One thing from yesterday Colt vs Kyler

[Russ Smith]

Not in any way a criticism because I love Kyler but I do think yesterday also sort of showed why we don't do more misdirection with Kyler. The fact is it worked quite well yesterday but it worked because Colt took so many snaps under Center. Even the QB sneaks including that one Colt fought for to get, you can't do that with Kyler unless he's under C and I assume we just think he's too small to do that. But the misdirection stuff it works much better from under C than it does from the gun and that's why we don't do much of it with Kyler. You can make a good argument along with climbing the pocket the next big step for Kyler is getting to where he can effectively play from under C, he would be lethal with some of that misdirection under C.

But obviously it's a thing if you haven't done it, it takes time, the dropbacks and the turning your back on the defense is new to people

 

[SoonerLou]

Not in any way a criticism because I love Kyler but I do think yesterday also sort of showed why we don't do more misdirection with Kyler. The fact is it worked quite well yesterday but it worked because Colt took so many snaps under Center. Even the QB sneaks including that one Colt fought for to get, you can't do that with Kyler unless he's under C and I assume we just think he's too small to do that. But the misdirection stuff it works much better from under C than it does from the gun and that's why we don't do much of it with Kyler. You can make a good argument along with climbing the pocket the next big step for Kyler is getting to where he can effectively play from under C, he would be lethal with some of that misdirection under C.

But obviously it's a thing if you haven't done it, it takes time, the dropbacks and the turning your back on the defense is new to people

You dont get better at something if you dont call it. This is a non thread.

Also the 49ers seemed clearly unprepared for it which is why it worked/was great to do.

 

[nashman]

I recall seeing Kyler under center more this year than ever so maybe they are working into it…

 

[Russ Smith]

You dont get better at something if you dont call it. This is a non thread.

Also the 49ers seemed clearly unprepared for it which is why it worked/was great to do.

My point is Kyler HAS taken some snaps under C this year but not that many. Game after game people complain we don't do the misdirection stuff, yesterday proved why, because Kyler is under C so rarely.

In the future if he can get to where he can do that it will make him a more lethal QB

 

[Chris_Sanders]

My difference was the QB sneaks up the middle

 

[SoonerLou]

My point is Kyler HAS taken some snaps under C this year but not that many. Game after game people complain we don't do the misdirection stuff, yesterday proved why, because Kyler is under C so rarely.

In the future if he can get to where he can do that it will make him a more lethal QB

I've been saying since last year we dont generate those easy plays sometimes because of the lack of run action from under center.

That was bascially the Jimmy G/Goff playbook used to compensate for your QB.

As said on MNF that even though Stafford is super talented McVay shouldnt avoid those run action plays completely that help move the offense.

Russell Wilson did it his rookie year.

Its more or so Kliff not wanting to do it imo. He just had to do it because of Colt and the lack of weapons

 

[Shane]

Zero clock issues delay of game or getting the play in on time with Colt too... As already stated by Chopper that could be a sign that those miscues aren’t on KK after all.

 

[Russ Smith]

I've been saying since last year we dont generate those easy plays sometimes because of the lack of run action from under center.

That was bascially the Jimmy G/Goff playbook used to compensate for your QB.

As said on MNF that even though Stafford is super talented McVay shouldnt avoid those run action plays completely that help move the offense.

Russell Wilson did it his rookie year.

Its more or so Kliff not wanting to do it imo. He just had to do it because of Colt and the lack of weapons

I don't know I remember an interview his rookie year where Kliff said that Kyler had never done it in HS or college and that it wasn't something he was comfortable with yet and lots of college Qb's now come out with the same issue.

Again I'm not faulting Kyler I'm saying I think the reason why Kliff doesn't do that stuff is because they so rarely have Kyler under C. It would make him a better QB if he can learn to do that, can you imagine how lethal Kyler could be in misdirection stuff like that. When we do it now he's often 6-8 yards deep so even if the defense is fooled they have time to get there.

We really only do it near the goalline

 

[Krangodnzr]

Zero clock issues delay of game or getting the play in on time with Colt too... As already stated by Chopper that could be a sign that those miscues aren’t on KK after all.

The most mystifying aspect of this board to me, is how much blame Kliff gets and how much adoration Murray gets.

I said all off season that I thought Kiiff was dealing with Kyler's limitations last year and that was the biggest struggle. Murray improves and the entire offense improves... I don't think Kliff got a whole lot better, I think Murray did.

 

[Jasper]

Colt prefers to be under center while Kyler doesn't. Pros and cons for both. Kyler likes to sling it, faces the D, gives him that extra second or 2 to scan the field. Under center he would have to drop back while looking downfield, sometimes running sideways or back towards the D, etc. Could be a height issue too. He might see the field better farther back than right behind the line.

 

[BulldogCard]

I think Kyler learned that just making the plays you're supposed to make are so important. Sometimes you don't have to run 50 yards to get 3. Sometimes you have play football. If the qb sees a blitz or the center sees it on 1 side, ck out into a run play if it's there. Be in the business of winning Super Bowls even if it's boring.

 

[BritCard]

I don't get the Kyler is too small argument. According to the roster Colt only has 5lbs on Kyler. It's weight that you want, size just gives the D line more to block.

5lbs shouldn't really make a difference.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

The most mystifying aspect of this board to me, is how much blame Kliff gets and how much adoration Murray gets.

I said all off season that I thought Kiiff was dealing with Kyler's limitations last year and that was the biggest struggle. Murray improves and the entire offense improves... I don't think Kliff got a whole lot better, I think Murray did.

Hmm both can be true. For instance, just quickly off the top of my head I don’t see nearly as many horizontal plays to slow receivers this year.

 

[DVontel]

Hmm both can be true. For instance, just quickly off the top of my head I don’t see nearly as many horizontal plays to slow receivers this year.

Both can be, but they weren’t, lol. Which is what Krang was getting at.

 

[BigRedRage]

Colt had a great game but it was mostly all dump offs, check downs and YAC. I'm happy for him regardless. The only real throw I saw was the one to Kirk and I was totally cool with that.

 

[Chopper0080]

I've been saying since last year we dont generate those easy plays sometimes because of the lack of run action from under center.

That was bascially the Jimmy G/Goff playbook used to compensate for your QB.

As said on MNF that even though Stafford is super talented McVay shouldnt avoid those run action plays completely that help move the offense.

Russell Wilson did it his rookie year.

Its more or so Kliff not wanting to do it imo. He just had to do it because of Colt and the lack of weapons

Disagree with this. Kliff likes his gadget plays. If Kyler was more comfortable under center, Kliff would run more under C. A HC doesn't have a group of plays/package that works and doesn't use them. A HC has an entire playbook and cuts it down to what his QB prefers and is comfortable with.

 

[Chopper0080]

I don't know I remember an interview his rookie year where Kliff said that Kyler had never done it in HS or college and that it wasn't something he was comfortable with yet and lots of college Qb's now come out with the same issue.

Again I'm not faulting Kyler I'm saying I think the reason why Kliff doesn't do that stuff is because they so rarely have Kyler under C. It would make him a better QB if he can learn to do that, can you imagine how lethal Kyler could be in misdirection stuff like that. When we do it now he's often 6-8 yards deep so even if the defense is fooled they have time to get there.

We really only do it near the goalline

Tinfoil hat time!

I think it was important for Kyler to see the offense work without him and without some of the pieces he gets to use. The fact that they brought in a backup QB who Kyler would respect says a lot about Kyler and how he views others. Your HC and his scheme should not need to earn credibility with your young franchise QB, but I think it needed to with Kyler.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Hmm both can be true. For instance, just quickly off the top of my head I don’t see nearly as many horizontal plays to slow receivers this year.

Both can be, but they weren’t, lol. Which is what Krang was getting at.

I think last seasons collapse was more on Murray not being able to execute Kliff's offense than it was Kliff's failures. I saw a coach who needed his QB to consistently complete 10-19 yard passes and his QB being among the worst in the league at throwing bread and butter passes. Teams literally dared Murray to do this and he couldn't. That's really hard to overcome when your QB can't complete routine NFL throws.

So what is your option? You have to throw short or long. Well teams played a shell defense and the offensive line couldn't give Murray enough time consistently to complete deeper throws, so that meant the only part of your playbook you can really rely on is short throws, and then teams just waited for that to happen.

Murray has grown significantly since last year, and now he is routinely completing 10-19 yard passes, and at an elite or near elite level. That means you don't have to throw those short, horizontal passes constantly.

 

[nashman]

They both got better clearly …

 

[Chopper0080]

They both got better clearly …

Yes

 

[RON_IN_OC]

Zero clock issues delay of game or getting the play in on time with Colt too... As already stated by Chopper that could be a sign that those miscues aren’t on KK after all.

That's quite possible. For Colt, he's maybe running the plays that KK calls, with few audibles going on. Maybe with KM, he's calling more audibles or just changing more plays at LOS????

 

[RON_IN_OC]

Tinfoil hat time!

I think it was important for Kyler to see the offense work without him and without some of the pieces he gets to use. The fact that they brought in a backup QB who Kyler would respect says a lot about Kyler and how he views others. Your HC and his scheme should not need to earn credibility with your young franchise QB, but I think it needed to with Kyler.

I think that's actually plausible and not really conspiracy theory at all. You can safely remove your tinfoil hat.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Both can be, but they weren’t, lol. Which is what Krang was getting at.

Wait so you and krang think kliff hasn’t improved? That this is ALL kyler improvement? I think such a stark position is foolhardy considering how little we actually know about the inner workings of each season, each game, even each play.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

The most mystifying aspect of this board to me, is how much blame Kliff gets and how much adoration Murray gets.

I said all off season that I thought Kiiff was dealing with Kyler's limitations last year and that was the biggest struggle. Murray improves and the entire offense improves... I don't think Kliff got a whole lot better, I think Murray did.

Both can be, but they weren’t, lol. Which is what Krang was getting at.

Uh, what am I missing? Kyler has ALWAYS gotten a fair amount of criticism on this board.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Wait so you and krang think kliff hasn’t improved? That this is ALL kyler improvement? I think such a stark position is foolhardy considering how little we actually know about the inner workings of each season, each game, even each play.

Not only foolhardy, there is ample evidence pretty much EVERYWHERE you look on this team.