OT Joey Bosa

[GuernseyCard]

You couldn't be more wrong on this point. Players always support players. This is incredibly rare a player is talking about another guys contract. That's one of the biggest lockeroom unwritten rules. Never talk about a teammates contract dispute publically.


Players support players. Why you always see guys saying "Pay the man!".

Any Chargers saying "Pay the man" RE Bosa? *crickets*

You're right. Gates should have kept his mouth shut.

 

[cardsfanmd]

Bodha, are you six years old or currently living in North Korea? The Chargers don't own anyone lol. Both sides are exercising their rights under the CBA. That's it. There is no bad guy. They don't agree. All you are doing is hating on Bosa because you can't comprehend his being unwilling to compromise himself for money. Your shortfalls as a person aren't his fault. He's not breaking his principles, just like they aren't. He's inevitably losing money over it but he's not breaking his balls for them and I dig it.

 

[Russ Smith]

According to ESPN's crawl Bosa wanted to be paid in full for his SINGING(sic) bonus. So it's now clear why they can't reach an accord, the Chargers want him to play football and Bosa wants to sing.

 

[SO91]

you don't get it. This isn't about right and wrong. Its about legality.

Chargers are within their rights. They've broken no agreement. They've attempted to negotiate and come halfway (when they were not required to). Bosa is the one being difficult.

This is not halfway. Halfway would be for the Chargers to give Bosa 1 of the two things they're at odds over. Instead they're offering a half ass compromise that they had to know would be rejected. The Chargers keep saying it would break team precedent, and this is how THEY do business. Maybe they ought to think about changing the way they do business, seeing as they've not been very good lately.

 

[Jasper]

If Bosa is redrafted next year, what do you think will be his draft position?

Drafting someone who has been out of football for a year in the 1st round?

Also someone who is difficult to sign?

Hopefully he doesn't pull a Johnny Manziel and party all year.

 

[Shane]

Bosa is an idiot and so is his agent. He will lose so much damn money by re entering the draft next year dude will drop out of the top 10...

 

[TJ]

you don't get it. This isn't about right and wrong. Its about legality.

Chargers are within their rights. They've broken no agreement. They've attempted to negotiate and come halfway (when they were not required to). Bosa is the one being difficult.

I could sell someone a car for $20,000 above its value. It's a completely legal transaction, but it's not fair market value. See how your legal argument lacks validity? This has been explained to you numerous times in a number of different ways.

I mean this respect, but you pushing the legal aspect demonstrates that you know very little about how contract negotiations work in the NFL, and you should ask questions instead of make statements. If there was a legal issue, outside legal representation (aside from agents) would be involved and they're not. This is a standstill between two parties. One wants fair value based on comps (the Bosa camp); one is trying to have its cake and eat it too (Chargers). If the Chargers want the deal done, it can offer either more money up front or take out offset language, which is what the past #3 picks received in their contract negotiations.

I don't care if you side with the Chargers in these negotiations, but use better information other than, "well, the Chargers are doing it legally; therefore, Bosa should automatically cave in." I don't like being the educator in debates.

 

[Russ Smith]

Bosa is an idiot and so is his agent. He will lose so much damn money by re entering the draft next year dude will drop out of the top 10...

I assume the Chargers will actually put the contract back on the table if it comes to that but at this point they're trying to call Bosa's bluff and say if you won't take our offer you won't play NFL football this season.

 

[TJ]

Bosa is an idiot and so is his agent. He will lose so much damn money by re entering the draft next year dude will drop out of the top 10...

And San Diego will be without its #3 overall pick from 2016, whom they coveted enough to draft that high.

Bosa might appear like an idiot for not signing, but San Diego will look equally, if not more, ignorant for not completing the deal, particularly since the newest CBA was installed to prevent these standoffs from happening ever again.

 

[Shane]

And San Diego will be without its #3 overall pick from 2016, whom they coveted enough to draft that high.

Bosa might appear like an idiot for not signing, but San Diego will look equally, if not more, ignorant for not completing the deal, particularly since the newest CBA was installed to prevent these standoffs from happening ever again.

Good for the Chargers they'll survive.. Bosa may too but he'll be a full year with out millions in his bank account and losing millions more by dropping in the draft by who knows how low... It affects him 1000X more then the organization.

 

[sunsfan88]

Does anyone see the irony in this? The big issue here is that Bosa wants his money in this calendar year. By holding out and re-entering the draft next April, he won't get any money til June at the very earliest.

I don't understand this kid's greed for needing the money right away. I wonder if he has any gang ties or any gambling debts with shady people which are due in 2016 or else they threaten to hurt him or something.

 

[AZCrazy]

It's hard to calculate how much it will hurt the Chargers. They will be without a key player in an area of weakness on a last place team to begin with, but more importantly, every player in the pros and in college is watching this unfold. No one is going to want to go there. As a draft pick or a FA.

 

[Bodha]

This is not halfway. Halfway would be for the Chargers to give Bosa 1 of the two things they're at odds over. Instead they're offering a half ass compromise that they had to know would be rejected. The Chargers keep saying it would break team precedent, and this is how THEY do business. Maybe they ought to think about changing the way they do business, seeing as they've not been very good lately.

Exactly. This is how the Chargers do business. Bosa isnt being mistreated. Hes being treated same as every other Charger.

But thats not how the rest of the league does business!

Im tired of this argument. Its friggin irrelevant.

You work at Target (Chargers). They do business different from Walmart (rest of NFL). You work for Target (Chargers), you live by their rules. And if Target (Chargers) issues bonuses in segments, instead of bulk, then deal with it.

I could sell someone a car for $20,000 above its value. It's a completely legal transaction, but it's not fair market value. See how your legal argument lacks validity? This has been explained to you numerous times in a number of different ways.

No because the amount of money is not the issue. Say the car is blue booked at $10,000. You sell it for $10,000. The argument is whether you get 1 big $10,000 check, or 2 $5,000 checks. Completely petty.

I don't care if you side with the Chargers in these negotiations, but use better information other than, "well, the Chargers are doing it legally; therefore, Bosa should automatically cave in." I don't like being the educator in debates.

Im not wrong.

The only reason Im pushing the legality standpoint is to combat the "THEY ARE OBLIGATED TO GIVE BOSA...." argument

No, they are not obligated.

 

[sunsfan88]

It's hard to calculate how much it will hurt the Chargers. They will be without a key player in an area of weakness on a last place team to begin with, but more importantly, every player in the pros and in college is watching this unfold. No one is going to want to go there. As a draft pick or a FA.

FA players go where the money is. This isn't the NBA where plays take significant pay cuts all the time to play for contenders. If the Chargers have salary cap space and the money to spent, players will come. Especially considering that San Diego (and even LA if it comes to that) is the best city to live in out of all cities with NFL teams.

As for college players...lol...like they have a damn choice about which team picks them. Hasn't happened since Eli Manning and it ain't about to happen now either.

 

[Kel Varnsen]

My friend, I'm the one with the Law degree so don't presume. No one argues that the team is within its rights to defer payment but Bosa has every legal right to demand full adherence to the spirit and letter of an agreement. Difficult? Depends on what side of the table and we know on what side you sit.

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[TJ]

No, they are not obligated.

No one is saying the Chargers FO is "obligated" to do anything, just like Bosa isn't obligated to sign a contract below market value. Rather, the consequence for letting this thing fester goes beyond having a player hold out; particularly for a franchise whose public perception isn't very positive these days (poor record, attendance issues, rotting stadium, uncertainty of future playing location, etc.), could be profound for future players and overall performance on the field. Despite what Shane said about survival, San Diego could easily go into irrelevancy if it continues this mishigas.

The Bosa camp is asking for either more money up front, or offset language taken out, not both, similar to all of the #3 overall picks since 2011. Had the Bosa camp dug its heels in and demanded both, then I'd say Bosa can pound sand (although I was surprised when I heard that #5 overall CB Jalen Ramsey got money up front and no offset language in his contract).

The compromise here is pretty easy to figure out.

 

[Shane]

Bosa is being misinformed by his agent pure and clear this will cost him millions and it's a dumb play... The whole "I'll show these guys" mentality...

 

[BigRedRage]

No fair, but oh well. LNF. Fairness has no business in this world.

Bottom line: This is on Bosa to end holdout, not Chargers.

Solution: Bosa realizes lifes not fair. Signs contract. Plays it out. Becomes free agent and plays elsewhere in 4 years.

*and on a sidenote "bad contract". Kid whos never played a snap in the NFL is guaranteed $20mill and its a "bad contract". Bad "compared to others". The entitlement is staggering.

So he should get on his knees and just accept getting a crappier contract than any other team would give him just because he was drafted by this team. Got it.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

 

[Bodha]

No one is saying the Chargers FO is "obligated" to do anything, just like Bosa isn't obligated to sign a contract below market value. Rather, the consequence for letting this thing fester goes beyond having a player hold out; particularly for a franchise whose public perception isn't very positive these days (poor record, attendance issues, rotting stadium, uncertainty of future playing location, etc.), could be profound for future players and overall performance on the field. Despite what Shane said about survival, San Diego could easily go into irrelevancy if it continues this mishigas.

Bach was saying the Chargers were obligated to give Bosa everything he demanded, thats why I brought up the Chargers legal right of way RE this issue (ignore he wasnt aware this is not a total sum issue):

But you don't Seem to get that the Chargers are obligated to offer Bosa a higher dollar amount than Elliot (i know in theory it's last year #4 + increase in cap) and Bosa Can wait to sign until november. It's Bosa's right to do so when the Chargers don't follow precedence.

There is a CBA in place. The Chargers are obligated to offer Bosa x amount of money as the 3rd overall Pick. Under the slated system the amount is fixed and all the contracts have been formed in a certain Way. The Chargers are offering Bosa a contract worse than all other 31 teams would. How about Bosa's motive is that he wants a standard contract under the CBA as the 3rd overall Pick. With the New CBA and the slotted system top draftpick contracts Were reduced to almost 1/3 in value and 50% in signing bonus. To balance this out the players have gotten this offset language and single payout into their contracts. The Chargers don't want to do what all other teams see as standard

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Bosa camp is asking for either more money up front, or offset language taken out, not both, similar to all of the #3 overall picks since 2011. Had the Bosa camp dug its heels in and demanded both, then I'd say Bosa can pound sand (although I was surprised when I heard that #5 overall CB Jalen Ramsey got money up front and no offset language in his contract).

THAT is the sticking point that I seemingly have to come back to over, and over, and over.

Jalen Ramsey got that from the Jags huh? And......?

Bosa wasnt drafted by the Jags. How does another player on another team apply to the Chargers team procedures? It doesnt.

It doesnt. It doesnt. It doesnt. It doesnt. It doesnt matter what the neighbors do (im so exhausted with this).

So he should get on his knees and just accept getting a crappier contract than any other team would give him just because he was drafted by this team. Got it.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

correct.

And keep in mind "crappier" is in regards to WHEN he gets his money, not HOW MUCH.

Petty.

 

[Bodha]

In summary:


Chargers are breaking an unwritten rule of football.


Its at most an annoyance, not a penalty.



I do NOT agree with what they are doing. However I defend their right to run their team how they choose.

 

[sunsfan88]

Bosa's representatives respond:

It is unfortunate the San Diego Chargers have decided to manipulate facts and negotiate in the media. The team surely is not strengthening its relationship with Joey Bosa by taking this stance and making their position public.

We have decided that we will not engage in public negotiations or discuss numbers and/or terms in this negotiation.

We will say, that it is ironic that the team now takes issue with the timing of Joey’s arrival, since the Chargers unilaterally decided to remain silent for the first 14 days of training camp instead of replying in a timely fashion to the proposal we made on the eve of training camp on July 28th. At this point, all we can do is continue to fight for a fair contract on behalf of our client, as we do for all of our clients. The Chargers can focus on trying to sway public opinion, but our focus will remain on our client and securing a contract for him that is fair and consistent with his draft position.

This is turning ugly.

 

[sunsfan88]

Bosa's father, John, also was a holdout as an NFL rookie. John Bosa was a defensive lineman drafted No. 16 by the Miami Dolphins in 1987 and held out 41 days before signing his rookie contract, according to ESPN Stats & Information research.

Like father, like son.

 

[WisconsinCard]

[QUOTE="Bodha, post: 3379770,
Already pointed out a couple Chargers, including Gates, whos arguably the Fitz of that team, publically saying Bosa needs to cut it out. If Gates is saying it out loud, you know 100% of that lockeroom is saying internally.

definition of a pyrrhic battle[/QUOTE]

Pretty rich coming from Gates, why wasn't "he a man" and get to camp during his hold out?

 

[WisconsinCard]

Those are the rules in the NFL.

The Chargers own his rights by drafting him. If he doesn't like it he can sit out for a year and reenter the Draft.

There is the rub, he won't hold out for the year, he'll wait until Nov. 10 and basically turn the 4 year deal into a 3 year deal for the same money.

 

[Bodha]

Pretty rich coming from Gates, why wasn't "he a man" and get to camp during his hold out?

I don't condone holding out either way, but the situation is a little different because Gates had a couple seasons and pro bowl under his belt by then. Bosa is a rookie whos done nothing.


And again, the issue isn't total dollars. The $ is $17M period. Bosa is complaining over WHEN he gets his guaranteed $17M.

Insanely petty.