Our franchise QB

[AZCB34]

This is the only right argument. We have to find out if Kyler is Pocket Jay Cutler.

Problem is it’s hard to see a legit HC coming here to work for Keim, and hard to imagine Keim getting out of the way for a legit HC.

There are plenty of guys who would be willing to work with Keim if it meant getting one of the free NFL HC jobs this world offers. And some of those guys would be legit candidates.

I do think the cardinals are at the point where they need to understand who the tall problem is and the only way to do so is to have a new voice

 

[kerouac9]

There are plenty of guys who would be willing to work with Keim if it meant getting one of the free NFL HC jobs this world offers. And some of those guys would be legit candidates.

I do think the cardinals are at the point where they need to understand who the tall problem is and the only way to do so is to have a new voice

People always say this but the last two HCs we ended up with were Kliff Kingsbury and Steve Wilks.

I'm talking about legit, established, A-rated head coaches. I think people are fooling themselves if they think Sean Payton is going to come here to work for Keim. Maybe you could get Eric Bienemy, but he said no to an interview last cycle.

 

[AZCB34]

People always say this but the last two HCs we ended up with were Kliff Kingsbury and Steve Wilks.

I'm talking about legit, established, A-rated head coaches. I think people are fooling themselves if they think Sean Payton is going to come here to work for Keim. Maybe you could get Eric Bienemy, but he said no to an interview last cycle.

During the last cycle for Bienemy, who was the starting QB on the roster?

 

[kerouac9]

During the last cycle for Bienemy, who was the starting QB on the roster?

We had the number 1 pick. Are you being serious right now?

 

[BritCard]

People always say this but the last two HCs we ended up with were Kliff Kingsbury and Steve Wilks.

I'm talking about legit, established, A-rated head coaches. I think people are fooling themselves if they think Sean Payton is going to come here to work for Keim. Maybe you could get Eric Bienemy, but he said no to an interview last cycle.

The chance of the next HC being worse than Kliff if we fired him now (or after this season) and about 90%.

Its either a long shot like Kliff or a retread like Jim Caldwell (I actually like Caldwell).

If Kliff goes then Keim goes so it's not that. It's simply that the Cardinals are not a big franchise that attracts top candidates.

 

[AZCB34]

We had the number 1 pick. Are you being serious right now?

Yeah, I kind of am since Kliff was hired before Kyler declared he would enter the draft. I understand what you are saying though

 

[Russ Smith]

I don't have stats for 2TE sets so I can't really speak to that. I'd love to see them. It's possible that that's more of a small-sample-size thing.

Most teams run primarily out of 3WR sets so I don't know what to tell you.

That most teams don't have a UDFA as their 3rd WR. Or the ghost of AJ Green.

 

[football karma]

People always say this but the last two HCs we ended up with were Kliff Kingsbury and Steve Wilks.

I'm talking about legit, established, A-rated head coaches. I think people are fooling themselves if they think Sean Payton is going to come here to work for Keim. Maybe you could get Eric Bienemy, but he said no to an interview last cycle.

i do find it interesting that when Andy Reid was available, Darren Urban confirmed the Cardinals wanted him

but Andy Reid also brought along his own personnel guy to KC.

It stands to reason that was one of his requirements.

So not sure how badly Mike B wanted him. ("oh by the way Mike -- that Steve Keim guy helping you with the search? he has to go").

 

[Chopper0080]

Yeah, I kind of am since Kliff was hired before Kyler declared he would enter the draft. I understand what you are saying though

He is saying that under Keim, we hired Bruce Arians, who was the last HC hired and had been passed over multiple times.. Wilks, never been NFL HC and had only been a coordinator one season. Kingsbury, never been NFL HC or coach in general.

The proof is there. High quality candidates, over our past three hires, have not been interested in working in AZ.

Sullen, difficult and highly paid Kyler Murry isn't changing that.

 

[Finito]

I mean, James Conner was practically a vet min FA and did his best in AZ. Kenyan Drake was the same. Chase Edmonds. Kirk.Eno has developed. Greg Dortch has played the best football of his career here however short the time frame.

There is valid criticism for Kliff, not sure this is it.

Oh well hey guess we’re all good with Kliff going forward given some of these responses lol

 

[Finito]

Come on man.

He's playing the WORST football of his career in year 4 and the org has failed him? How as it failed him more than than last years 11-6 team?

Kyler is awful all on his own. People need to stop trying to find outside reasons for Kyler being garbage and just accept he's independently garbage. His mechanics are crap. His understanding of defenses is crap. His progressions don't exist. His decision making his crap. His body language and leadership is crap. His ownership and responsibility are crap.

If I'm making any change to this team it's benching Kyler.

Sounds logical

 

[AZCB34]

He is saying that under Keim, we hired Bruce Arians, who was the last HC hired and had been passed over multiple times.. Wilks, never been NFL HC and had only been a coordinator one season. Kingsbury, never been NFL HC or coach in general.

The proof is there. High quality candidates, over our past three hires, have not been interested in working in AZ.

Sullen, difficult and highly paid Kyler Murry isn't changing that.

Fair enough

 

[kerouac9]

The chance of the next HC being worse than Kliff if we fired him now (or after this season) and about 90%.

Its either a long shot like Kliff or a retread like Jim Caldwell (I actually like Caldwell).

If Kliff goes then Keim goes so it's not that. It's simply that the Cardinals are not a big franchise that attracts top candidates.

90%? That seems aggressive. You don't think that Vance Joesph as HC wouldn't be as good or better than Kliff? That's a wild take, and I'd love to hear you support it.

I like Kliff, but this is a bad situation for him and it has to change. I think that Jim Caldwell would provide some leadership and responsibility and maybe some credibility that would be way better than whatever we're getting from Kliff right now.

If Kliff gets fired we can start making long and short lists of candidates. I'm not ready to do that yet.

That most teams don't have a UDFA as their 3rd WR. Or the ghost of AJ Green.

C'mon. There are tons of teams like that. The 3rd WR on this team is like our 4th or 5th passing option, and you can be fine with that. It's not like McBride has shown literally anything as an NFL receiver.

He is saying that under Keim, we hired Bruce Arians, who was the last HC hired and had been passed over multiple times.. Wilks, never been NFL HC and had only been a coordinator one season. Kingsbury, never been NFL HC or coach in general.

The proof is there. High quality candidates, over our past three hires, have not been interested in working in AZ.

Sullen, difficult and highly paid Kyler Murry isn't changing that.

You'd expect a quality HC candidate to want to have a sit-down with Kyler before taking an offer. I wonder if Kyler would thing that his approval was being solicited in such a meeting.

 

[HomerPimpson]

You'd expect a quality HC candidate to want to have a sit-down with Kyler before taking an offer. I wonder if Kyler would thing that his approval was being solicited in such a meeting.

Absolutely hilarious.

 

[BritCard]

90%? That seems aggressive. You don't think that Vance Joesph as HC wouldn't be as good or better than Kliff? That's a wild take, and I'd love to hear you support it.

I like Kliff, but this is a bad situation for him and it has to change. I think that Jim Caldwell would provide some leadership and responsibility and maybe some credibility that would be way better than whatever we're getting from Kliff right now.

If Kliff gets fired we can start making long and short lists of candidates. I'm not ready to do that yet.



C'mon. There are tons of teams like that. The 3rd WR on this team is like our 4th or 5th passing option, and you can be fine with that. It's not like McBride has shown literally anything as an NFL receiver.



You'd expect a quality HC candidate to want to have a sit-down with Kyler before taking an offer. I wonder if Kyler would thing that his approval was being solicited in such a meeting.

Well for Vance we almost certainly get worse. Putting his HC record aside his issue as a HC was that he couldn't attract a competent OC. I don't see how the offense gets better and that's the problem.

The absolute best he could draw from his connections is Klint Kubiak.

As for anyone else. Well the people we interviewed in 2018 and 2019 were hardly a who's who of top tier coaching.

The best candidate from both years was Adam Gase...

There is one guy available now who I think is a good candidate and that's Brian Flores. But you have the same OC issues.

 

[wagonmound464]

I always felt that Murray would not be a great NFL QB,,,and subject to injury due to his size.
I would have taken Josh Allen #1, but Allen played college at a small school not with the hype
of Oklahoma with the media. Look now...who is better? A QB at 6'5, 240 who will always put
his head down, run, and take the hit. Allen is a winner!

I wonder why we are paying Murray $2.8 M per game over 5 years? Running backs, WRs, tight ends
might be thinking WTF when they are being paid so much le$$... Just a thought.

 

[Shane]

I always felt that Murray would not be a great NFL QB,,,and subject to injury due to his size.
I would have taken Josh Allen #1, but Allen played college at a small school not with the hype
of Oklahoma with the media. Look now...who is better? A QB at 6'5, 240 who will always put
his head down, run, and take the hit. Allen is a winner!

I wonder why we are paying Murray $2.8 M per game over 5 years? Running backs, WRs, tight ends
might be thinking WTF when they are being paid so much le$$... Just a thought.

Absolutely Josh Allen over Kyler all day everyday…. There’s just one problem he wasn’t available when we had the number one pick…

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

The chance of the next HC being worse than Kliff if we fired him now (or after this season) and about 90%.

Good lord man, you are aware that Kliff is widely viewed as a laughingstock in American football right? Booted out of college football and mocked and ridiculed around the NFL. You odds are totally backwards, it would be nearly impossible to hire a worse coach than Kliff.

He’ll be at best a mid-tier college program offensive coordinator when the Cardinals fire him. Will likely end up on TV vs living in Pullman recruiting HS kids.

 

[kerouac9]

Well for Vance we almost certainly get worse. Putting his HC record aside his issue as a HC was that he couldn't attract a competent OC. I don't see how the offense gets better and that's the problem.

The absolute best he could draw from his connections is Klint Kubiak.

As for anyone else. Well the people we interviewed in 2018 and 2019 were hardly a who's who of top tier coaching.

The best candidate from both years was Adam Gase...

There is one guy available now who I think is a good candidate and that's Brian Flores. But you have the same OC issues.

With Vance as an interim we're probably about the same. I don't think that Kliff is locked alone in a lab drawing up the game plan. That's a collaborative effort. Maybe the underlings have good ideas that are being ignored.

Would this offense be worse than three points against the 32nd-ranked defense in the NFL if, like Bill Musgrave was the OC? Hard to say.

I don't think the Cards would make a permanent move until this offseason, anyway. The Cards talked with Brian Flores twice before hiring Wilks. I dunno. It's just really hard to look around the NFL landscape and not think that we could tempt Kellen Moore or Mike LaFleur or Shane Steichen with a head coaching position and be better off than we are with Kliff right now.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

Murray QB rating by season:

2019 = 87.4 (offensive Rookie of the Year)
2020 = 94.3 (selected for pro bowl)
2021 = 100.6 (selected for pro bowl)
2022 = 81.8?

2019 we had a bad WR room and O line.

2020 DHop and Hudson arrive and magically Kyler gets better. Holds up pretty good through 12 games of 2021.

Is 2022 like 2019 in terms of our WR room and O line? Maybe?

K1 was ass yesterday, but he didn't lose all his talent in the offseason. And if he was so lazy, how did he have any success in in 2020 and 2021?

Seriously, which is more plausible? That the WR room and the o-line are dragging down the offense like they did in 2019? Or that Murray just suddenly stopped preparing for games like he apparently did in 2020 and 2021?

You guys can quit on K1 if you want to.. ( @Krangodnzr I'm looking at you. J/K!! ) But if you don't mind, I think I'll wait until we can upgrade from G-C-G-RT combo of Garcia/Harlow/Hernandez/Beechum before I do. Thanks!

 

[MadCardDisease]

Not looking good. Call of Duty releases in less than two weeks. Terrible timing for the Cardinals.

 

[Stout]

Murray QB rating by season:

2019 = 87.4 (offensive Rookie of the Year)
2020 = 94.3 (selected for pro bowl)
2021 = 100.6 (selected for pro bowl)
2022 = 81.8?

2019 we had a bad WR room and O line.

2020 DHop and Hudson arrive and magically Kyler gets better. Holds up pretty good through 12 games of 2021.

Is 2022 like 2019 in terms of our WR room and O line? Maybe?

K1 was ass yesterday, but he didn't lose all his talent in the offseason. And if he was so lazy, how did he have any success in in 2020 and 2021?

Seriously, which is more plausible? That the WR room and the o-line are dragging down the offense like they did in 2019? Or that Murray just suddenly stopped preparing for games like he apparently did in 2020 and 2021?

You guys can quit on K1 if you want to.. ( @Krangodnzr I'm looking at you. J/K!! ) But if you don't mind, I think I'll wait until we can upgrade from G-C-G-RT combo of Garcia/Harlow/Hernandez/Beechum before I do. Thanks!

Eh, to me it means he has to have a lot of talent around him to be successful, rather than making the team around him better. Sure feels like he just likes to freestyle and wing it without focusing on the fundamentals of the game (footwork, timing, etc) like he's done at every level before, because that's brought him success. That will never help elevate the team around him. If all we get is a QB that can only be good with a top-notch offense of talent around him, it's wasted money.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

Eh, to me it means he has to have a lot of talent around him to be successful, rather than making the team around him better. Sure feels like he just likes to freestyle and wing it without focusing on the fundamentals of the game (footwork, timing, etc) like he's done at every level before, because that's brought him success. That will never help elevate the team around him. If all we get is a QB that can only be good with a top-notch offense of talent around him, it's wasted money.

Not completely unfair Stout. How much you have to put around him is the question.

It makes me think of Stafford. All those years in DET, he never "elevated the players around him". But you put him on a loaded Rams team, and boom, he wins a superbowl.

You can't put K1 out there with ten nobodys. You need to have more than one above average offensive lineman and one viable WR. RB could use an upgrade too!

 

[Shane]

Eh, to me it means he has to have a lot of talent around him to be successful, rather than making the team around him better. Sure feels like he just likes to freestyle and wing it without focusing on the fundamentals of the game (footwork, timing, etc) like he's done at every level before, because that's brought him success. That will never help elevate the team around him. If all we get is a QB that can only be good with a top-notch offense of talent around him, it's wasted money.

Yessss

 

[Crimson Warrior]

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

how could you @Shane ?