kerouac9
Klowned by Keim
Me, too. But he has some production to give. He’s like 17th in DVOA and Murray is 33rd.
he has much more experience than Murray, though.
Our window starts next year
- Thread starter Rohinaz
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he has much more experience than Murray, though.
There were some years the discussion started in August.
Can Kliff lead a NFL team is the question?
GatorAZ
feed hopkins
I’d say the biggest difference would be instead of Murray being rattled by the pass rush, the pass rush would be rattled by Minshew.
Outerlimits
Veteran
I'm going to side with you on this. I admit I'm pretty negative about the team right now but I see glimpses of hope with both Kliff and Kyler.
The issue is the team is devoid of talent. Would the team have a top 10 offense with better talent? Hard to say, but I wouldn't rule it out.
CardsSunsDbacks
Not So Skeptical
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Maybe, but it's also possible that our receivers and line aren't as good as his in Jaxonville and thus with us he might be much more rattled because of that. Ultimately none of us can possibly know the answer to this because the only way to know would be to actually see it in action.
Krangodnzr
Captain of Team Conner
5th year senior, yeah.
I liked Minshew coming out but Leachs offense is really hard to evaluate QBs coming out of it.
Remember when Mitch was salivating over Graham Harrell? Luke Falk? Most of the QBs coming out of Leach's system lack real arm talent. I'm not even certain that Minshew has any, but he does seem to really get the mental side of quarterbacking.
Chopper0080
2021 - Prove It
That is why it is silly to discredit the statement that Minshew is playing better than Murray right now. The facts that we have show that he is, and the rest is impossible speculation.
kerouac9
Klowned by Keim
That's what's so frustrating about arguing with Murray cultists. The conversation is often: Opinion backed with fact (A), (B) and (C), followed by unprovable conjecture backed with positive vibes or something.
There is nothing wrong with rooting for your QB. Do you really feel in your heart of hearts that Minshew is going to have a better pro career than Murray?
kerouac9
Klowned by Keim
I didn’t say that. I said that he was outplaying Murray right now.
I think there’s too much variance on Murray to say one way or the other, because he’s so young and inexperienced, which was a reason I was wary of drafting him in the first place.
But to say that right now Murray is the best rookie QB is plainly false. He’s playing third-best of the rookie QBs.
Do you think Keim made a mistake by drafting him at 1?
kerouac9
Klowned by Keim
Of course.
Krangodnzr
Captain of Team Conner
I don't know. Daniel Jones has thrown more picks in less throws and has a better offensive line in front of him.
It's also no wonder that both Jones and Mishew are stepping in and playing well, both had a lot of starts in college.
I think you are going to very wrong on Murray long term and I haven't seen anything so far to make me believe otherwise. He's made some damn good throws, some very nifty runs, but also a ton of mistakes. He has so far, shown more potential than any other rookie QB I've seen on the Cardinals since I've been watching this team.
It's just that he has, what? 14 or 15 starts in college.
Why do I think he will be successful? Talent. Work ethic.
Reddog
ASFN Lifer
You don't get the number 1 pick if you have all the surrounding pieces. Obviously this was going to be a spent year. Not a waste if Murray figures out how to play in the NFL.
Chopper0080
2021 - Prove It
I think it is easy to say, at this moment in time, that Kyler Murray was not the best player in this draft.
I also think it is way too early to say Kyler Murray won't end up being the best player in this draft.
What I know is that he is more of a "draft and develop" player than most QBs who go in the top 15 are. That isn't to say that every QB doesn't have to grow and develop, but it is to say that he looks to be less pro ready than Daniel Jones and Gardner Minshew.
I will say that he looks miles better than Dwayne Haskins.
I can't say that in three years we won't in the same situation as the Bears are with Mitchell Trubisky.
Andrew Luck was the last QB I had thought was a slam dunk, #1 pick. He won 11 games his rookie year. Murray does not seem to be in that class.
Anybody who makes any type judgement on this draft class at all is crazy. Let's talk again in 2021, or at the end of 2020 at earliest. KM didn't start many college games and is still so young. He has an accurate arm and can throw a beautful rainbow or put it on a rope. He has elite wiggle and athleticism. I'm absolutely sure he will become worthy of the selection if we focus on building OL and getting him weapons.
Chopper0080
2021 - Prove It
Colts and Redskins went to the playoffs in Luck and RGIIIs rookie years.
The Bortles Jags won 3 games.
Jameis Bucs won 6.
Mariota's Titans won 3.
Goff Rams won 4.
Wentz's Eagles won 7.
Trubisky Bears won 5.
Baker won 7.
Darnold won 4.
There are a lot of question marks for all the top 5 QBs who won less than 7 games in their rookie year. The concept of a QB figuring it out in the NFL may not be a reality in the modern NFL. It might be that those who get it right away, become the the top level QBs and those who don't, are always leaving people wanting more.
Chopper0080
2021 - Prove It
He is the same age as Rosen.
Chopper0080
2021 - Prove It
Agreed. It is becoming apparent that Kyler Murray is not going to elevate the play of average players around him anytime soon. He is going to need to be treated like a late first or mid-round QB who requires a top NFL roster to be competitive.
kerouac9
Klowned by Keim
There's a range of reality between being one of the 5 worst teams in the NFL and competing for the playoffs. We have no wins!
The 49ers had the #2 pick in the draft and they have 4 wins. The Oakland Raiders had the #4 pick in the draft and have 2 wins. The Bucs have 2 wins.
We're keeping company with the Jets. I'm not happy about that.
ARZCardinals
ASFN Lifer
Cardinals have more holes than a spaghetti strainer
plugging 1 or 2 holes isn't going to cut it at all
The Rams became competitive when they were able to trade for 2 all pro CB's, Suh at DT, Whitworth at LT and get the coaching staff in place.
The Cardinals need Keim to pull off some trades...Keim MUST begin looking at moving draft picks and/or players to get better players at positions of need (OL/D LINE) whom are proven, but don't want to be on their teams anymore.
Ramsey and Trent Williams are two that come to mind...now there may be more, but Keim needs to begin working the phones....or he's gonna be unemployed
IF the Cardinals were to have PP and Ramsey at CB then get 2 solid DT ...with Jordan Hicks at LB, Baker at S....the defense will be damn good
On O if the Cardinals can COMPLETELY revamp the O line - and TE they'll have a shot...so how
start by trading for Trent Williams and move DJ for another piece of the puzzle...if not just for Trent. They need to move on from Pugh (who clearly is done) and for god's sake start caring about the Center position....AQ is horrible other than standing in the middle he can't pass block and he can't run block. They should have gone after Pouncy when he was available....but it's clear as day Keim doesn't care about the C position.
Whatever Keim's plan is....it hasn't worked...isn't working ...and face it WON'T WORK
plugging 1 or 2 holes isn't going to cut it at all
The Rams became competitive when they were able to trade for 2 all pro CB's, Suh at DT, Whitworth at LT and get the coaching staff in place.
The Cardinals need Keim to pull off some trades...Keim MUST begin looking at moving draft picks and/or players to get better players at positions of need (OL/D LINE) whom are proven, but don't want to be on their teams anymore.
Ramsey and Trent Williams are two that come to mind...now there may be more, but Keim needs to begin working the phones....or he's gonna be unemployed
IF the Cardinals were to have PP and Ramsey at CB then get 2 solid DT ...with Jordan Hicks at LB, Baker at S....the defense will be damn good
On O if the Cardinals can COMPLETELY revamp the O line - and TE they'll have a shot...so how
start by trading for Trent Williams and move DJ for another piece of the puzzle...if not just for Trent. They need to move on from Pugh (who clearly is done) and for god's sake start caring about the Center position....AQ is horrible other than standing in the middle he can't pass block and he can't run block. They should have gone after Pouncy when he was available....but it's clear as day Keim doesn't care about the C position.
Whatever Keim's plan is....it hasn't worked...isn't working ...and face it WON'T WORK
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Chopper0080
2021 - Prove It
So if we acquire top end NFL talent then Murray can be successful? That sounds like Dak Prescott, Trent Dilfer, 3rd round Russell Wilson, Alex Smith, Andy Dalton, Derek Carr and Joe Flacco.
In fact, at Kyler Murray's age, Alex Smith posted a 7-9 record with a 16-16 TD/INT ratio. Alex was a player whose college coach stated needed more reps to be NFL ready and was a develop player early in his career.
