since then? I don't expect Shaq to bring it every night during this series at this stage of his career.

All that aside... the Spurs have played so poorly over the last couple of weeks, that I don't know what to make of them. I can't tell if they just don't have it anymore, or if they've been treating the last couple of weeks like the pre-season. They were awesome last night, but Utah had more incentive to tank than play hard, especially after the first 5 minutes of the game. We will find out soon enough, I suppose.

 

[jandaman]

Parker and Ginobili will be the winning tickets for the Spurs.

Those 2 were the ones that broke the Suns back time and time again, game 6 last playoffs come to mind. Suns supposed to be "desperate"... backs to the wall.. but it was Parker and Ginobili who came out with a gun in each hands all blazing, taking to prisoner... whilst the Suns took it... didnt even foul hard nor played physical..


sometimes you just have to fight dirty with dirtier.... not injure... or harm... but just message that if you play hard... we'll play harder...

 

[az1965]

It's official, we have the Spurs. If we win the series, is the Shaq trade officially worth it? If we lose will people look at the Shaq trade as a bomb? I know Marion was unlikely to get us past the Spurs. I am talking about the NBA pundits, who will undoubtedly point out Shaq was supposed to get us to the NBA Finals.

I'm not sure this is true. We were right there last year if not for the suspensions. Who knows what the outcome would have been. We will never know. But, I do know we were 2-2 coming back to Phoenix. We gave a pretty good fight in the 5th playing with 6 players most of the night.

 

[satex]

good luck

Just stopped by over here to say good luck to the Suns. Here's to a hard fought series with no serious injuries.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Just stopped by over here to say good luck to the Suns. Here's to a hard fought series with no serious injuries.

If you have any friends that post like you, bring them over. There are some knowledgable Spurs fans, even at Spurstalk, but its hard to filter through the crap.

 

[LavaLamp2]

As far as Manu and Parker go, Between Giricek, Bell and Hill guarding them, and Amare and Shaq waiting in the paint, they shouldn't be as big of a problem as they were in the past. Additionally, since there will be no need to double Duncan, it should eliminate easy points for those guys.

I like this match-up, I really do.

Do you think Strawberry will get some minutes defending Parker or Manu?

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Do you think Strawberry will get some minutes defending Parker or Manu?

I hope so. But Parker usually rests when Nash does. Ginobili is too strong for D.J.

 

[Covert Rain]

that's a given. no one here is under any illusion believing amare's even an average defender. i bet he still picks up two fouls early in Game 1.

Say what you want about Amare's defense but on the flip side nobody on the Spurs has proved they can guard Amare. Also, I don't think Duncan or any other big man on the Spurs can keep Shaq out of the lane.

To me the X-factor will be keep players (aside from Parker and Duncan) from going off. I think if both Duncan and Parker have good games but we keep everybody else in check we are good.

We just can't afford to Duncan, Parker and Gifloppy all of have good games on the same night.

 

[nowagimp]

I hope so. But Parker usually rests when Nash does. Ginobili is too fast for D.J.

DCR, manu is certainly not too fast for DJ, but DJ is a freakin rook, bites on the fakes and doesnt understand NBA defense, w/regard to body positioning. DJ is likely faster than manu, and not by a little. He's just not ready to guard a guy like manu, who has more bball smarts and guile than most teams have. If manu was really fast, raja would have no shot guarding him. This is why raja mostly doesnt guard TP, he's not fast enough. Hill(or marion) can use his length(a la prince) to make up for the speed defecit by backing off defensively, raja cant as he's not long enough. Remember pargo(NOH), he was too fast for Raja off the dribble.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Say what you want about Amare's defense but on the flip side nobody on the Spurs has proved they can guard Amare.

while that's true when Amare's on the floor, it hasn't even mattered this year because he's taken himself out of games with stupid fouls on D and out of control fouls on offense. You do realize Amare only averaged 17.5 ppg against them this year, right?

 

[dreamcastrocks]

DCR, manu is certainly not too fast for DJ, but DJ is a freakin rook, bites on the fakes and doesnt understand NBA defense, w/regard to body positioning. DJ is likely faster than manu, and not by a little. He's just not ready to guard a guy like manu, who has more bball smarts and guile than most teams have. If manu was really fast, raja would have no shot guarding him. This is why raja mostly doesnt guard TP, he's not fast enough. Hill(or marion) can use his length(a la prince) to make up for the speed defecit by backing off defensively, raja cant as he's not long enough. Remember pargo(NOH), he was too fast for Raja off the dribble.

Yeah, I meant to say strong. I edited it a couple of minutes before you post. Probably too late.

 

[The Man In Black]

I wouldn't say that Pop "gets what he wants" with the extra time. He just makes the most out of it. It's not like he tells the league that he demands that they have 3 days off in between games.

'
DCR...I meant that if Pop gets what he wants ie, his maxims of strong, solid defense, share the ball, and work for the best shot, then it's one for the thumb time. No coach or in Pop's case, executive VP of basketball operations, can tell the NBA when to schedule the games. Pop is still pissed off about having to play a Friday night game and then play a Sunday afternoon game against the Mavs a few years ago.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I know Shaq has shut down Duncan in the last two games, but to say that he's owned him his whole career is not accurate. Go back and watch the 2003 playoffs, when the Spurs ended the Laker dynasty and shut down the Forum. .

trust me, the two people you quote in your post do NOT think shaq has owned duncan. you're replying to two of the "realist/pessimists" on this board.

 

[Mr Bottomtooth]

There are some knowledgable Spurs fans, even at Spurstalk.

lol What are you talking about? There's lots of great members there.

 

[nowagimp]

I know Shaq has shut down Duncan in the last two games, but to say that he's owned him his whole career is not accurate. Go back and watch the 2003 playoffs, when the Spurs ended the Laker dynasty and shut down the Forum. Duncan was unstoppable. Clearly, that was 5 years ago, but ask yourself which one has aged more gracefully since then? I don't expect Shaq to bring it every night during this series at this stage of his career.

the key to the suns against the spurs is to not allow TD to create easy shots for guys that cannot create their own. Shaq can play TD man to man without a double and then the spurs team FG% goes down because all those support players whos defensive man doubled in the past are no longer open for the easy one. This approach has allowed the suns to hold down the spurs FG% to under 40% in the two games since shaq arrived. If that trend continues, I like the suns chances against the spurs. I am just glad the spurs gave away scola and kept oberto this past offseason, BIG difference there.

 

[Mr Bottomtooth]

Being how I'm a Spurs fan, gotta give it to them in 6.