Ossenfort and Free Agency

[Mulli]

You can speculate, but you can't know. How is this a debate?

Known knowns and unknown knowns.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Since they didn't spend much last off-season, this off-season could equate to 2-3 off-seasons.

I wish there was some way to definitively quantify this bc if it were possible I would bet you your entire annual income that isn’t reasonably going to happen. Heck, it isn’t even unreasonably not going to happen.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Since they didn't spend much last off-season, this off-season could equate to 2-3 off-seasons.

Also we cut the pool of available players in half.

 

[TheCardFan]

Since they didn't spend much last off-season, this off-season could equate to 2-3 off-seasons.

That avatar is awesome!!

Still regret not getting one at the time that guy was making them. Wonder what happened to him.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Of course I can know. We literally can’t sign anyone who was signed to a contract for more than a year that isnt cut.

That wasn't the argument at all.

 

[slanidrac16]

I wish there was some way to definitively quantify this bc if it were possible I would bet you your entire annual income that isn’t reasonably going to happen. Heck, it isn’t even unreasonably not going to happen.

Of course that’s not going to happen because those players have been replaced. Still has replaced Allen and Williams has replaced Murphy.

 

[Mulli]

I wish there was some way to definitively quantify this bc if it were possible I would bet you your entire annual income that isn’t reasonably going to happen. Heck, it isn’t even unreasonably not going to happen.

because 2-3 times of "not a whole lot" is still not a whole lot

 

[MadCardDisease]

We can and it wouldn’t equate to two offseasons of spending.

I'm pretty sure the Cardinals will be able to spend enough this offseason to cover the $40M of cap space that they currently have available.

 

[Stout]

Um, source? How do you know we won't aggressively spend on FA this coming year?

There's a difference between aggressively spending--which I highly doubt but is technically possible--and spending enough to cover two FA periods. As you know, there was a segment of the board assuring everyone--arrogantly so, IMO--that it wasn't a big deal not to spend last year because we would double spend next (now this) year. We're hearing crickets from them now, but we heard plenty out of them then. The tune has changed now that reality is setting in lol

 

[Stout]

You can speculate, but you can't know. How is this a debate?

Exactly. No one's naïve enough to think we're going to sign two FA periods' worth of players in one offseason. Gimme a break.

 

[Stout]

I'm pretty sure the Cardinals will be able to spend enough this offseason to cover the $40M of cap space that they currently have available.

So, so not the same as bringing in twice as many players, as you well know. Disingenuousness at its finest here. I have no doubt we'll spend that cap space but only on a limited number of players--certainly not stretching to two offseasons' worth. That kind of cap jiujitsu would be a first in Cards history.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Exactly. No one's naïve enough to think we're going to sign two FA periods' worth of players in one offseason. Gimme a break.

How do you even quantify this? What do you consider 1 FA worth of players?

 

[Mulli]

There's a difference between aggressively spending--which I highly doubt but is technically possible--and spending enough to cover two FA periods. As you know, there was a segment of the board assuring everyone--arrogantly so, IMO--that it wasn't a big deal not to spend last year because we would double spend next (now this) year. We're hearing crickets from them now, but we heard plenty out of them then. The tune has changed now that reality is setting in lol

Have you checked on them? You seem concerned about them.

Exactly. No one's naïve enough to think we're going to sign two FA periods' worth of players in one offseason. Gimme a break.

But it does seem reasonable to expect that more free agents might be signed in the second year of a rebuild than in the first. imo. Especially since they Kyler uncertainty is a little less now. (jinx!)

 

[kerouac9]

So, so not the same as bringing in twice as many players, as you well know. Disingenuousness at its finest here. I have no doubt we'll spend that cap space but only on a limited number of players--certainly not stretching to two offseasons' worth. That kind of cap jiujitsu would be a first in Cards history.

Yeah. We didn't just roll over a bunch of 2023 cap space and earmark it for 2024. We burned it to cut a bunch of dudes.

 

[slanidrac16]

There's a difference between aggressively spending--which I highly doubt but is technically possible--and spending enough to cover two FA periods. As you know, there was a segment of the board assuring everyone--arrogantly so, IMO--that it wasn't a big deal not to spend last year because we would double spend next (now this) year. We're hearing crickets from them now, but we heard plenty out of them then. The tune has changed now that reality is setting in lol

My perspective. Allen and Murphy left and have been replaced by Still and Williams for way less money while gaining experience.
Any player signed last year ( for longer than a year) would have reduced our available cap this year. Thus more available money this year.

 

[Stout]

How do you even quantify this? What do you consider 1 FA worth of players?

Ah, so that's how we'll excuse the lack of follow up with last year's money. "It isn't quantifiable." I see.

Tell you what--if we sign a decent FA CB and a decent FA IDL, that'll get us to where our status quo was before last FA. THEN we would need to sign 2023's worth of FAs, and THEN we would need to sign 2024's FAs. Even if you think modestly for this team and think we should only walk away with 2-3 FA starters per year, that would mean we need to walk away with...checks notes...6-8 FA starters this coming FA period to make up for it. Nagannahappen!

Heck, I'll even be fair and spot you a Kyzir White and a Frodo (who aren't on long-term deals, which creates its own headaches, but whatever). Do you think we're walking away with 4-6 FA starters this coming offseason? I sure don't.

 

[MadCardDisease]

So, so not the same as bringing in twice as many players, as you well know. Disingenuousness at its finest here. I have no doubt we'll spend that cap space but only on a limited number of players--certainly not stretching to two offseasons' worth. That kind of cap jiujitsu would be a first in Cards history.

I'm not following.

Lets say the Cardinals signed Zach Allen last season to the contract that Denver gave him. The $19M he is due this season would cut into the $40M they have available leaving them with essentially $21M of cap space. That $21m would mean there is less money to sign FAs this season. So what if you got 1FA last season and 3FA this season vs just getting 4FA this season.

 

[Stout]

Have you checked on them? You seem concerned about them.

But it does seem reasonable to expect that more free agents might be signed in the second year of a rebuild than in the first. imo. Especially since they Kyler uncertainty is a little less now. (jinx!)

I am concerned about their safety, yes! They're hiding pretty well now, so they must be in danger

I would agree with that assessment of yours, yes. If we can't manage to sign more than we did last year, Monti is a fool.

Welcome back, brother.

 

[oaken1]

So, so not the same as bringing in twice as many players, as you well know. Disingenuousness at its finest here. I have no doubt we'll spend that cap space but only on a limited number of players--certainly not stretching to two offseasons' worth. That kind of cap jiujitsu would be a first in Cards history.

I really wanted Allen Lazard last off season...size we really needed at WR. But he had a backroom deal with the Jets and Arod so there really wasnt any chance of getting him.

who did you realistically want last off season??
Because by my recollection there wasnt really anyone of note worthy of signing. I have watched guys bemoan this point all season. Have seen guys asked this question because of it. But to date I have seen nobody answer...it just gets ignored and the bemoaning continues.

simple english..... regardless of how much money we had to spend there simply were no quality players to spend it on last year......Position set....

 

[Stout]

My perspective. Allen and Murphy left and have been replaced by Still and Williams for way less money while gaining experience.
Any player signed last year ( for longer than a year) would have reduced our available cap this year. Thus more available money this year.

At best that's treading water and using draft capital to make up for FA failures. That's not roster building for a rebuilding team--it's applying band aids and hopium. For a good team, for a deep playoff team? Yes, it is a desirable strategy. To build up a team with no talent? No way.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Of course that’s not going to happen because those players have been replaced. Still has replaced Allen and Williams has replaced Murphy.

You realize with a terrible team you actually want to build on the talent you already have, not just replace them. If you’re only replacing those guys (and as of yet, those two guys haven’t even done that yet), then you’re still going to have gaping holes at the other CB/D-Linemen position.

What you’re advocating for is treading water. Something this franchise has done forever and why we’re consistently bad.

 

[Mulli]

I am concerned about their safety, yes! They're hiding pretty well now, so they must be in danger

I would agree with that assessment of yours, yes. If we can't manage to sign more than we did last year, Monti is a fool.

Welcome back, brother.

Murphy and Allen production can be replaced in FA AND the draft. Might already be close to replacing even.

Thank you, sir!

 

[Cheesebeef]

At best that's treading water and using draft capital to make up for FA failures. That's not roster building for a rebuilding team--it's applying band aids and hopium. For a good team, for a deep playoff team? Yes, it is a desirable strategy. To build up a team with no talent? No way.

Borg.

 

[Stout]

I really wanted Allen Lazard last off season...size we really needed at WR. But he had a backroom deal with the Jets and Arod so there really wasnt any chance of getting him.

who did you realistically want last off season??
Because by my recollection there wasnt really anyone of note worthy of signing. I have watched guys bemoan this point all season. Have seen guys asked this question because of it. But to date I have seen nobody answer...it just gets ignored and the bemoaning continues.

simple english..... regardless of how much money we had to spend there simply were no quality players to spend it on last year......Position set....

I didn't research the players and don't care to waste my time to do so, as it's in the past. Don't tell me you're in the "well, if you don't tell me exactly who you wanted you don't have any room to gripe" faction, are you? That's a poor argument.

Let's put it this way. We should have done more, and not doing so leaves us with more holes now. Surely we can all agree on that simple fact.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Ah, so that's how we'll excuse the lack of follow up with last year's money. "It isn't quantifiable." I see.

Nice try. There isn't some magic number that says if you spent a lot or not in FA, that it equals 2 or 3 FA periods. I truly don't know how to quantify what you were asking, which is why I asked. We have gone round and round why they didn't spend last year.

They seem to have a vision and a plan for this year. If they don't get at least one above average starter this year, I will be very disappointed.