O'Neal is the poster child...

[devilalum]

This guy needs to check himself. He's the poster child for a 20 year old age limit. Sure he's great now but Portland had to pay him to do next to nothing for his first 2 years in the league.



Indiana Pacers forward Jermaine O'Neal said he thinks racism might have something to do with the NBA's desire to put an age limit in the next collective bargaining agreement.



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[size=-1] Jermaine O'Neal[/size]
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2004-2005 SEASON STATISTICS [size=-2]GM[/size] [size=-2]PPG[/size] [size=-2]RPG[/size] [size=-2]APG[/size] [size=-2]FG%[/size] [size=-2]FT%[/size] [size=-2]41[/size] [size=-2]24.8[/size] [size=-2]9.0[/size] [size=-2]2.0[/size] [size=-2].454[/size] [size=-2].755[/size] "In the last two or three years, the rookie of the year has been a high school player. There were seven high school players in the All-Star Game, so why we even talking an age limit?" O'Neal said.

The past two rookies of the year were drafted out of high school: The Cavaliers' LeBron James was the 2003-04 rookie of the year, while the Suns' Amare Stoudemire won the award after the 2002-03 season.

Players currently have to be at least 18 to be drafted, but NBA commissioner David Stern would like to see the age raised to 20.

"We are seeking to raise that to 20 or two years out of high school. The NFL's minimum age is 3 years after high school. I'm optimistic the union will agree to some raise in the minimum age in the current collective bargaining," Stern said in a recent ESPN.com chat.

O'Neal doesn't agree with Stern's agenda, however.

"As a black guy, you kind of think [race is] the reason why it's coming up.

"You don't hear about it in baseball or hockey. To say you have to be 20, 21 to get in the league, it's unconstitutional. If I can go to the U.S. Army and fight the war at 18 why can't you play basketball for 48 minutes?" O'Neal said.

If the NBA had the age limit Stern is proposing in 1996, O'Neal would have had to postpone the start of his NBA career.

O'Neal went to the NBA straight out of high school in 1996 and was drafted by the Portland Trail Blazers, who made him the 17th overall selection.

O'Neal didn't blossom into the star he is today until he was dealt to the Pacers during the 2000 offseason. He has made the past three Eastern Conference All-Star teams

 

[Chaplin]

Race?? Is he crazy?

As for his complaining, there are the same amount of high school busts as there are successes--maybe even more. So he can talk about Lebron and Amare all he wants, but for every Amare, there's a Travis Outlaw and Leon Smith.

 

[TopGamer]

so why we even talking an age limit?" O'Neal said.

So they can get their education to learn how to form a proper sentence.

 

[arthurracoon]

So they can get their education to learn how to form a proper sentence.

 

[az1965]

So they can get their education to learn how to form a proper sentence.

You don't need to form a proper sentence to shoot basket ball... He has a point.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Travis Outlaw is going to be tight

 

[Yuma]

You don't need to form a proper sentence to shoot basket ball... He has a point.

Just listen to Magic Johnson speak! He went to college and it didn't help!

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

You don't need to form a proper sentence to shoot basket ball... He has a point.

But you do need a sense of structure in your life so you can act mature and smart when you have millions.

Also, you need a chance to learn basketball from a good coach, which most high schoolers cannot claim.

 

[hafey2]

Not that I necessarily agree with O'Neal about the race issue, but the age limit is much more about money than benevolence.

 

[Cheesebeef]

bottom line - if they're old enough to defend this country and put their life on the line, IMO, they are old enough to play a game if someone wants them.

 

[Chaplin]

bottom line - if they're old enough to defend this country and put their life on the line, IMO, they are old enough to play a game if someone wants them.

Come on cheese, you know it's not just a "game". I think that is an extremely simplistic view of what being a professional basketball player is all about.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Come on cheese, you know it's not just a "game". I think that is an extremely simplistic view of what being a professional basketball player is all about.

it still doesn't change my mind. If they're deemed mature enough to protect/die for this country - their old enough to make a living at their chosen profession if someone wants them.

 

[hafey2]

I have to agree with cheese. If the market is willing to pay them millions for their basketball playing skills, by all right they should be allowed to play.

 

[sly fly]

As a "league", the NBA can set their own age limit rules. If they feel high school kids are undermining the game, then that's their choice.

On the other hand, the NBA is cutting it's own throat. Rather than completely shut out these young kids, why not have a minor league system? Or, allow these kids to go back to college even though they were drafted. The NBA team could just retain their rights.

Baseball takes kids straight from high school and sends them to South Bend or El Paso. Where's the uproar?

Tennis has had champs who could barely shave. I don't hear anybody saying Venus or Serena Williams should have went to college.

Then again, the NBA is hugely hypocritical when it comes to marketing Lebron or Amare. The NBA should thank it's lucky stars a few of this young kids panned out.

 

[Forrestham]

While I thinnk teams are getting foolish to keep going after all these high school kids I do not believe the league should put down a blanket age limit.
However with every Lebron, Amare, Kobe and Garnett, there are many more busts. Teams will still be willing to take a chance on tehse "cant miss" talents. Remember Leon Smith.
Many players are not college academic material. That is not a knock but if they can make a living they should be entitled to do so

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

I have to agree with cheese. If the market is willing to pay them millions for their basketball playing skills, by all right they should be allowed to play.

You shouldn't get hired for a job based on the potential you have. You need to do some sort of work to prove that you are ready, whether it be experience or a degree.

The NBA is no different. These kids need to show that they are mature, coachable and able to live up to the hype. Whether that be in college, over seas or a developmental league - they need to prove it somewhere before a team invests millions into them.

On the other hand, the NBA is cutting it's own throat. Rather than completely shut out these young kids, why not have a minor league system? Or, allow these kids to go back to college even though they were drafted. The NBA team could just retain their rights.

I agree that they are hurting themselves with marketing Lebron and Amare, however I don't think it is that bad. The fact is, the league is better off as a whole by placing stronger limits on the draft. It doesn't matter if the casual fan understands that.

The league sounds like a minor league system will come with the new CBA. It will allow players on their rookie deals a chance to play and get time. Combined with the age limit, in a few years the NBA should enjoy a drastic increase in basketball skills.

I would love if a kid could go back to college after being drafted. Of course, the NCAA puts a stop to that one, not the NBA.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Many players are not college academic material. That is not a knock but if they can make a living they should be entitled to do so

So send them to a developement league to refine their game. An investment firm won't hire someone until they show a degree. You cannot just get good grades in your first two years, you need to get the degree if you are going to handle millions.

The NBA should be the same way. You cannot just look good in highschool. Run the course and face some real competition. Then teams can invest millions in them.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Baseball takes kids straight from high school and sends them to South Bend or El Paso. Where's the uproar?

Tennis has had champs who could barely shave. I don't hear anybody saying Venus or Serena Williams should have went to college.

Of course:

Football is by far the most popular sport in the country, and they have an age limit. Where is the uproar about it? Where are the hordes of people complaining that the supreme court overturned the Clarrett decision?


Tennis and Golf doesn't have the economic impact that basketball does. An 18 year old that wants to play tennis isn't handed 10 million in guaranteed money. They have to earn it.

The reason no one cares about baseball is because the guaranteed money is different. Also, there is a very structured minor league system, something that will likely never happen in basketball. You can develop this talent you draft.

Also, the draft in baseball is different than in football or basketball. Players chosen in the NFL and NBA drafts are expected to give significant contributions (from the 1st round at least). Getting the first pick in the draft is supposed to help turn a franchise around, and keep the balance of power spread evenly. Taking crap shoots on players is killing this league.

Essentially, the league needs to protects themselves from themselves. Just like the issues with the cap. There is always one jackass that will make a move hoping to cash in big. It is better for the league as a whole to remove these options.

 

[Gaddabout]

Baseball takes kids straight from high school and sends them to South Bend or El Paso. Where's the uproar?

The uproar is coming from the owners of these minor league franchises who are basically losing money to support MLB. Nobody should copy the MLB minor league system. Ask Isaiah Thomas how that went.

I wonder if JO is going to reach into his pocket and help Alton Ford get on his feet. You know, brotherhood and all, because there's nothing really wrong with letting 19-year-olds into the NBA willy nilly.

College is first about learning how to become an adult. It's unfortunate that some kids have to grow up so fast. If you have the ability to go to college, such as a free ride scholarship, you should -- even for only two years. Learn how to do your own laundry, figure out who your real friends are, learn a thing or two about life and yourself in a safe environment. If college were JUST about learning a trade, it'd be called a trade school!

Personally, I think kids should go to college so they can build up their tolerance to alcohol. It's an important skill to learn before you hit the road in the NBA as a rookie. Maybe the league could come up with some kind of certification before entrance into the draft -- a 10-kegger minimum. You also need to know the names of three strippers.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Ok, closing thoughts for the night on this. If I was doing this 12 hours earlier, I would have condensed it all and put it in one post. Sorry about that.


I don't think there is a single person that would argue against the statement that the quality of basketball in the NBA has decreased dramatically over the past decade or so.

An age limit and minor league system are the two primary ways to correct this problem. Players would be allowed into a situation where coaches are there to teach, not constantly watching their backs waiting to be fired. This is good for the NBA, and it's fans. People can talk about infringement of personal rights all they want, because quite frankly that is garbage. Working is privelage, not a given right.

The league has to form a unified front against allowing unqualified players into the league. While an age limit is not perfect (see Lebron and Amare), it is the option that will give the most success. You cannot allow subjectivity to enter the equation, or else you make no progress. Had Lebron or Amare gone to college, it could be argued that they would have been winning MVP in their rookie seasons. That would be an even better promotion than they are now.


Not to mention the vast improvement it would give the NCAA game. Can you imagine watching a Memphis team of Amare, Woods, Wagner? Or Lebron lifting Ohio State up? Or Livingston, Deng, Williams carrying Duke? March Madness is already incredible, but just think how amazing it would be if the NBA didn't steal all of the top talent!



Ok, I am done. I swear.

 

[Southpaw]

bottom line - if they're old enough to defend this country and put their life on the line, IMO, they are old enough to play a game if someone wants them.

.... or , if you're not old enough to play basketball, you're not old enough to defend your country.

 

[Southpaw]

Those words of wisdom came from the brain of the same guy who was immature enough to go wilding and get suspended for 15 games. Consider the source. Anyone who has the audacity to bring up black biased racism when speaking about the NBA, hasn't got a clue.

P.S. Maybe he enjoys dominating all of those " low talent" early entries. BTW, he sucked his first 4 years after coming out early and collecting those big paychecks. He is one of the reasons why the NBA needs a minor league and/or an age restriction.

 

[Errntknght]

thegrahamcrackr, "People can talk about infringement of personal rights all they want, because quite frankly that is garbage. Working is privelage, not a given right."

It's neither a privilege nor a given right - in our country individuals possess the right to work without anyone having to give it to them. Remember that it says in the Bill of Rights that rights originate with the person and are surrendered to the country when it benefits the common weal and is specified in the constitution or in a law. Then the Bill of Rights enumerates areas where the law may not tread.

No one is questioning people's right to make a living playing basketball. (Well, maybe you are.) (If you are under 14 then child labor laws may prevent someone from employing you to play under various conditions.) That is not the same thing as saying you have a right to play in the NBA. The legal question is whether such an organization may preclude it's member teams from contracting with people below a certain age to play for them - which has been upheld in the Clarett case. In fact, the NBA already has an age minimum of 18. Most likely, if the NBA ups the minimum age to 20 it will be upheld. I think if it were challenged, the league 'discrimminating' against would be more likely to fail. Which then might lead to the WNBA having to allow men to play... so then we'd have a minor league.

So it really comes down to is whether it's a good idea or not. Personally, I can see both sides of the issue but one thing I don't really buy is that going to college does anything for the education of ball players. It does in some cases but for many they just play ball and ignore their education as best they can. I think you could make a case that they are already making a living playing basketball. A minor league would probably be the best solution but that has to be economically viable and it's iffy.

 

[myrondizzo]

what does race have to do with anything?

 

[JPlay]

He's right it is a double standard. Baseball players are drafted out of high-school and sometimes as juniors. It's just that the NBA is a higher profile league and there is a perception that all these kids are uneducated street punks.

Although the NBA has a point. It is their league and they can make their own rules. As long as they are constitutional.