Old News: The Refs Love the Spurs

Bufalay

ASFN Lifer
Joined
Jul 21, 2006
Posts
4,679
Reaction score
786
http://wisinsider.blogspot.com/2007/05/breaking-news-spurs-get-more-calls.html

This guy tries to prove that the Spurs get "all the calls" and tries to explain why. It was written during last years playoffs, maybe you've already seen it.

Breaking News: Spurs Get More Calls

Okay, the title was just to get your attention. I have proof of nothing and this is not news (and even if it was, it wouldn't be of the "breaking" variety). It is merely the long-promised post where I theorize the "why" part of this whole "The Spurs get all the calls" examination.

The other night I tried my best to objectively watch every single close call in Game Two, to see if San Antonio was really getting the benefit of the whistles. I admit this is conjecture and opinion and everything else you could use to assail the results, but the findings seemed to indicate that the Spurs enjoyed a sizable advantage when it came to the officiating. And this was on a night where the Suns actually got more breaks than a normal S.A. opponent and that featured a fourth quarter blowout that took the refs out of play. Many in the comments section and in emails have surmised that if the Spurs still enjoyed a healthy advantage in that game, it only proves how massive the edge is on a normal night.

That said, the little "study" I performed (and likely will never repeat due to the six hours it took to watch the game) doesn't really prove anything. All it does is reinforce something that many basketball fans already think: that San Antonio gets more calls than anyone. More to the point, that the Spurs are able to get away with more fouls than any other team in the NBA.

The "why" is of far more interest to me, because it seems almost impossible to explain. Why indeed? The Spurs don't have many likable players. There are stars on the roster, but not much star power in the traditional NBA sense. They are in a small market. They were involved in two NBA Finals this decade (2003 against New Jersey and 2005 against Detroit) that basically nobody watched.

If the Spurs are really getting all these calls (or all these no-calls), which it seems they are, then the explanation would have to be something along the lines of a conspiracy theory, right? The NBA has to "want" this. But as I just pointed out, there appears to be no reason at all why the NBA would want the Spurs to advance year after year, and certainly no reason to instruct its officials to make that happen, at the risk of a major scandal.

So if the league isn't mandating it, what other explanation could there be?

Ultimately, I've narrowed down a few possibilities to one thing and it was suggested the other day by my brother, Drew. He opined that the referees simply process San Antonio's actions differently than they do the actions of other teams. In other words, they've seen Bruce Bowen foul so many times, on so many plays, for so many years, that they just view a Bruce Bowen play differently at this point. Bruce Bowen shoving an offensive player or grabbing a guy's leg looks normal after all these years.

In a previous blog - while hinting at conclusion I would reach in this post - I used the phrase "systematic desensitization." I like it because it sounded good, but also because there might be some truth to it.

Think of television shows. When we watch 24 (or, I guess, when we used to watch 24), Jack Bauer can bit a guy's neck or shoot someone in the face or hang a terrorist with a big metal chain and we barely bat an eye. Spartan warriors can slice off the heads of Xerxes' Immortals and we are are impassive. Yet when Bear Grylls kneels down to chew on some raw zebra flesh during an episode of Man v. Wild, it is enough to cause us to recoil in horror. This is a result of desensitization. We see people get killed on TV all the time, but we don't often watch stranded men devouring the flanks of zebras. So the former is just background noise while the latter is jolting. I'm not bringing this up to blame entertainment for all of society's woes, or anything like that, merely pointing out that we can indeed become desensitized to seeing certain things.

And it seems to follow that the same thing could happen to NBA officials. They are used to Vince Carter avoiding contact at all cost, so when he puts his head down in the lane, they are jolted and start thinking "charge" right away. But if LeBron goes crashing into the lane, they probably have to fight off a yawn. You are far more likely to see James get the benefit of a close call when he flies into the paint, and you will probably also see a lot more no-calls in those situations. They are just used to it. But a Vince Carter collision is like a Yeti sighting - so rare that there is no built-in reaction.

For another comparison, take Bruce Bowen and Quentin Ross. Bowen has been mauling offensive players for years, so nothing really jumps out at you. A forearm to the neck, two hands to the ribs, a foot slid under a shooter, two hands wrapped around a rolling screener, a leg whip ... we've seen it all before. But when Ross came into the league doing a lot of the same things, he was getting called for more fouls than anyone. The guy could barely stay on the court. The refs simply weren't used to it. Now Ross has been around for a while and I'm already noticing that he's getting away with more. A lot more. Part of it is no doubt based on "reputation" and I'm sure Ross has learned a few tricks, but the bigger factor seems to be that refs just get used to it and, in a way, become immune to certain conduct.

Which brings this back to the Spurs. Many have commented over the years on the benefit San Antonio enjoys from having Pop on the bench year after year. There is consistency, a sense of structure, and a collective memory in San Antonio that gives them a big advantage over other teams in the NBA. However, the long reign of Pop might have created another substantial, hard-to-prove, and often overlooked advantage: favorable officiating.

It seems entirely possible that the Spurs have worked to get to this point. That is, when Pop took over, I doubt they got the kind of calls and no-calls that they get now. But he insisted on a physical style of play and stuck with it. And over time, the refs became used to that style of play. They know - even if it isn't conscious knowledge - that every Spurs player is going to push and nudge and clutch and do a little flopping. And they've become so used to seeing it, so hardened and immune to it, so desensitized, that they just no longer recognize it for what it is. This is why I call it "systematic desensitization." Because it is a slow process that has taken place over time, possibly by design.

I can almost imagine Pop lording over a San Antonio practices back in the late 90's saying, "Listen, we're going to get called for a lot of fouls right now. But just stick with it, eventually they won't even notice it anymore."

Indeed, Pop's first full season on the bench (1997-98) saw the Spurs get called for 1,731 personal fouls. By the time Bruce Bowen had a "full" (2,000 minuets) season in San Antonio, that number was down to 1672 in 2002-03. This year, San Antonio got called for just 1,588 fouls. This, despite the fact that the league average for personal fouls has remained pretty constant (22.4 per game in 1997-98, 21.8 in 2002-03, and 22.3 this year). These are obviously rudimentary numbers, but they do tell a bit of a story; and one that seems to reinforce the idea that the Spurs have built a system that - over time - has created a certain immunity where personal fouls are concerned.

And that is how we reach the place we are at now. When the Spurs can literally commit dozens of fouls each night without getting the attention of the refs, the pundits, the fans, or even the opposition. Oh sure, many fans - especially opposing fans - get a sense that something is amiss, and there are probably a few players who shake their heads and wonder why it always seems like the Spurs are getting the calls, but for the most part, nobody seems to take mushc notice.

Well, this might be why. We are all just used to it. Immune. Desensitized.

And - Bruce Bowen aside - my conclusion is that this is far from cheating on the part of the Spurs or a conspiracy on the part of the NBA. It is sheer genius by Coach Pop. And you know what? San Antonio probably deserves it. When you find the best coach in the league and then keep him for the next decade, you have a right to enjoy these sorts of advantages. NBA seasons don't exist in a vacuum, but istead, string together over time. And keeping the same coach and players and style of play is bound to produce benefits. This appears to be one of them.

Okay, now I feel better about things.
 

nowagimp

Registered User
Joined
Nov 2, 2005
Posts
3,912
Reaction score
0
Location
Gilbert, AZ
I wouldnt be suprised if popovich, a former intelligence officer, knew alot about desensitization and human behavior. I also think the spurs method of having several players complain at once tends to deflect techs by officials. When 3-4 guys complain(nicely with body language), who do you call the tech on? I also think that when 3 guys complain in moderate terms, it gets alot of attention, at least as much as one guy going ballistic. Its almost like a court of public opinion. I also think the spurs talk alot to the refs during the game to smooth over the complaints. No its not a conspiracy, just human nature, psychology being used. This is why I dont think players should be allowed to talk to refs, perhaps only one designated player on the court. People wouldnt argue that human psychology is used all the time in politics and in life to manipulate people, but on this board they recoil at the thought it would be used in an NBA game to manipulate refs.
 

elindholm

edited for content
Joined
Sep 14, 2002
Posts
27,416
Reaction score
9,525
Location
L.A. area
I definitely agree that officials have become so desensitized to seeing Nash get shoved around on every play that they no longer call it. He takes as much punishment as Iverson, but something in Iverson's body language enables him to continue to get the calls he deserves.
 

tobiazz

Hall of Famer
Joined
Oct 28, 2003
Posts
2,153
Reaction score
4
I wouldnt be suprised if popovich, a former intelligence officer, knew alot about desensitization and human behavior. I also think the spurs method of having several players complain at once tends to deflect techs by officials. When 3-4 guys complain(nicely with body language), who do you call the tech on? I also think that when 3 guys complain in moderate terms, it gets alot of attention, at least as much as one guy going ballistic. Its almost like a court of public opinion. I also think the spurs talk alot to the refs during the game to smooth over the complaints. No its not a conspiracy, just human nature, psychology being used. This is why I dont think players should be allowed to talk to refs, perhaps only one designated player on the court. People wouldnt argue that human psychology is used all the time in politics and in life to manipulate people, but on this board they recoil at the thought it would be used in an NBA game to manipulate refs.

I second.
 

elindholm

edited for content
Joined
Sep 14, 2002
Posts
27,416
Reaction score
9,525
Location
L.A. area
This is why I dont think players should be allowed to talk to refs, perhaps only one designated player on the court.

I believe that technically that is the rule -- that only captains can talk to the officials about calls. Of course, when Nash tries to ask for an explanation for a call on a teammate, he gets T'ed up anyway...
 

Mainstreet

Cruisin' Mainstreet
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2003
Posts
117,117
Reaction score
57,293
I don't buy this "systematic desensitization" philosophy as an explanation. All the referees have to do is call a foul when they see one irregardless of the player or team... consistently and for all the games including the playoffs. The players can easily adjust. I've been watching basketball for too many years now and I still know a foul when I see one... I may not always like it (if it is against a Suns player) but I know a good call. Right now I can't think of another sport (there may be one) where the referees electively or selectively make calls or ignore fouls. Also in other sports referees usually don't anticipate fouls and call them even if they don't see it. However, this happens all the time in the NBA.
 
Last edited:

ambchang_

Registered
Joined
Feb 4, 2008
Posts
524
Reaction score
0
I definitely agree that officials have become so desensitized to seeing Nash get shoved around on every play that they no longer call it. He takes as much punishment as Iverson, but something in Iverson's body language enables him to continue to get the calls he deserves.

Even though Iverson gets about 320% of the FTAs Nash gets (713 vs. 223), fact is that he simply shoots much more from close range.

According to NBA hotspots, the shot attempts breakdown of the two players are as follows:
Nash Iverson
3 pters: 347 239 (Iverson 68.9% of Nash)
Long jumpers: 214 329 (AI 153.7% of SN)
Short Jumpers: 170 287 (AI 168.8% of SN)
Layups/dunks: 152 563 (AI 370.4% of SN)

People usually gets shooting fouls on layups, and the numbers bear this out.

Also, Nash only gets 7 techs this year, ranking #24 in the league. That doesn't sound like a lot especially given how vocal Nash has been to the refs this year.
 

elindholm

edited for content
Joined
Sep 14, 2002
Posts
27,416
Reaction score
9,525
Location
L.A. area
Even though Iverson gets about 320% of the FTAs Nash gets (713 vs. 223), fact is that he simply shoots much more from close range.

True. Most of the uncalled fouls on Nash are when he's trying to dish to a teammate after beating the defense, or when he gets "stripped" of the ball by having his arms held or pushed out of the way. Maybe he'd get to the line more if he took more of those shots himself.

Also, Nash only gets 7 techs this year, ranking #24 in the league. That doesn't sound like a lot especially given how vocal Nash has been to the refs this year.

How many of them are since the O'Neal trade? That's when the officials have really turned it on. It's almost as though now that the Suns have built themselves back into contenders, the league has to tear them down again. Or maybe everyone is just sick of O'Neal, which I could understand.
 

Griffin

ASFN Lifer
Joined
Oct 19, 2002
Posts
3,726
Reaction score
1
Location
EU
I think the author is partially true. I also see two more reasons:

1) The referees will always blow a number of calls per game; that is an intrinsic property of the current officiating system. So the more fouls a team commits, the more fouls will be missed by the referees in favor of that team.

2) This is just speculation on my part, but I think referees try to avoid being seen as biased by trying to call roughly the same amount of fouls on both teams. So if a team commits a lot of fouls, they will start calling only the most obvious ones.
 

Agloco

Veteran
Joined
Feb 24, 2008
Posts
115
Reaction score
0
True. Most of the uncalled fouls on Nash are when he's trying to dish to a teammate after beating the defense, or when he gets "stripped" of the ball by having his arms held or pushed out of the way. Maybe he'd get to the line more if he took more of those shots himself.



How many of them are since the O'Neal trade? That's when the officials have really turned it on. It's almost as though now that the Suns have built themselves back into contenders, the league has to tear them down again. Or maybe everyone is just sick of O'Neal, which I could understand.


To what end? All the talk I hear is about the Suns being a "fun team to watch" because of the run and gun style they play. Why would the league conspire against you guys?
 

ClingingMars

Newbie
Joined
Jun 19, 2007
Posts
25
Reaction score
0
Hogwash. There is no conspiracy because it wouldn't make logical sense. Stern would LOVE to see the Suns in the Finals. He would make 10x more money. If he HADN'T have suspended Stoudamire and Diaw, then there would have been talks of conspiracy AGAINST the Spurs.
 

nashman

ASFN Icon
Joined
May 3, 2007
Posts
10,806
Reaction score
7,779
Location
Queen Creek, AZ
Shut up Spurs fan! ^ Only spurs fans would cry conspiracy against them since they have been benifitting from horrible calls for YEARS!!
 

Covert Rain

Father smelt of elderberries!
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2005
Posts
36,359
Reaction score
15,376
Location
Arizona
Hogwash. There is no conspiracy because it wouldn't make logical sense. Stern would LOVE to see the Suns in the Finals. He would make 10x more money. If he HADN'T have suspended Stoudamire and Diaw, then there would have been talks of conspiracy AGAINST the Spurs.

Actually if Stern had it his way he would have the Lakers/Knicks or Lakers Celtics every year. Stern's actions last year are a result of a pattern of bad decisions and bad judgment in the past 2 years. Look no further then his hypocritical stance on the Ref scandals.
 

ClingingMars

Newbie
Joined
Jun 19, 2007
Posts
25
Reaction score
0
Shut up Spurs fan! ^ Only spurs fans would cry conspiracy against them since they have been benifitting from horrible calls for YEARS!!

There IS NO CONSPIRACY. Learn to read. Stern killed any thoughts of that when he made the suspensions last year. Don't you get it? He WANTS THE SUNS TO WIN.
 

ClingingMars

Newbie
Joined
Jun 19, 2007
Posts
25
Reaction score
0
Actually if Stern had it his way he would have the Lakers/Knicks or Lakers Celtics every year.

Definately not Knicks, because no fan would watch bc they would lose. But Celtics Lakers or Celtics Suns would both draw people in. Suns would draw in College fans who don't watch the NBA too.
 

nowagimp

Registered User
Joined
Nov 2, 2005
Posts
3,912
Reaction score
0
Location
Gilbert, AZ
Hogwash. There is no conspiracy because it wouldn't make logical sense. Stern would LOVE to see the Suns in the Finals. He would make 10x more money. If he HADN'T have suspended Stoudamire and Diaw, then there would have been talks of conspiracy AGAINST the Spurs.

Now there is some hogwash, 10x more money? Go take a riverwalk and buy yourself a margarita. Stern couldnt even come to phoenix and show his face, it would be embarassing for him to be booed endlessly on national TV. Find someone objective and ask them about the suspensions, you wont find such a person as a fan of a western conference team(conflict of interest). Ask a knicks fan, a wizards fan, or a celtics fan, not a spurs or mavs or lakers fan, the answer IS different. The NBA's problem is that they dont want to call the handchecks on the permiter because euroball(the suns) would win, and expose the league for the WWF fest it is. The NBA wants to include euro fans, but not admit that they were more concerned with making money with memorabilia than competition. So they went to a star system where the refs call fouls differently for superstars to promote memorabilia sales(>30% of all revenues, and the best margins). The losses in international competition pretty much exposed the NBA as a superstar league, biased towards the big money making stars in each city. To now admit it by allowing the euro inspired team to win would be a terrible admission.
 
OP
OP
Bufalay

Bufalay

ASFN Lifer
Joined
Jul 21, 2006
Posts
4,679
Reaction score
786
You must be registered for see images


One should try watching this with the lights on. It helps a bit.


Cute. This was posted because some might be interested in reading it, not because I am insane.
 

ambchang_

Registered
Joined
Feb 4, 2008
Posts
524
Reaction score
0
Now there is some hogwash, 10x more money? Go take a riverwalk and buy yourself a margarita. Stern couldnt even come to phoenix and show his face, it would be embarassing for him to be booed endlessly on national TV. Find someone objective and ask them about the suspensions, you wont find such a person as a fan of a western conference team(conflict of interest). Ask a knicks fan, a wizards fan, or a celtics fan, not a spurs or mavs or lakers fan, the answer IS different. The NBA's problem is that they dont want to call the handchecks on the permiter because euroball(the suns) would win, and expose the league for the WWF fest it is. The NBA wants to include euro fans, but not admit that they were more concerned with making money with memorabilia than competition. So they went to a star system where the refs call fouls differently for superstars to promote memorabilia sales(>30% of all revenues, and the best margins). The losses in international competition pretty much exposed the NBA as a superstar league, biased towards the big money making stars in each city. To now admit it by allowing the euro inspired team to win would be a terrible admission.

I simply couldn't understand the logic.

Stern not being popular in Phoenix has absolutely nothing to do with possible conspiracy. Just because the fans couldn't accept a punishment doesn't mean that it was wrong. Even Stoudemire accepted it and moved on. As for asking other fans of teams, there are three issues:
1) They are simply not as informed about the issue, because they really don't care
2) The Spurs are largely seen as a tougher out in the playoffs for most team, why would other teams' fans side with the Spurs rather than the Suns? In fact, the Spurs have been painted as the mean dirty bully (funny that never happened before they faced the Suns even though the team has played together for 5 years), fans of other teams would naturally despise the Spurs.
3) What survey have you done? Is it possible that you simply are hearing the opinions you want to hear? I do not claim to have the same knowledge of how other fans feel about this issue than you do.

It just seems like you are dismissing the opinions of those who do not align with yours as being "not objective".

The second argument you had also doesn't click with me. What does not playing Euroball have to do with merchandise sale? Wouldn't high scoring players attrack more fans? Especially those of the perimeter type (see Kobe, LeBron, Jordan, Carter, etc ...). A free flowing offense attracts casual fans, it has been shown over and over again, one does not need to understand the game to appreciate the ball going through the basket, but it does take those who know the game to understand a good stop.

The 3rd argument goes with superstar calls. Nash is a superstar, he is a two-time MVP. Stoudemire is a superstar, and Shaq is a superstar, even though he is on the downward slope of his career. There isn't another team with more superstars than the Suns, doesn't this mean that the league would give the Suns more call according to your own theory?
 

Agloco

Veteran
Joined
Feb 24, 2008
Posts
115
Reaction score
0
Cute. This was posted because some might be interested in reading it, not because I am insane.


Sorry. That should have been aimed at the original poster. But.........

That still begs the question: Why help fan the conspiracy rumors?

How the heck does anyone verify the veracity of such claims?
 
Last edited:

Agloco

Veteran
Joined
Feb 24, 2008
Posts
115
Reaction score
0
Inevitably there will be a shadowy figure behind a pillar in a parking garage...

Should I tell him that Cheesewater sent me to find out why the Pistons and Heat are +1 on his beloved Suns still?:D
 
OP
OP
Bufalay

Bufalay

ASFN Lifer
Joined
Jul 21, 2006
Posts
4,679
Reaction score
786
Sorry. That should have been aimed at the original poster. But.........

That still begs the question: Why help fan the conspiracy rumors?

How the heck does anyone verify the veracity of such claims?

Who cares? This isn't science, we can just read and ponder. I was searching for Amare's stats online and this article came up and I thought that someone else might want to see it.
 
Top