OT - Report concludes Patriots probably cheated, Brady aware

[Rivercard]

Am I the only one who thinks the penalty is about right.

I agree. I think the penalty is fitting and reasonable.

 

[Covert Rain]

Am I the only one who thinks the penalty is about right.

Deflating the balls was intended to give a competitive advantage. That was met with a penalty that creates a competitive disadvantage. That competitive disadvantage--loss of Brady for 4 games, and loss of two picks--is greater than the advantage achieved, thus discouraging others from trying to do a similar thing in the future.

Agree. It's appropriate IMO.

 

[Rivercard]

Am I the only one who thinks the penalty is about right.

We need a poll!!

 

[Russ Smith]

The funniest thing is reading Patriots fans dissect the report and point out the flaws. They all jump over point 3 where it explains the Colts balls were about 13 and the Pats were about 12.5 save 2(per Walt Anderson). Then at halftime the Colts balls were still close to 13, just down slightly, but the Pats balls were measured later and they had lost more air, because they were done 2nd say the Pats fans.

Well that and point 4 in the exact same report, literally the next paragraph, is where they explain that McNally stole the 2 bags of game balls walked down a hallway into a bathroom, was in there nearly 2 minutes and then came out. Walt Anderson said it was the first time in 19 years where right before the game he could not find the game balls.

And again, McNally didn't just have the Pats balls, he had the bag of the Colts balls. He clearly let the air out of the pats balls, but he COULD have tampered with the Colts balls had he wanted to.

That's part of why the NFL is making such a big deal out of this, they had both teams game balls.

 

[daves]

Troy Vincent is drunk with his new found power. He dictated the penalties, not Roger.

I think that's just called, "Doing his job."

In his new role, Vincent, 43, oversees officiating, player discipline, game operations and more.

He may have just greased the skids for the exit process for Goodell. Roger has had the unflappable support of Bobby Kraft. Kraft is Roger's ambassador. Troy Vincent has been bungling these sanctions,going back to Rice, Peterson, Hardy, etc. and Roger has taken the heat. Maybe Troy believes he is the heir apparent to Commissioner. That makes him a fool. He just spanked one of the strongest owners in the NFL. Troy has actualized and maxxed out his career.

So are you saying that because Kraft is a powerful owner, Vincent should've meted out more lenient punishment than he would have for some other team, in the interest of furthering his and Goodell's careers??

There are 32 owners. Of course Kraft isn't going to like taking his medicine. But it's a safe bet that before this discipline was finalized, Vincent and Goodell took the temperature of a good number of the other 31 owners, and know they've got their support in the matter.

...dbs

 

[Covert Rain]

I think that's just called, "Doing his job."





So are you saying that because Kraft is a powerful owner, Vincent should've meted out more lenient punishment than he would have for some other team, in the interest of furthering his and Goodell's careers??

There are 32 owners. Of course Kraft isn't going to like taking his medicine. But it's a safe bet that before this discipline was finalized, Vincent and Goodell took the temperature of a good number of the other 31 owners, and know they've got their support in the matter.

...dbs

Plus there is a bigger issue at stake here. If you let the Patriots continue to do the things they have done that sends a message to all the other teams in the league that you can push that line with little consequence.

It's important to set an expectation of harsh punishment for teams who push that envelope. This isn't just about the Patriots.

 

[Russ Smith]

The one legit complaint I've seen from Patriots fans is why was Brady suspended but not Gostokowski? he refused to cooperate, he refused to turn over his phone, but the NFL decided he wasn't central to their investigation.

Seems like they should suspend him too,

 

[Dback Jon]

I don't have a problem with teams bringing their own footballs. It is in the best interest of the league to have the QBs comfortable with the footballs within the rules.
What they need to revamp is the management of the footballs during the game.
From the initial inspection/approval they need to be under control of a league official until the end of the game.

Would you be ok with pitchers bringing their own balls?

 

[Dback Jon]

Pats fans are truly pathetic.

yes they are. Going with the whole persecuted Boston mentality.

 

[moklerman]

http://www.sharpfootballanalysis.co...iots-mysteriously-became-fumble-proof-in-2007

Stats Show the New England Patriots Became Nearly Fumble-Proof after 2006 Rule Change Proposed by Tom Brady

While speculation exists that “Deflate Gate” was a one time occurrence, data I introduced last week indicated that the phenomena MAY have been an ongoing, long standing issue for the New England Patriots. Today, that possibility looks as clear as day...

 

[ajcardfan]

http://www.sharpfootballanalysis.co...iots-mysteriously-became-fumble-proof-in-2007

Now THAT is far more interesting than what happened in the Colts game.

 

[Dback Jon]

Now THAT is far more interesting than what happened in the Colts game.

Yes - and some of us have been pointing to this for a while.

 

[Brian in Mesa]

Yes - and some of us have been pointing to this for a while.

Since January.

http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/showpost.php?p=3127024&postcount=177

 

[Rivercard]

Since January.

http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/showpost.php?p=3127024&postcount=177

It will be interesting to see if the Patriots fumble more this year.

 

[moklerman]

Sorry, would have given credit if I'd seen your post.

What's more compelling to me is the follow-up article that the author did(which you also already pointed out) that examines how individual players did before and after playing for NE.

 

[Dback Jon]

It will be interesting to see if the Patriots fumble more this year.

Yes it will be

 

[Southpaw]

I think that's just called, "Doing his job."





So are you saying that because Kraft is a powerful owner, Vincent should've meted out more lenient punishment than he would have for some other team, in the interest of furthering his and Goodell's careers??

There are 32 owners. Of course Kraft isn't going to like taking his medicine. But it's a safe bet that before this discipline was finalized, Vincent and Goodell took the temperature of a good number of the other 31 owners, and know they've got their support in the matter.

...dbs

Didn't say that at all.

 

[Dback Jon]

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nfl-in...ct-evidence-against-brady-185753127--nfl.html

NFL investigator says he found direct evidence against Brady

The lawyer who investigated the New England Patriots insisted Tuesday that he found direct, not just circumstantial, evidence to show quarterback Tom Brady knew team employees were deflating footballs.

 

[Russ Smith]

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nfl-in...ct-evidence-against-brady-185753127--nfl.html

NFL investigator says he found direct evidence against Brady

The lawyer who investigated the New England Patriots insisted Tuesday that he found direct, not just circumstantial, evidence to show quarterback Tom Brady knew team employees were deflating footballs.

That can't be true, that would mean Brady is lying.... again. As is his agent... again.

 

[Phrazbit]

Not when they have over a year to plan around it. Losing two draft picks this year would have been a strong message.

Losing two draft picks over the next two years won't mean much at all.

They're losing their 1st round pick, its a big deal. Most here were not willing to give up a 1st for AP, the Pats just lost theirs for nothing.

 

[Dback Jon]

They're losing their 1st round pick, its a big deal. Most here were not willing to give up a 1st for AP, the Pats just lost theirs for nothing.

I'd trade a 1st round for a super bowl

 

[ajcardfan]

I'd trade a 1st round for a super bowl

I grew up in the old Southwest Conference territory. The motto there was, "If you ain't cheating, you ain't trying." And, it was not a joke.


Maybe that's going to become the NFL motto? Unofficially of course.

 

[daves]

Troy Vincent is drunk with his new found power. He dictated the penalties, not Roger. He may have just greased the skids for the exit process for Goodell. Roger has had the unflappable support of Bobby Kraft. Kraft is Roger's ambassador. Troy Vincent has been bungling these sanctions,going back to Rice, Peterson, Hardy, etc. and Roger has taken the heat. Maybe Troy believes he is the heir apparent to Commissioner. That makes him a fool. He just spanked one of the strongest owners in the NFL. Troy has actualized and maxxed out his career.

So are you saying that because Kraft is a powerful owner, Vincent should've meted out more lenient punishment than he would have for some other team, in the interest of furthering his and Goodell's careers??

There are 32 owners. Of course Kraft isn't going to like taking his medicine. But it's a safe bet that before this discipline was finalized, Vincent and Goodell took the temperature of a good number of the other 31 owners, and know they've got their support in the matter.

Didn't say that at all.

Not trying to be argumentative, but that's how it came across to me. What point were you trying to convey?

...dbs

 

[Cardiac]

You're not hearing people defend the Patriots, you're hearing people object to the severity of the punishment given the circumstances. This is akin to receiving a one-year jail sentence for jaywalking because a buddy told the cops that his friend doesn't like waiting to cross the street. Also, the four-month long investigation with 243 pages of information failed to find a smoking gun, and can only purport that Brady "probably" had something to do with altering the balls. Sorry, but that's simply not reason enough to drop the hammer the way the NFL did. 1 game is reasonable. 2 is a stretch, but understandable. 4 plus draft picks is an abuse of power by Goddell....again.

See Russ's post below as to why it wasn't just a little infraction and the penalty was not too severe.

Well that and point 4 in the exact same report, literally the next paragraph, is where they explain that McNally stole the 2 bags of game balls walked down a hallway into a bathroom, was in there nearly 2 minutes and then came out. Walt Anderson said it was the first time in 19 years where right before the game he could not find the game balls.
And again, McNally didn't just have the Pats balls, he had the bag of the Colts balls. He clearly let the air out of the pats balls, but he COULD have tampered with the Colts balls had he wanted to.

That's part of why the NFL is making such a big deal out of this, they had both teams game balls.

You say smoking gun, well moklerman found a link that shows the bullets as well. This also tells me that Billisacheat was also involved.

http://www.sharpfootballanalysis.co...iots-mysteriously-became-fumble-proof-in-2007

With the above analysis I wonder if they will reconsider their decision and increase the penalties and include Billisacheat as a guilty party. His suspension should be for 8 games if not more because this is the 2nd time he has been caught.

 

[Brian in Mesa]

Fans start GoFundMe site to help Patriots pay $1 million fine

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on...ndme-site-to-help-patriots-pay-1-million-fine

So what do you get the team that has everything, including four Super Bowl titles? If you're a Patriots fan unhappy with the NFL's decision to fine the organization $1 million for Deflategate (among other, more substantial penalties), you fire up a GoFundMe page to help offset the cost. Because we all know there's no way a team reportedly worth $2.6 billion can handle what we imagine Gisele jokingly refers to as pocket change.

So here we are.

http://www.gofundme.com/NewEnglandPatriots

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Wow. Just wow.