One comment on Rosenhaus

[Russ Smith]

Gary Radnich on local news brought this up today talking about Alex Smith's agent Condon. he said while Condon is a tough cookie, "at least he's not trying to break the owners backs like Drew Rosenhaus is." He made a very valid point, in many ways Rosenhaus isn't negotiating against teams now he's negotiating against the NFL as a whole because he has so many guys this year and in the recent past holding out, that at some point "right or wrong owners are going to have to collude against the guy and just collectively refuse to cave in to his holdouts."

it is an interesting point of view, Boldin, Walker, Santana Moss, Droughns, Owens, last year McKenzie and Portis, at some point NFL teams ARE going to have to either open pandoras box and give in to every player, or put their foots down.

The downside is a GOOD guy like Quan may get caught in the crossfire where the Cards may really want to do the guy right, but may feel obligated to completely hardball him?

 

[jstadvl]

I'd like

to think the Cards would send an "unofficial" spokesman to talk with Q before they're forced to fight. It's very possible they can make him an offer that makes him financially secure for his future, but doesn't break they're back ,which in turm would send a message to others that our front office will take care of reasonable players.

 

[jmr667]

I have been wondering how many of these holdout situations like this can happen at a time before the issue comes up at the next Collective Bargaining session. Curious to see if one person (Rosenhaus) can actually have an affect on the overall tone of negotiations between the owners and the NFLPA.
If all of the owners begin to play hardball with Rosenhaus will the NFLPA get behind him as a licensed agent or will they hang him out to dry in hopes of keeping the owners calm as they try to push for more revenue sharing in the near future.

 

[Redsz]

It's actually got to the point where I'm glad a guy's agent is the Postons or Condon, just because it isn't Rosenhaus. And that is something I thought I would never say!

I agree, at some point the NFL collectivley will just have enough and start to black label Rosenhaus and his clients. If Rosenhaus refuses to budge, then they are going to be looking at bigger fines each and every week.

On a related note on the TO situation. They had Gil Bandit (sp) on the radio yesterday and it looks like the Eagles aren't expecting TO this season (good news for us).

He also said that TO was infact, in breach of his contract because he is missing workouts due to his holdout. And because of it, he now owes the Eagles thousands of dollars in fines because of it!

 

[Scott MS]

In my opinion . . .

The Quan is Gone

Might as well assume the worst and move on. Thanks to Rosenhaus Quan will sit this fall and not get paid.

 

[jstadvl]

Yea

I liked what Reid said. Basically, i'm paraphrasing here, we got on before you were here, we'll get on without you now.
I just can't believe Q has this "fog" over his head. He seems to be pretty bright and must see what's going to happen. The Cards have never caved in the past. Why start now? One player won't make or break this team anymore.

 

[nurnay]

I liked what Reid said. Basically, i'm paraphrasing here, we got on before you were here, we'll get on without you now.
I just can't believe Q has this "fog" over his head. He seems to be pretty bright and must see what's going to happen. The Cards have never caved in the past. Why start now? One player won't make or break this team anymore.

i don't know. we need boldin right now. with him, the cards have one of the top wr corps in the nfc. without him... different story.

give the guy a good deal and let's move on!

 

[BACH]

It's actually got to the point where I'm glad a guy's agent is the Postons or Condon, just because it isn't Rosenhaus. And that is something I thought I would never say!

The Postons are done. After holding out for a deal that cost Winslow $8M for breaking his leg the Postons have lost a lot of clients.
BTW. Found this on profootballtalk:

WHAT ABOUT GUSS?

Speaking of Rosenhaus, as his profile continues to reach unprecedented levels, a logical consequence is that there eventually will be a backlash, both from other agents and from the teams who are unhappy with his tactics.

And although we've tried to see both sides of the issue (but tend to agree with the notion that a contract is a contract lest it would be called something other than a contract), we wouldn't be fulfilling our mission if we didn't mention a situation from 2004 that an increasing number of NFL insiders are talking about as Rosenhaus continues to ruffle feathers both in the agent community and in NFL front offices.

Florida's Guss Scott, a safety, was a third-round draft pick of the Patriots in 2004. The Pats, who are one of the handful of teams who insist on five-year deals for mid-round picks, initially worked out a contract with Rosenhaus that would have paid Scott a signing bonus of $625,000 plus salaries of $230,000, $305,000, $385,000, $460,000, and $545,000.

The contract was reported to the league office, but due to a language technicality the deal was scuttled. We're told that the Pats increased the bonus money the second time around in exchange for the removal of some out year escalators -- but Scott refused (on Rosenhaus' advice) to sign the five-year deal, opting instead for a one-year contract for the minimum salary of $230,000.

No bonus. No guarantee. No nothing.

And, of course, Scott promptly blew out his knee.

This time around, Scott signed another one-year deal with New England, for only $235,000, and he'll get the money only if he makes the team. Since the Pats face no bonus acceleration because Scott had no bonus, they can cut him loose at any time with no cap consequence, and pay him not another dime.

So by foregoing his signing bonus in the hopes of hitting free agency sooner than five years into his NFL career, Scott suffered an injury that could, in the end, prevent him from ever getting paid like he would have gotten paid if he'd merely pocketed the big-money bonus and collected $230,000 in salary last year and $305,000 this year.

Sure, it was a calculated risk, and our goal here isn't to bash Rosenhaus for playing the odds and losing. But the reality is that, as Rosenhaus signs more and more clients who previously were represented by other agents and then holds those guys out for more money, more and more folks will scrutinize every single move he makes, and they'll use any misstep -- actual or perceived -- against him.

That's precisely what's happening with the Scott situation, and there's a growing throng of league insiders frothing at the mouth for Drew's next boo-boo.

 

[slanidrac16]

In my opinion . . .

The Quan is Gone

Might as well assume the worst and move on. Thanks to Rosenhaus Quan will sit this fall and not get paid.

I don't think so Scott. At some point reality will set in and Q will agree to a reasonable deal. He has to. He has TWO years left on his contract and, I believe, even if he sat out BOTH years he does not automatically become a free agent.
If he had 1 year left he could pull a Keenan McCardell or just wait until the 9th game to report for this year to count.
Quans days here will end the day we go out and sign a guy like Hakim, Freddie Mitchell, or Corey Bradford.
I really don't think that will happen.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Gary Radnich on local news brought this up today talking about Alex Smith's agent Condon. he said while Condon is a tough cookie, "at least he's not trying to break the owners backs like Drew Rosenhaus is." He made a very valid point, in many ways Rosenhaus isn't negotiating against teams now he's negotiating against the NFL as a whole because he has so many guys this year and in the recent past holding out, that at some point "right or wrong owners are going to have to collude against the guy and just collectively refuse to cave in to his holdouts."

it is an interesting point of view, Boldin, Walker, Santana Moss, Droughns, Owens, last year McKenzie and Portis, at some point NFL teams ARE going to have to either open pandoras box and give in to every player, or put their foots down.

The downside is a GOOD guy like Quan may get caught in the crossfire where the Cards may really want to do the guy right, but may feel obligated to completely hardball him?

There is no "right" when it comes to collusion.

It's against the law. PERIOD!

 

[pete]

There is no "right" when it comes to collusion.

It's against the law. PERIOD!

Yeah, there is no collusion going on in commerce around the world. Like all of these players and Rosenhaus aren't colluding against the owners. Please. Personally, I think the owners should collude against agents like Rosenhaus and the players he represents. The guy is trying to set a dangerous precedent here and if he pulls it off, the NFL could end up like the NHL. Here is a concept for the players. If you don't like your original contract, don't sign it! You can always go work at McDonalds.

I think every NFL team should draft a letter to both Rosenhaus and the players that he represents and state they will not negotiate with him on any contract, period.

Boycott Rosenhaus!!!

 

[Scott MS]

All teams can certainly choose not to negotiate with Rosenhaus.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Yeah, there is no collusion going on in commerce around the world. Like all of these players and Rosenhaus aren't colluding against the owners. Please. Personally, I think the owners should collude against agents like Rosenhaus and the players he represents. The guy is trying to set a dangerous precedent here and if he pulls it off, the NFL could end up like the NHL. Here is a concept for the players. If you don't like your original contract, don't sign it! You can always go work at McDonalds.

I think every NFL team should draft a letter to both Rosenhaus and the players that he represents and state they will not negotiate with him on any contract, period.

Boycott Rosenhaus!!!

So, your ressponse to collusion is the more the merrier. OK, fine!

 

[Crazy Canuck]

All teams can certainly choose not to negotiate with Rosenhaus.

If he's a certified agent with clients and teams choose to act in this way, then Rosenhaus can take action before the courts.

"Collusion" is illegal.

Often difficult to prove, but nevertheless against the law.

Rosenhaus would have 40 years of sports / labour legal precedents to support his case.

 

[Scott MS]

If he's a certified agent with clients and teams choose to act in this way, then Rosenhaus can take action before the courts.

"Collusion" is illegal.

Often difficult to prove, but nevertheless against the law.

Rosenhaus would have 40 years of sports / labour legal precedents to support his case.

I didn't mean they would declare they won't negotiate with him, but simply they don't need to offer any of his clients a contract. They can say, "We are working on an offer for your cilent" for years.

 

[slanidrac16]

In America we have a freedom of choice. Players have a choice of agents. Agents have a choice of tactics and team s have a choice of who they will do business with.
It's getting to the point where teams will "steer clear" of certain agents. Right or wrong. Smart or stupid. It has gotten to a point where a players agent must at least be taken into consideration.

I know if I was an owner, gm or coach looking at free agents and I have a choice of 2 players of comparable talent that I hoped to get on my team, those players agent would play some kind of role.

Owens situation is udderly and downright stupid. How a player can sign a 7 year contract and hold out the next season in rediculous.

Boldins situation is a LITTLE different. The Cards have publicly recognized his talent and his situation and their desire to reward him. Q SHOULD have been at mini- camp. I don't care if all he did was ride a stationary bicycle. His agent thought otherwise.

I hope every one of the players he represents sits out the whole season. But as long as there are enough dumb owner, gm's and coaches out there willing to cave in, over pay and blow up their salary cap, this stuff will go on.

I wonder how many teams are out there right now that would be willing to give us their #1 pick next year for Anquan Boldin?

 

[Russ Smith]

It's actually got to the point where I'm glad a guy's agent is the Postons or Condon, just because it isn't Rosenhaus. And that is something I thought I would never say!

I agree, at some point the NFL collectivley will just have enough and start to black label Rosenhaus and his clients. If Rosenhaus refuses to budge, then they are going to be looking at bigger fines each and every week.

On a related note on the TO situation. They had Gil Bandit (sp) on the radio yesterday and it looks like the Eagles aren't expecting TO this season (good news for us).

He also said that TO was infact, in breach of his contract because he is missing workouts due to his holdout. And because of it, he now owes the Eagles thousands of dollars in fines because of it!

The Eagles I think have an ironclad case here I said it a couple of weeks ago TO's claim that they took advantage of his "predicament" is nonsense. The Eagles, Ravens, and 49ers, AND the NFL all bent over backwards to let that deal happen when they could have easily forced TO to honor the trade to the Ravens. TO and his agent screwed up, they missed the deadline, and after all that the Eagles STILL gave him a new contract with a fat new bonus.

TO is just flat wrong IMHO.

 

[Russ Smith]

There is no "right" when it comes to collusion.

It's against the law. PERIOD!

I agree I know collusion is a bad thing it happened in baseball and it's probably happened in other sports too.

Basically Radnich was saying one team or one owner can't "break" Rosenhaus, if the Eagles hardball Owens and he winds up traded to a new team who gives him a new deal, he and Rosenhaus "win". So eventually it's going to take a situation where NOBODY will touch guys DR is holding out.

 

[pete]

So, your ressponse to collusion is the more the merrier. OK, fine!

Pretty much. Collusion is standard practice around the globe so let's not try to pretend that it doesn't exist, or it is illegal. A lot of things are illegal, supposedly.

 

[BACH]

I agree I know collusion is a bad thing it happened in baseball and it's probably happened in other sports too.

Basically Radnich was saying one team or one owner can't "break" Rosenhaus, if the Eagles hardball Owens and he winds up traded to a new team who gives him a new deal, he and Rosenhaus "win". So eventually it's going to take a situation where NOBODY will touch guys DR is holding out.

I agree. That's makes it pretty easy to figure out Boldin's situation, too. Snyder is the only one that would be stupid enough to offer Boldin more money than he offer the Cards have made...

 

[az240zz]

I don't think trading Boldin is the answer. IF we trade him he ans his agent win. Continue the current course and if no agreement can be reached than stick to the current contract. If Boldin doesn't want to honor it then let him sit for 2 years.

As to reporting by the 9th game does the team have to put him in the roster?

az240z

 

[clif]

who cares about winning a battle against his agent. the team needs to do what's best to make them successful on the field and in the pocketbook. Letting him sit ( as some have suggested ) would be a loss. Either he plays or gets traded.

 

[Russ Smith]

who cares about winning a battle against his agent. the team needs to do what's best to make them successful on the field and in the pocketbook. Letting him sit ( as some have suggested ) would be a loss. Either he plays or gets traded.

I'm not saying we should try to win a battle I'm saying that the point Radnich made was it's almost inevitable that NFL teams are going to look at Rosenhaus' tactics and say we gotta stop this and if THIS year happens to be the year they do that, we may get screwed over because Quan won't want to be the guy that "crosses the picket line" so to speak.

Radnich was basically explaining why Alex Smith having Condon as an agent isn't necessarily a bad thing, it could be a lot worse.

 

[football karma]

Basically Radnich was saying one team or one owner can't "break" Rosenhaus, if the Eagles hardball Owens and he winds up traded to a new team who gives him a new deal, he and Rosenhaus "win". So eventually it's going to take a situation where NOBODY will touch guys DR is holding out.

At this point, TO is damaged goods.

What team is going to get him (other than the Raiders maybe) when he has shown that he will be disruptive, almost regardless of circumstances?

The sheer numbers of Rosenhaus' holdouts also mean that all teams will take a buyer beware approach to his clients -- they know that if that player has an "exceeds expectations" kind of year, they will likely have a contract holdout from that player.


In a way, this is kind of an agent battle against the NFL -- with the approach being taken that "If teams can cut a player's salary (by cutting him from the team) for underpeforming vs the contract, then the player can hold out for a bigger salary when he over performs." Agents see this as a fundamental imbalance that they want to correct -- ultimately moving towards guaranteed contracts like the other major sports.

The casualties will be some or all of the players who sign up for this fight. I only wonder if the players realize they are participating in a larger battle, one that agents are willing to sacrifice the earnings and well being of individual players in order to get the bigger prize.

 

[clif]

I'm not saying we should try to win a battle I'm saying that the point Radnich made was it's almost inevitable that NFL teams are going to look at Rosenhaus' tactics and say we gotta stop this and if THIS year happens to be the year they do that, we may get screwed over because Quan won't want to be the guy that "crosses the picket line" so to speak.

Radnich was basically explaining why Alex Smith having Condon as an agent isn't necessarily a bad thing, it could be a lot worse.

I wasn't responding to your statement which I pretty much agree with. I was talking about over the last few days in pretty much all the boldin threads someone keeps suggesting that if the contract dispute is not worked out then we should let Anquan sit out the year or 2.

That is just plain crazy no matter how we feel about his holding out. If he doesnt play then he needs to be traded. There is no good that come out of him sitting at home. He obviously would not be helping the team on the field and would still count towards the salary cap. It would be best that IF and only IF this does not get resolved before the season, the team should strongly consider trading him.