OT - Report concludes Patriots probably cheated, Brady aware

[sunsfan88]

Pats fans are truly pathetic.

 

[Phrazbit]

The only thing about this entire affair that I consider worth noting is; why do the Patriots bother to try and bend the rules? They played with fully (probably extra) inflated footballs in the 2nd half of the Colt game, they demolished Indy in the process, and in the Superbowl, where they overcame the Seahawk monster that many thought would chew them up.

Similar to "Spygate". They get caught doing that, get punished, then the following year, while under intense scrutiny they came a fluke helmet catch away from going down as they greatest team in NFL history.

I don't think this at all taints their success, but it does reveal just how competitive those guys are. They don't need to bend the rules to win, but they do anyway because they're obsessed with winning.

The hate people have for Brady and Bill is spawned from envy, not from disgust. If the Cards felt that the use of stick-em, spys, drones, flubber... whatever, would be enough to ensure a title then I hope they do it.

 

[mojorizen7]

I've heard some commentators speculating that this would put a strain on the relationship between Goodell and Kraft. Ridiculous. This is all about rich dudes playing pattycake. The best outcome for all involved is exactly what's happening. Goodell gets to try and show some backbone, and when Brady wins on appeal or gets it drastically reduced it'll be meaningless. The net gain is somewhere near zero, if not a positive public image gain for Goodell, which Kraft needs so he can keep lining his pockets with gold while continuing to win championships. It's rich people game.

+1

 

[sunsfan88]

Let's not forget the two low paid employees have been suspended by the team without pay for following team orders. Tom missing out on a million five is nothing compared to the Joes who followed orders. They cheated and deserve punishment too, but, unlike Tom and the team, their lifestyles are severely affected.

Imo they may be able to file suits for that. They were only doing as ordered.

 

[sunsfan88]

If this doesn't send a message to teams nothing will.

If Brady's suspention gets reduced, there is no message.

 

[sunsfan88]

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[juza76]

Imo they may be able to file suits for that. They were only doing as ordered.

who come out with the story about deflated balls?

 

[sunsfan88]

who come out with the story about deflated balls?

Um the Colts when they played with one of the deflated balls and turned in the deflated ball to the league?

 

[juza76]

Um the Colts when they played with one of the deflated balls and turned in the deflated ball to the league?

so the employers who followed the orders werent questioned by nfl?

or they have been immediately fired by new england?
so its probable they are still be paid well by them,just to keep their silence or they have to state what has been told them to say

 

[Russ Smith]

So if there's a "gaping loophole," there's no proper protocol. The Competition Committee needs to close that loophole immediately.

We act like Brady is the only quarterback that has ever improperly modified footballs, when this happens more often than people want to admit to. After this surfaced, a number former NFL QBs came out of the woodwork and said this is a common practice in the league.

And at the end of the day, we're arguing over 1-1.5 PSI. The integrity of the game wasn't tarnished in any way and no one got hurt. Much ado about nothing.

The NFL is a business with teams as partners. The NFL assumes its partners will follow the rules, when they don't they punish them. You can't design a system that doesn't have a loophole, you treat your partners as adults, and once again the Patriots cheated.

They knew it was against the rules, its' clear from the texts.

 

[WisconsinCard]

so the employers who followed the orders werent questioned by nfl?

or they have been immediately fired by new england?
so its probable they are still be paid well by them,just to keep their silence or they have to state what has been told them to say

They were questioned, and they surrendered their phone to the NFL. That is where they got the text messages from. As of now the lower tier employees are suspended without pay.

 

[Southpaw]

Integrity my ass! Court of public opinion and perception trumps law.

BTW, Did Tom Brady have a better lawyer/advisor than the 2 stooges who self incriminated? Seems so. Don't expect much from 2 middle aged ball boys.

The Fifth Amendment to the United States Constitution is part of the Bill of Rights and protects a person against being compelled to be a witness against himself or herself in a criminal case. Pleading the Fifth is a colloquial term for invoking the privilege that allows a witness to decline to answer questions that might incriminate him or her, without penalty or it counting against him or her.

Troy Vincent is drunk with his new found power. He dictated the penalties, not Roger. He may have just greased the skids for the exit process for Goodell. Roger has had the unflappable support of Bobby Kraft. Kraft is Roger's ambassador. Troy Vincent has been bungling these sanctions,going back to Rice, Peterson, Hardy, etc. and Roger has taken the heat. Maybe Troy believes he is the heir apparent to Commissioner. That makes him a fool. He just spanked one of the strongest owners in the NFL. Troy has actualized and maxxed out his career.

Now bring on the NFLPA and eventually arbitration.

 

[DemsMyBoys]

Now bring on the NFLPA and eventually arbitration.

Yep.

 

[Russ Smith]

Integrity my ass! Court of public opinion and perception trumps law.

BTW, Did Tom Brady have a better lawyer/advisor than the 2 stooges who self incriminated? Seems so. Don't expect much from 2 middle aged ball boys.



Troy Vincent is drunk with his new found power. He dictated the penalties, not Roger. He may have just greased the skids for the exit process for Goodell. Roger has had the unflappable support of Bobby Kraft. Kraft is Roger's ambassador. Troy Vincent has been bungling these sanctions,going back to Rice, Peterson, Hardy, etc. and Roger has taken the heat. Maybe Troy believes he is the heir apparent to Commissioner. That makes him a fool. He just spanked one of the strongest owners in the NFL. Troy has actualized and maxxed out his career.

Now bring on the NFLPA and eventually arbitration.

It's not a criminal case, the 5th amendment isn't relevant.

But yes I agree the reason the employees are suspended and not allowed to get paid now is because they couldn't afford proper representation.

 

[TJ]

Ok, this is hilarious

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[oaken1]

The only thing about this entire affair that I consider worth noting is; why do the Patriots bother to try and bend the rules? They played with fully (probably extra) inflated footballs in the 2nd half of the Colt game, they demolished Indy in the process, and in the Superbowl, where they overcame the Seahawk monster that many thought would chew them up.

Similar to "Spygate". They get caught doing that, get punished, then the following year, while under intense scrutiny they came a fluke helmet catch away from going down as they greatest team in NFL history.

I don't think this at all taints their success, but it does reveal just how competitive those guys are. They don't need to bend the rules to win, but they do anyway because they're obsessed with winning.

The hate people have for Brady and Bill is spawned from envy, not from disgust. If the Cards felt that the use of stick-em, spys, drones, flubber... whatever, would be enough to ensure a title then I hope they do it.

I don't have issues with Brady really....but I do have a strong disdain for billicheat....
and it is not due to envy....that entire obsessive compulsive drive is indeed disgusting as it proves poor character and misguided priorities

what I really kinda hate is that "most favored status" that teams like the Pats and the cowboys get from the league and the media...they are treated as if they are above the rules/law and do not have to abide by the same standards of conduct as everyone else.

I have been waiting years for the redbirds to win a title and when it happens I will be so stoked....however, if it were to come out that they won because they cheated,....well,....my superbowl champs ball cap would go straight into the burn pile....there is a good chance that I would not watch the birds any longer after that. Part of the reason I have always loved this squad is because the organization carries itself with integrity and standards

 

[Southpaw]

It's not a criminal case, the 5th amendment isn't relevant.

But yes I agree the reason the employees are suspended and not allowed to get paid now is because they couldn't afford proper representation.

and he wasn't deposed and it ain't a civil case in a court of law, so that is the BS of it. He didn't "cooperate". Arbitration at the worst.

 

[moklerman]

While I think under-inflated footballs give a very distinct advantage, that's beside the point. What the Patriots continue to do is make people question the integrity of the game. Not all, but I'd say it's in the 50/50 range that fans now wonder just how level a playing field there is on Sundays.

The public will put up with a lot and will probably absorb this but how many incidents before it actually hurts the game?

And why do the Patriots do it? Petulance?

When they were caught taping the Rams all the evidence was quickly destroyed. They(the entire league) were told to stop doing that crap. But they didn't and were caught doing it again against the Jets. They obviously don't care but they even flaunt it. Maybe they'll go too far and the league will find a way to really penalize them.

A $1M fine is basically nothing to an NFL franchise and a couple of draft picks has already proven to not mean much to the Patriots so I don't see this as much of a penalty compared to a SB trophy. Every single team in the league would gladly make that trade-off.

I wonder if the other things that they presumably do will be aired at some point? I have to assume this is tip of the iceberg type stuff but the Colts have had it out for them and are sick of their cheating as were the Jets, so I wonder if any more will come to light?

 

[Covert Rain]

If Brady's suspention gets reduced, there is no message.

Disagree. Losing two draft picks is a pretty big damn message.

 

[frankeegee1]

On Mike and Mike this morning, Adam Schefter (sp?) commented that even with the $1 million fine, the Patriots actually come out ahead, because they don't have to pay Brady 4 games. I believe he said it was about $900,000 that they were ahead?

 

[moklerman]

Disagree. Losing two draft picks is a pretty big damn message.

Not when they have over a year to plan around it. Losing two draft picks this year would have been a strong message.

Losing two draft picks over the next two years won't mean much at all.

 

[Russ Smith]

and he wasn't deposed and it ain't a civil case in a court of law, so that is the BS of it. He didn't "cooperate". Arbitration at the worst.

He didn't cooperate. If you've read even any of the report you can see they go on and on in a letter to him detailing why they're suspending him for 4 games. Because they gave him repeated chances to answer questions directly and he either refused or danced around the question. Because they asked him to provide information to help them determine his role and he refused to cooperate. In the end they said it was evident to them he was intentionally not cooperating. You can literally read between the lines they are saying you know you did it and you think if you refuse to cooperate you'll get away with it, you're not getting away with it.

 

[don7031]

what I really kinda hate is that "most favored status" that teams like the Pats and the cowboys get from the league and the media...they are treated as if they are above the rules/law and do not have to abide by the same standards of conduct as everyone else.

I would say the Patriots are the leagues whipping boys. On a freezing day in Minnesota, the Vikings and Chiefs were caught warming the footballs on the sidelines. Which is a more egregious violation of league rules. Their penalty was being told by the ref not to heat the footballs.

 

[Covert Rain]

Not when they have over a year to plan around it. Losing two draft picks this year would have been a strong message.

Losing two draft picks over the next two years won't mean much at all.

Again..disagree. Any time you lose an opportunity to get someone young in the draft to build for the future it's a hit. Picking up someone not drafted or paying for a high priced free agent is going to impact your team.

I think losing draft picks and being suspended are much more effective than any fine you could possibly levy. Besides, 4 games? Might not be a big deal. You go on one win streak and possibly get one win of those 4? Not much of an impact.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Am I the only one who thinks the penalty is about right.

Deflating the balls was intended to give a competitive advantage. That was met with a penalty that creates a competitive disadvantage. That competitive disadvantage--loss of Brady for 4 games, and loss of two picks--is greater than the advantage achieved, thus discouraging others from trying to do a similar thing in the future.