OT Joey Bosa

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I'm wondering if the Chargers' expectations of playing Bosa as a 5 technique DE in the 34 has Bosa less than excited and more concerned about his long-term durability. He would seem ideally suited to play LDE in a 43....which is what he played at Ohio St. Setting and rushing the edge is his forte.
I don't know how they would know that seeing as they haven't been able to see him "live" and in full contact situations.

The whole situation is really pretty stupid on both sides of the coin.
 

Mitch

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I don't know how they would know that seeing as they haven't been able to see him "live" and in full contact situations.

The whole situation is really pretty stupid on both sides of the coin.

The Chargers have said that's where they want him---inside at LDE in the 34. They want him to be their version of J.J. Watt. But, isn't Bosa more like a Jared Allen edge guy? That's why Bosa might be at odds with, as they say, the "team and scheme."
 

BACH

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Bach was saying the Chargers were obligated to give Bosa everything he demanded, thats why I brought up the Chargers legal right of way RE this issue (ignore he wasnt aware this is not a total sum issue):



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THAT is the sticking point that I seemingly have to come back to over, and over, and over.

Jalen Ramsey got that from the Jags huh? And......?

Bosa wasnt drafted by the Jags. How does another player on another team apply to the Chargers team procedures? It doesnt.

It doesnt. It doesnt. It doesnt. It doesnt. It doesnt matter what the neighbors do (im so exhausted with this).




correct.

And keep in mind "crappier" is in regards to WHEN he gets his money, not HOW MUCH.

Petty.
Why are you deliberately altering what I wrote??

I even wrote that I was full aware that offset language was not part of the CBA.

What I did write was that the salary figures were slotted by the CBA and the Chargers have to respect this under the CBA. The Chargers are now trying to say that they are not oligated by this because Bosa on purpose has prolonged the process so he won't play the entire season. Are they able to do this? Don't know.

And you still not get the point of why Bosa has an issue. The Chargers are not following the general practice for contracts for #3 overall picks. Bosa is asking for something that ALL other 3rd overall picks have gotten. He's not asking for something different. And yeah... I have heard your "life isn't fair". That goes for the Chargers as well. If they don't want to do contracts the same way as ALL OTHER 31 TEAMS, then don't suck so you have to draft in the top 5 or trade out of the top 5. The two QBs were going 1st and 2nd so the Chargers had all options to reach out to the agents of ALL other players. Why didn't they?
 

Bodha

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Accepting “no” unequivocally is what children do, not adults as you suggest.

Its not unequivocally. They've been negotiating like adults. However, there comes a point after much negotiation, where progress needs to be made. And that's a result of both sides making concessions.

Both sides have made concessions to the other. And as ive said many times, this is not a equal partnership. Bosa is a not a free agent. The Chargers are is boss until the 2017 draft, with or without a contract. Its a situation we only see in sports because real normal life doesn't have a Draft system.

So like I said, the negotiation balance of power is realistically 70-30. If he were a free agent, it would be 50-50, but hes not. Bosa has exhausted the extent of that 30, and therefore he needs to recognize hes the one who needs to make more concessions than the other side. Its not being a yes man. Its about being aware of your position, leverage, odds.

The general who knows hes defeated surrenders and lets his men go home to their families. The general who thinks hes on equal footing with his enemy (when hes clearly not) will waste the lives of his men, just like Bosa is about to waste his rookie year.

If you really think Bosa and SD are 50-50 balance of power in these negotiations, then we don't have anything more to talk about.

Then you went off the rails, switched lanes, and started comparing him to other players on SD, other teams, the CBA

? No I didn't. Ive spent the last 20 pages combating the idea "Last year, the #3 pick from the Jaguars got X, therefore Bosa is guaranteed to also get X"

No hes not. Sum of money? Yes, and hes getting it. Same contract structure? NO.

Everyone in here keeps pointing to what other teams do with their players. And I use obscure scenario metaphor examples desperately trying to reach somebody.

You can disagree with his position, although frankly I’m having a hard time understanding your own motivations.

My motivation:

I disagree with what San Diego is doing, but I support their right to run their team how they choose.

Everybody is trying to force SD to conduct their contracts like every other team. I support SD FREEDOM of choice to go against the grain.

Much like freedom of speech. I may disagree with what youre saying, but I support your right to say it. I despise Trump and his supporters, but I support their right to their beliefs.

Im doing this on principle.
 

RugbyMuffin

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*The older Kellen Winslow, the TE who could actually play football. He’s still the best TE SD ever had in their history. Gates can suck a fat one. Kellen Winslow is the poo and always will be in my eyes. Watching him when I was a kid, just do these historic and unprecedented things, lay it all on the field, he was an inspiration to me. He made me love football and he and Don Coryell transitioned me from hard-nosed running football to high octane passing football. They brought me into the future, they drug me with them, dragged me to the finish line.

Winslow couldn't block a doorway, it is definitely a good argument between the two. In today's football, yeah, I Winslow would be looked at as better, but then again, blocking is the absolute, #1, without a shadow of a doubt, most under-appreciated skill in the game. Yet, it is as big of part of football as the tackle.
 

oaken1

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if jb does not want to play for the chargers then no amount of money is going to make it taste good...
at this point he should just sit out and re enter the draft.... taking less money to play for a team that you want to be a part of will provide him with much more job satisfaction...and when his next contract comes he will get paid.
 

Darkside

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Winslow couldn't block a doorway, it is definitely a good argument between the two. In today's football, yeah, I Winslow would be looked at as better, but then again, blocking is the absolute, #1, without a shadow of a doubt, most under-appreciated skill in the game. Yet, it is as big of part of football as the tackle.
Fair point, though I'm not sure blocking would have helped Chuck Muncie, he seemed to fumble a lot, but only when it mattered.
 

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There are 2 reasons why Bosa is dumb 1) he loses a ton of money by reentering the draft 2) by not playing he pushes his first year or FA a year later which in turn could mean he loses how many chances he gets at a big payday


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Jetstream Green

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The Chargers have said that's where they want him---inside at LDE in the 34. They want him to be their version of J.J. Watt. But, isn't Bosa more like a Jared Allen edge guy? That's why Bosa might be at odds with, as they say, the "team and scheme."
Mitch, I personally think Bosa does not want to be a Charger... the money he would rather get from another team opposed to going to a franchise which is in obvious flux and the whole money thing at the moment is a ploy for actually reentering the draft no matter if he loses money in the short term in my opinion :)
 

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I honestly thought dallas would draft Bosa and to see the chargers scoop him up only not to sign him. what a waste if he does not play!
 

WisconsinCard

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There are 2 reasons why Bosa is dumb 1) he loses a ton of money by reentering the draft 2) by not playing he pushes his first year or FA a year later which in turn could mean he loses how many chances he gets at a big payday


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He's not going to re-enter the draft he'll wait it out as long as he can and then sign. Then San Diego can pay him for doing nothing this year. San Diego is a joke, and only hurting themselves. JB will be fine, and move on as soon as his rookie contract will allow.
 

BACH

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As they should. The Chargers are a bad joke.
What I love about this is that the Chargers told the media that they ignored Bosa's contract proposal for 14 days without ever reaching out and now they are blaming Bosa for prolonging the process
 

oaken1

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He's not going to re-enter the draft he'll wait it out as long as he can and then sign. Then San Diego can pay him for doing nothing this year. San Diego is a joke, and only hurting themselves. JB will be fine, and move on as soon as his rookie contract will allow.

san diego can take the offer off of the table.
 

TJ

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Another aspect here is that Tom Condon is his agent. Condon is one of the most respected agents in the industry and knows the system in an out. He doesn't take below market value contracts, and has actually screw over teams in deals (e.g. Eagles and Sam Bradford). Condon is not even remotely looking to do that here.

In addition, because Condon represents a number of talented players, this rift may have a carryover effect to San Diego signing some of his other clients.

San Diego's idiocy and lack of foresight is definitely going to hurt them.
 
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Darkside

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Its not unequivocally. They've been negotiating like adults. However, there comes a point after much negotiation, where progress needs to be made. And that's a result of both sides making concessions.

Both sides have made concessions to the other. And as ive said many times, this is not a equal partnership. Bosa is a not a free agent. The Chargers are is boss until the 2017 draft, with or without a contract. Its a situation we only see in sports because real normal life doesn't have a Draft system.

So like I said, the negotiation balance of power is realistically 70-30. If he were a free agent, it would be 50-50, but hes not. Bosa has exhausted the extent of that 30, and therefore he needs to recognize hes the one who needs to make more concessions than the other side. Its not being a yes man. Its about being aware of your position, leverage, odds.

The general who knows hes defeated surrenders and lets his men go home to their families. The general who thinks hes on equal footing with his enemy (when hes clearly not) will waste the lives of his men, just like Bosa is about to waste his rookie year.

If you really think Bosa and SD are 50-50 balance of power in these negotiations, then we don't have anything more to talk about.



? No I didn't. Ive spent the last 20 pages combating the idea "Last year, the #3 pick from the Jaguars got X, therefore Bosa is guaranteed to also get X"

No hes not. Sum of money? Yes, and hes getting it. Same contract structure? NO.

Everyone in here keeps pointing to what other teams do with their players. And I use obscure scenario metaphor examples desperately trying to reach somebody.



My motivation:

I disagree with what San Diego is doing, but I support their right to run their team how they choose.

Everybody is trying to force SD to conduct their contracts like every other team. I support SD FREEDOM of choice to go against the grain.

Much like freedom of speech. I may disagree with what youre saying, but I support your right to say it. I despise Trump and his supporters, but I support their right to their beliefs.

Im doing this on principle.

I hesitated before responding, since this thread seems destined to die of its own momentum, but I do take issue with a couple of your points that I've bolded. I believe these are the main sticking points in the disagreement:

1. The Chargers are not his "boss". They're not his boss until he signs that contract. They don't have any more leverage than he does. They own his contractual rights and therefore he can't simply go play for another team at this time. A normal "boss", whether in the public sector or private sector, can dictate to the employee his future actions. SD doesn't have that leverage, their only leverage is saying he won't get his money when he wants and to not let him play--if he's okay with that, if he doesn't want to play for them anyway, if he doesn't care about their money, then they have zero leverage. The CBA is designed by definition to bring the balance of power as close to 50-50 as possible. In a real world scenario where most of us live and breathe and make our living this isn't the case, it's more like 70-30 as you stated. This is precisely why comparing his situation to civilians working a 9-5 is nonsense; more rhetorical than reality.

2. What you're asking Bosa to do is being a yes man. If you're expecting him to sign and ignore his priorities, principles, and motivations simply to get his money...that is the very definition of a yes man. You continually talk about being an adult, and this is part of being one, not everyone is motivated by the same things. We don't know what Bosa's motivations are, what his principles are, and you know why? Because he hasn't spoken publicly, he's doing the right thing and letting his agent handle negotiations based on his own desires. He hasn't whined to the media, he's not on SportsCenter whining about it, he hasn't made a single public statement regarding this. SD meanwhile took it public. So who's more professional, I ask? A bunch of multi-millionaires and a franchise worth billions, whining to the media--the corporate suits--or this kid who has kept his mouth shut and refuses to take the money and run?

You, and others like you, who think he should give in or cave, without knowing anything about the man or his motivations, that tells me more about you than him. You have an ingrained assumption that he offers nothing of value outside of playing football for the San Diego Chargers, that this is his only chance to make a payday and play football, that's in essence what you're saying. You'd rather have an Albert Haynesworth make millions upon millions while doing nothing on the football field than have some guy refuse the money in hopes of a better opportunity playing elsewhere, where he can make a difference for less money.

3. Nobody is trying to "force" SD to "conduct their contracts like every other team". We're on a forum, we can't force anything, we're just saying it's ignorant. And ill-advised. And quite stupid. They really need a #1 pick and a difference maker. SD isn't good, and even with Bosa they would suck, but he could be a legit player you can build around for a decade, if things rolled their way. But SD blew that opportunity.

I probably already know the answer to this, but if we had somehow drafted Bosa, do you think this would have happened? Do you think Keim would have had issues getting this **** signed?

4. You may be doing this on principle, but they're not principles I agree with. Giving in for money, tucking your tail between your legs, despite how you feel personally or professionally. Accepting no unequivocally. Praising the man, praising the system, ignoring precedent in other contract negotiations because this dude pisses you off personally. You really think this dude should take the money and run, then you can turn around later and talk about how greedy he was and didn't live up to the hype. Another greedy athlete like DWash, Haynesworth, others. But because he doesn't fit that mold, that stereotype you have in your head, then he's a dick. Because if he's not going to bow down to that stuff, you--and the corporate douchebags--have no leverage on this dude, you have nothing. There's no controlling him, and honestly, I think that bothers the fudge out of you.
 

Bodha

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1. The Chargers are not his "boss". They're not his boss until he signs that contract. They don't have any more leverage than he does. They own his contractual rights and therefore he can't simply go play for another team at this time.

Thats true, and I already understood that.

The fact they do own his rights, and therefore have a degree of control over his life, make them an authority IE a boss. Its just a quicker way to say the same thing.



2. What you're asking Bosa to do is being a yes man.

No, theres a big difference. A Yes man says yes when theres better options. Bosa has 2 options. Sign or sit. Sitting is a very bad option.

Sign - you get your full #3 overall salary + bonus. It may not be structured how you want, but its money in the bank.

Sit - unknown. Maybe you slide to #20 next year. Instead of a $30M contract for the #3 spot, you can get a $15M at #20. But its structured how you want.....

$30M > $15M regardless of structure.


You, and others like you, who think he should give in or cave, without knowing anything about the man or his motivations, that tells me more about you than him. You have an ingrained assumption that he offers nothing of value outside of playing football for the San Diego Chargers, that this is his only chance to make a payday and play football, that's in essence what you're saying. You'd rather have an Albert Haynesworth make millions upon millions while doing nothing on the football field than have some guy refuse the money in hopes of a better opportunity playing elsewhere, where he can make a difference for less money.

No I dont know his motivations, but for the point I made above, the wise thing to do is sign.

And on a side note, I dont know him. Just like none of us know Manziel. But as observers, we observe Manziel is a turd. Bosa is similar. Hes a total d-bag. I know this from observing him for his 3 years at Ohio State. Hes a jerk and a bully.

*Not that that has anything to do with this contract issue. Just pointing out hes an unlikable guy.

3. Nobody is trying to "force" SD to "conduct their contracts like every other team".

Yes you are. Saying they should act like everybody else is infringing on their freedom Not to act like everyone else.

Again...I dont agree with it. But I defend their right to do so.
 

Bodha

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He just signed.


Wise decision.
 

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