OT: sorta... steriods

[Russ Smith]

"Olympic legend Carl Lewis is among more than 100 American athletes involved in a cover-up of drug use, documents reveal.

Lewis and two of his training partners all took the same three types of banned stimulants and were caught at the 1988 US Olympic trials, according to the documents released by a disgruntled former senior US anti-doping official, Dr Wade Exum.

But on appeal to their national Olympic committee, all were cleared of inadvertent doping. Two months later, at the Seoul Olympics, Lewis finished second in the 100 metres sprint. But when Canadian Ben Johnson failed his Olympic drug test, Lewis was awarded the 100m gold.

Lewis also won the Olympic long jump - as part of his career tally of nine Olympic gold medals - and his training partner, Joe De Loach, won the 200m in Seoul.

Lewis's lawyer, Martin Singer, has responded to the revelations by saying his client had taken only a herbal remedy.

"Carl did nothing wrong," Mr Singer told The Orange County Register. "There was never intent."

The latest documents show Lewis tested positive for the banned stimulants found in cold medications: pseudoephedrine, ephedrine and phenylpropanolamine.

The World Anti-Doping Agency's chairman, Dick Pound, dismissed the "no intent" defence. Mr Pound has seen copies of the documents and said that in some instances there was almost "automatic forgiveness" by the US officials.

Letters written by a US Olympic Committee executive, Baaron Pittenger, were sent advising some athletes of their positive drug-test results - and at the same time told them they were being cleared.

"It's got to be pretty embarrassing to the USOC," said Mr Pound, "to have their secretary-general writing in the letter, where he advises an athlete of a positive A sample, 'I have to send you this, but we already decided this was inadvertent.' That whole process turned into a joke."

Dr Exum, the former USOC
director for drug control from 1991 to 2000, released more than 30,000 pages of documents to Sports Illustrated. They confirm widespread suspicion of the USOC drug-testing system before it was moved to an independent body, the US Anti Doping Agency, after the Sydney Olympics.

The Herald reported last year that a US athlete tested positive to steroids in 1999 but was allowed to compete - and win an Olympic gold medal - in the 2000 Sydney Games. US officials still refuse to divulge the name of the athlete, or those of 13 other athletes who had failed drug tests around the same time, citing privacy laws.

In the Seoul 100m, Britain's Linford Christie was elevated from third to second after Johnson was disqualified. In later years, Christie was banned for using steroids."

------------------------------------------------------

Exum sued the USOC saying they denied him promotions and raises because of his stance on drug usage coverups, and because he was black. the suit was eventually thrown out of court because he'd failed to prove that he wasn't promoted due to race or his stance on drugs, they didn't say they doubted his information, just he failed to prove his case. Exum released 30,000 pages of documents to Sports Ilustrated in support of his claims and SI ran a huge expose on the subject after looking at his documents.

Sorry to hijack Clif's thread, this stuff just bugs me it's been rampant for a long time and as someone else said the problem is that while steroids can be used safely, when it trickles down to kids, they don't listen to that stuff they go for the quick fix and they end up causing irreparable harm to themselves as a result.

 

[BigJoe]

Hey, long time, no post. As I am mostly absent from posting on the board, although I read it 4 or 5 times a day, ignore as you wish...

I don't get how people can get all indignant now about steroid use when they did and continue to turn their heads in the '70's with the jars of uppers the players were taking then. Somehow Barry Bonds alleged steroid use bothers people when they think about him breaking home run records, but nobody is concerned at all or even bothers to mention that Hank Aaron may have been on some variant of speed at the time he broke Ruth's record. "Integrity of the game" is a myth in all sports. No era or league is exempt from any of the various stains that have been and will continue to be painted across them.

If people want to argue that they are against steroids because of kids, fine. I think it's a diluted argument because I doubt many major leaguers are hanging around high school gyms handing out free samples like heroin dealers. Just like little league, it's not the professional athletes that are causing the problems, it's the moron adults who wish they were professional athletes that cause the problems. But arguing that it affects the "integrity" of a game doesn't make sense. Rules have changed, equipment has changed, training (with or without supplements) has changed, stadiums have changed, the money involved has changed, the media has changed. How can an argument be made that any one thing in a vacuum is affecting the integrity of a constantly evolving entity?

 

[clif]

Hey, long time, no post. As I am mostly absent from posting on the board, although I read it 4 or 5 times a day, ignore as you wish...

I don't get how people can get all indignant now about steroid use when they did and continue to turn their heads in the '70's with the jars of uppers the players were taking then. Somehow Barry Bonds alleged steroid use bothers people when they think about him breaking home run records, but nobody is concerned at all or even bothers to mention that Hank Aaron may have been on some variant of speed at the time he broke Ruth's record. "Integrity of the game" is a myth in all sports. No era or league is exempt from any of the various stains that have been and will continue to be painted across them.

If people want to argue that they are against steroids because of kids, fine. I think it's a diluted argument because I doubt many major leaguers are hanging around high school gyms handing out free samples like heroin dealers. Just like little league, it's not the professional athletes that are causing the problems, it's the moron adults who wish they were professional athletes that cause the problems. But arguing that it affects the "integrity" of a game doesn't make sense. Rules have changed, equipment has changed, training (with or without supplements) has changed, stadiums have changed, the money involved has changed, the media has changed. How can an argument be made that any one thing in a vacuum is affecting the integrity of a constantly evolving entity?

Now that is exactly what I was TRYING to say. You put it very eloquently.



To me it falls into other accepted forms of "enhancements" categories such as Tommy John surgery or microfracture surgery etc. While these are neccessary evils after an injury, there is no doubt that these were not available to players of the past. These are all advances in technology that IMO give todays athlete an advantage to old timers.

 

[DKCards]

Good topic Clif and no you are not alone. I fall along the lines of you and BigJoe. I enjoy watching the bigger fast stronger athletes. The only problem I have is most of them are illegal. If they were legalized I would have no problem at all. There are many other problems that they could be focusing on.



My other question is, are steroids really that bad for the human body. What studies have ever really shown that they are? When used correctly there are many benefits they provide. Now over use of them is harmful but otherwise it is highly debated.



Do they provide an advantage over a non user? Yes but so does a personal trainer, a strict diet, protein supplements, money, surgeries, and various other outside influences to a certain extent.



As far as kids/young adults using because the pros do I think is a weak excuse. When I went to high school well before steroids were an issue I knew of a number of kids that took or thought of taking them. It wasn’t because Pro’s took them it was because they knew it would make them stronger. They did it to try to get to that next level not because their Idols were doing it. If the newer safer designer steroids were allowed one might argue that it would be safer for kids then using the old anabolic steroids that do have many side effects. They are going to use them one way or another. As long as there is fame and money in pro sports people will do what ever they can to get there.

 

[Pariah]

Ding.. Ding...Ding... !!! That statement right there is what bugs me. What does that mean!?


At one point steriods were NOT against the rules in baseball. They were NOT banned... so taking them CANNOT go against the integrity of the game, because the game didn't warrant it.

So for people to criticize players who were doing things that were NOT against the rules is kinda silly.

Now I understand that steriods are illegal..and that is what someone will probably say next...BUT.. if the sports world TRUELY had any integrity.. then they would turn these athletes in to the AUTHORITIES when they fail a drug test... afterall... it's ILLEGAL!!!

How can you just get suspended? Why do they need 3 strikes or whatever. You do it you pay! It's a crime!.. So the hypocrisy is really what gets me.

So you think Babe Ruth was juicing? When I say intergity, I'm not talking about moral upstanding--I'm talking about basing the game on what a human body can do at it natural peak preformance.

Yeah, guys have juiced in the past (see 1970's NFL), but that doesn't make it right.

I stand by my assertion that steroids ruin the integrity of the game.

 

[BodybuildingCardsFan]

Just some quick notes:

I am a bodybuilder, steroids play a very large part in my sport. I am a natural right now, but I will be on them eventually when genetic potential is nearly maxed out as a natural. Bodybuilding treats steroids as an equalizer, and it is generally assumed everyone is enhanced.

Steroids aren't illegalized because of health reasons specifically. Not one(!) death has ever been positively linked to steroids by themselves. Studies show 1 in 300 Americans have used steroids vocationally.

Steroids are perfectly safe if the person using the self-administration has studied them thoroughly, knows their post-cycle therapy (PCT), and has a working knowledge of their body. Teenagers shouldn't use them because they are dangerous for a developing endocrine system, and can leave them requiring Hormonal Replacement Therapy (HRT) because of the damaged endocrine system. Abusing steroids at any age will have side-effects, but the same applies to abusing anything (ie: Vitamin A can cause permanent blindness or even death if abused)

People that say all supplements should be banned piss me off because 99% of supplements are naturally found in food, and in some cases produced by our own body. The only three synthetic ones that work are steroids/HGH/slin, and HGH/slin only truly works for strength athletes such as bodybuilders, powerlifters, strongmen, and olympic lifters. Not all natural supplements necessarily work, it is a person by person basis.

The IOC banned steroids in the 1988 Seoul games, and the US went on to ban them in '91 prior to the '92 Olympics. It was to level the playing field for athletes as concerning synthetic substances.

The only way to get steroids now legally is to require HRT or have some medical condition that requires them for strengthening purposes (ie: cancer).

People need to start studying the subject seriously instead of just going off of what the media says. The media has given even things like creatine negative hype when creatine is naturally occurring in your body, in steak, and fuels biological energy processes.

By the way, steroids have been around since the 1930s. There's a very good chance all of your favorite athletes going back to the 50s were on them, particularly dinabol. The only reason people are bigger/stronger now in addition to steroids is because of better nutrition/training methods. Steroids aren't a magical pill, they require hard work, and a lot of eating to make them take serious effect.

The only people qualified by a degree to speak on steroids are biochemists. Not even your friendly neighborhood doctor knows much, if anything about them. I've run circles around well over ten doctors now on simple things such as the differences between primobolan and test cypinate.

 

[Southpaw]

If you eat beef, you take creatine. If you take a daily multi-viatmin, you take supplements. If you drink milk, you take supplements (milk is fortified with vitamins). If you eat alot of pasta the night before a game, you are supplementing your diet with something that you wouldn't normally take to improve your performance. If you drink coffee to kick off your morning, you are using a chemical that is not found in the body to improve your performance at work. If you eat oysters, ....... anyway, you get the picture. Where do you draw the line?

Yup and 60 % of Americans are fat and /or obese. Huge percentage have cancer, or are at risk. Heart disease. AADS. et al. Yup. The great American diet. 95 % of aflflictions diseases are diet related. Diabetes, cancer, addictions ,et al.

I would hope people would have drawn the line way back, but obviously they haven't. May I take your order sir?

 

[Russ Smith]

I thought after the fall of communism we were told that there are detailed records of all the Russian and East German athletes who died as a result of steroid use? If you're saying they didn't inject stanozol and drop dead so steroids didn't "directly" cause the death, then I would counter by saying not one single human has died of AIDS either because AIDS doesn't kill people it simply suppresses their immune system so badly they end up dying of pneumonia or some cancer because their immune system is too weak.

Smoking doesn't kill people either you don't inhale and drop dead.

Or am i misunderstanding your claim?

 

[ajcardfan]

I'm a hopeless caffeine addict. If they ever come up with a smokable form, like "crack coffee", I'd be doomed.

 

[BodybuildingCardsFan]

I thought after the fall of communism we were told that there are detailed records of all the Russian and East German athletes who died as a result of steroid use? If you're saying they didn't inject stanozol and drop dead so steroids didn't "directly" cause the death, then I would counter by saying not one single human has died of AIDS either because AIDS doesn't kill people it simply suppresses their immune system so badly they end up dying of pneumonia or some cancer because their immune system is too weak.

Smoking doesn't kill people either you don't inhale and drop dead.

Or am i misunderstanding your claim?

Steroids in order to kill a person would have to be abused for many years without any PCT. It effects the endocrine system. However, beings that most people do not use them for long it hasn't been happening. Soviet Bloc athletes took a lot of unhealthy substances besides the steroids. Were they a possible contributor to death in cases of abuse? Yes. Sole contributor? No.

 

[Russ Smith]

Steroids in order to kill a person would have to be abused for many years without any PCT. It effects the endocrine system. However, beings that most people do not use them for long it hasn't been happening. Soviet Bloc athletes took a lot of unhealthy substances besides the steroids. Were they a possible contributor to death in cases of abuse? Yes. Sole contributor? No.

Steroids also tend to lead to all sorts of other issues, guys get too big and have weight related problems, guys get all sorts of other injuries because they're too big (we call this the David Boston effect or years ago the Jeff Bregel effect). Guys on steroids have issues with blood pressure, cholesterol. Then there's the very well scientifically documented issue of steroids and depression, people on steroids have issues with roid rage, but when they get off steroids, depression is a very well known side effect which is why suicide is such a risk.

I'm not saying under supervision with lots of medical knowledge steroids can't be safe. I'm merely speaking to why I think it's so dangerous to make it accepted because of kids, 5% of highschool athletes(boys) now confess to having tried steroids. These guys generally aren't doing it under doctors supervision.

 

[Southpaw]

Steroids in order to kill a person would have to be abused for many years without any PCT. It effects the endocrine system. However, beings that most people do not use them for long it hasn't been happening. Soviet Bloc athletes took a lot of unhealthy substances besides the steroids. Were they a possible contributor to death in cases of abuse? Yes. Sole contributor? No.

Why are you preaching in support of steroids? If you want to take them, go for it. The part I don't understand is why you want to come here and advocate/endorse their use. Are you selling them or just using them and don't want to be all alone while you commit a slow suicide.

 

[ajcardfan]

Why are you preaching in support of steroids? If you want to take them, go for it. The part I don't understand is why you want to come here and advocate/endorse their use. Are you selling them or just using them and don't want to be all alone while you commit a slow suicide.

The human mind has the amazing ability to rationalize almost anything.

 

[kerouac9]

Another thing is that it's one thing if guys are juiced and playing non-contact sports like baseball or track or a "sport" like bodybuildling.

It's another when you have football players juiced and running into each other at high speeds, lifting one another off the ground, diving at knees, etc.

In the NFL, PESs are a huge risk to everyone on the field.

 

[cards 24-7-365]

Why are you preaching in support of steroids? If you want to take them, go for it. The part I don't understand is why you want to come here and advocate/endorse their use. Are you selling them or just using them and don't want to be all alone while you commit a slow suicide.

While I am not speaking for BBCardsFan, but I think the point he is trying to make is that the press has overhyped and misinformed the public as to the harmful side effects of steroid use. The fact is that there is minimal research that suggests many of the claims of harmful effects of steroids that are mentioned in the press. However, like any drug steroids can be abused or used incorrectly - which will lead to harmful side effects. The same could be said for perscription pain killers or muscle relaxers. I think it is crazy that congress and everyone else is attacking steroids like they are - I feel that adolecents abusing over the counter cold medication is a much more dangerous issue than steroids.

A well researched and planned steroid cycle with well researched and planned post cycle therapy (PCT) really poses miniumal long term health risks. That is what the press does not mention and that is what is frustrating to people who may advocate the rational use of steroids under the supervision of a physician. Steroids do enhance the quality of life for many with HIV and other diseased that affect the endocrine or muscluloskeletal system. Why do you think Magic got so big and is so healthy about 15 years after getting HIV?

Many in the bodybuilding world feel as though steroids should be legal the same way that plastic surgery is legal. If I want to improve the way I look, I should be able to use steroids under the supervision of a physician.

I am torn - as I recognize the danger for those who have not researched and planned the use of steroids and who are looking for a quick fix to improve atheltic performance. But I also feel that if used properly and rationally by an adult who understands the potential risks, steroids are no very dangerous.

 

[Southpaw]

But I also feel that if used properly and rationally by an adult who understands the potential risks, steroids are no very dangerous.

absurd.

dangerous, unethical and illegal. Take all you want.

 

[BodybuildingCardsFan]

*sigh* Education must continue...

"'Roid rage" is NOT a scientifically documented result of testosterone enhancement. Depression only results in people that are solely dependent on them (this is what is scientifically documented), it isn't a common occurrence. "'Roid rage" is an overwhelming myth. I've seen people claim creatine rage, people will blame anything.

absurd.

dangerous, unethical and illegal. Take all you want. ---Wallyburger

Why are you preaching in support of steroids? If you want to take them, go for it. The part I don't understand is why you want to come here and advocate/endorse their use. Are you selling them or just using them and don't want to be all alone while you commit a slow suicide. ---Wallyburger

His quote wasn't absurd, yours is. It is a prime example of people buying into what they hear without studying the issue at hand.

They aren't dangerous by ANY amount with proper self-administration and PCT. They are illegal because of the IOC, and the "unethical" part I `dare` you to try to venture in. They'd be unethical because they were illegal, and that's it. They're not dangerous, as I said, with proper self-administration. The problem is most people are too lazy to study anything they put in themselves.

Why am I pro-steroids? Because I actually know what I am talking about from studying, and knowing a plethora of people with anecdotal experience on the subject. Can you say the same? It isn't a slow suicide, but thanks anyways. I suggest you start studying.

Steroids also tend to lead to all sorts of other issues, guys get too big and have weight related problems, guys get all sorts of other injuries because they're too big (we call this the David Boston effect or years ago the Jeff Bregel effect). Guys on steroids have issues with blood pressure, cholesterol. Then there's the very well scientifically documented issue of steroids and depression, people on steroids have issues with roid rage, but when they get off steroids, depression is a very well known side effect which is why suicide is such a risk.

I'm not saying under supervision with lots of medical knowledge steroids can't be safe. I'm merely speaking to why I think it's so dangerous to make it accepted because of kids, 5% of highschool athletes(boys) now confess to having tried steroids. These guys generally aren't doing it under doctors supervision. --- Russ Smith

Thank you Russ, I appreciate the intelligent responds. Guys getting too big and having weight related problems, unless you are the top .000001% of BBers this is a non-issue. Anyone 350 lbs is 99% of the time going to be above 20% body fat. This is a weight-related issue that steroids actually doesn't effect. In fact, one of the biggest pro BBers (Jay Cutler) has fantastic health from the amount of cardio he does, and he is 5'9'', 285 lbs and relatively lean most of the time. Defensive linemen/offensive linemen have weight issues because their body fat is out of hand. That is a dietetics concern.

The one key point you have is on cholesterol. Yes, that is the #1 issue that can be a clear problem with steroids. If you have pre-existing hypertension and high cholesterol it is heavily advised against.

I agree with you absolutely on the subject of kids shouldn't be taking them.

cards 24-7-365 very good post.

 

[conraddobler]

*sigh* Education must continue...

"'Roid rage" is NOT a scientifically documented result of testosterone enhancement. Depression only results in people that are solely dependent on them (this is what is scientifically documented), it isn't a common occurrence. "'Roid rage" is an overwhelming myth. I've seen people claim creatine rage, people will blame anything.

absurd.

dangerous, unethical and illegal. Take all you want. ---Wallyburger

Why are you preaching in support of steroids? If you want to take them, go for it. The part I don't understand is why you want to come here and advocate/endorse their use. Are you selling them or just using them and don't want to be all alone while you commit a slow suicide. ---Wallyburger

His quote wasn't absurd, yours is. It is a prime example of people buying into what they hear without studying the issue at hand.

They aren't dangerous by ANY amount with proper self-administration and PCT. They are illegal because of the IOC, and the "unethical" part I `dare` you to try to venture in. They'd be unethical because they were illegal, and that's it. They're not dangerous, as I said, with proper self-administration. The problem is most people are too lazy to study anything they put in themselves.

Why am I pro-steroids? Because I actually know what I am talking about from studying, and knowing a plethora of people with anecdotal experience on the subject. Can you say the same? It isn't a slow suicide, but thanks anyways. I suggest you start studying.

Steroids also tend to lead to all sorts of other issues, guys get too big and have weight related problems, guys get all sorts of other injuries because they're too big (we call this the David Boston effect or years ago the Jeff Bregel effect). Guys on steroids have issues with blood pressure, cholesterol. Then there's the very well scientifically documented issue of steroids and depression, people on steroids have issues with roid rage, but when they get off steroids, depression is a very well known side effect which is why suicide is such a risk.

I'm not saying under supervision with lots of medical knowledge steroids can't be safe. I'm merely speaking to why I think it's so dangerous to make it accepted because of kids, 5% of highschool athletes(boys) now confess to having tried steroids. These guys generally aren't doing it under doctors supervision. --- Russ Smith

Thank you Russ, I appreciate the intelligent responds. Guys getting too big and having weight related problems, unless you are the top .000001% of BBers this is a non-issue. Anyone 350 lbs is 99% of the time going to be above 20% body fat. This is a weight-related issue that steroids actually doesn't effect. In fact, one of the biggest pro BBers (Jay Cutler) has fantastic health from the amount of cardio he does, and he is 5'9'', 285 lbs and relatively lean most of the time. Defensive linemen/offensive linemen have weight issues because their body fat is out of hand. That is a dietetics concern.

The one key point you have is on cholesterol. Yes, that is the #1 issue that can be a clear problem with steroids. If you have pre-existing hypertension and high cholesterol it is heavily advised against.

I agree with you absolutely on the subject of kids shouldn't be taking them.

cards 24-7-365 very good post.

It's cheating, I wouldn't ever urge anyone I cared about to do it but it's a free country so go for it.

Just do us all a favor and don't show up on a talk show later saying I had no idea it would do this to me, I studied it I thought but they didn't tell me this or that and blame everyone under the sun. Man up and take whatever happens.

 

[BodybuildingCardsFan]

It's cheating, I wouldn't ever urge anyone I cared about to do it but it's a free country so go for it.

Just do us all a favor and don't show up on a talk show later saying I had no idea it would do this to me, I studied it I thought but they didn't tell me this or that and blame everyone under the sun. Man up and take whatever happens.

The people on talk shows are the people that abused them without studying them. You won't have to worry about it.

How else do you think the rumors that creatine kills get started? Uninformed people at work, as always.

As for the cheating part, that issue is more concerned with what you want to make a level playing field. A good example of a sport with a split in values is powerlifting (raw/gear debates). It didn't become "cheating" until they were illegalized in '91. Prior to that steroids had been around for a very long time (since the '30s).

 

[Southpaw]

The people on talk shows are the people that abused them without studying them. You won't have to worry about it.

How else do you think the rumors that creatine kills get started? Uninformed people at work, as always.

As for the cheating part, that issue is more concerned with what you want to make a level playing field. A good example of a sport with a split in values is powerlifting (raw/gear debates). It didn't become "cheating" until they were illegalized in '91. Prior to that steroids had been around for a very long time (since the '30s).

Not a whole bunch of people care if you "study and use steroids or supplements". You are promoting their use and that serves nothing but a self interest. The microcosm you live in is for you alone. EOD. I am not even trying to talk you out of it.

 

[CardLogic]

As for the cheating part, that issue is more concerned with what you want to make a level playing field. A good example of a sport with a split in values is powerlifting (raw/gear debates). It didn't become "cheating" until they were illegalized in '91. Prior to that steroids had been around for a very long time (since the '30s).

So you would advocate that everyone in sports take steroids and that makes it all equal...

Even accepting that premise, doesn't that greatly increase the potential for misuse and/or abuse. If everyone in sports took steroids, not everyone would be studying and understanding their usage as well as you claim to do. With 100% of athletes taking steroids the incidence of medical catastrophes would escalate to unacceptable numbers.

Additionaly at what age does steroid usage become acceptable? I have heard of usage in children as young as 11-12 years old. If it is legal and acceptable for adults in sports to use steroids usage by teens and younger would increase proportionately.

Most of us just don't accept the "chemistry for better living" premise! But go ahead man, shove that needle in... because for you it's all good!

 

[cards 24-7-365]

Additionaly at what age does steroid usage become acceptable? I have heard of usage in children as young as 11-12 years old. If it is legal and acceptable for adults in sports to use steroids usage by teens and younger would increase proportionately.

Most of us just don't accept the "chemistry for better living" premise! But go ahead man, shove that needle in... because for you it's all good!

Again, I am not speaking for BBCardFan, but I would say that safe, educated steroid use under the supervision of a physician would be safe for those that wanted to improve their physique. Much in the same way going and getting a "tummy tuck" performed by a physician is legal and considered "safe". Are there risks in both examples - absolutely, but millions assume the risks of cosmetic surgery without society and congress getting all fired up over it.

For the record, I feel that steroids, stimulants and other performance enhancing drugs should be illegal and against the rules in organized sports. But I am ashamed at the irresponsible and lazy journalism that occurs in reporting that "steroids kill people". If reporters did research, they would find out that are many legal things that people take everyday that kill more people than steroids. Among these everyday items are multi-vitamins, over the counter cold medication, aspirin and tylenol - all things that we consider "safe".

I think the main point of what BBCardFan is saying is do the research about steroids (in peer reviewed medical journals) before claiming that steroid abuse is eroding our society.

 

[BodybuildingCardsFan]

Again, I am not speaking for BBCardFan, but I would say that safe, educated steroid use under the supervision of a physician would be safe for those that wanted to improve their physique. Much in the same way going and getting a "tummy tuck" performed by a physician is legal and considered "safe". Are there risks in both examples - absolutely, but millions assume the risks of cosmetic surgery without society and congress getting all fired up over it.

For the record, I feel that steroids, stimulants and other performance enhancing drugs should be illegal and against the rules in organized sports. But I am ashamed at the irresponsible and lazy journalism that occurs in reporting that "steroids kill people". If reporters did research, they would find out that are many legal things that people take everyday that kill more people than steroids. Among these everyday items are multi-vitamins, over the counter cold medication, aspirin and tylenol - all things that we consider "safe".

I think the main point of what BBCardFan is saying is do the research about steroids (in peer reviewed medical journals) before claiming that steroid abuse is eroding our society.

This post is a good summary on the issue.

Let the sporting organization decide if they want them banned or not, it isn't a big deal to me. If it is banned in the organization fine, if not, just as fine.

Wallyburger, I implore you to go study the issue at hand. Your rantings aren't substantiated by anything, you're just thrashing about.

CardsLogic, apparently you didn't read anything I wrote. I never said I advocated teen use. The line is ~24 years old (when the endocrine system is finished developing without question). If the sporting organization is banning them, they stay banned. No big deal. If the person has studied them, they should darn well be able to take them.

Also, quit with the needle comments, it is doing nothing but making you look ignorant. Some steroids aren't even done by injecting (eg: dinabol).

Go study before speaking on the subject. It'd do you a world of good.

 

[Southpaw]

Wallyburger, I implore you to go study the issue at hand. Your rantings aren't substantiated by anything, you're just thrashing about.

You sir, are promoting an illegal substance. Why you choose to do so is beyond me. No one besides you is ranting. If you choose to worship your physique, that is your life. I don't have to. I am 6' 4" 220 pounds , in damned good shape, and one helluva lot older than you. Never took a lab supplement in my life. So, I guess I don't have your dilemma or hang up. Stick your needles where you want.
Dispose of them properly.

 

[CardLogic]

CardsLogic, apparently you didn't read anything I wrote. I never said I advocated teen use. The line is ~24 years old (when the endocrine system is finished developing without question). If the sporting organization is banning them, they stay banned. No big deal. If the person has studied them, they should darn well be able to take them.

Also, quit with the needle comments, it is doing nothing but making you look ignorant. Some steroids aren't even done by injecting (eg: dinabol).

Go study before speaking on the subject. It'd do you a world of good.

I read everything you wrote and understand your perspective. I simply don't agree with you. What you fail to address is the issue that if steroids were to be made legal and acceptable for adults the incidence of usage by minors would increase proportionately and dramatically. That scenario is just not acceptable.

Of course, the needle comment was just a wisecrack! But needle, ingestion, or topical cream it doesn't make steroid use any more acceptable.

You may have more in-depth knowledge of steroid use than anyone else in the discussion, but you are also the guy putting yourself and others at risk. Just because you have a layman's knowledge of some substances doesn't mean your not wearing blinders to the overall issues associated with their usage.

Again, I am not critizing you personally for using steroids, that's a choice you'll live with. But I am critizing you for advocating the use of steroids.