Pacers @ Suns Thursday game thread 12-19-2024

[GatorAZ]

I think coaching is most of the issue. Plus, the Suns are in desperate help at the 4/5. They don't have any athletes there.

The Suns have fallen off a cliff defensively from last season. You can use the eye test or the metrics.

 

[BirdGangThing]

it's like the suns and cards are linked at times

 

[BirdGangThing]

Bud is cooked. The Suns were much better under Vogel.

now we're just talking crazy

 

[GatorAZ]

now we're just talking crazy

Wake up.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I think coaching is most of the issue. Plus, the Suns are in desperate help at the 4/5. They don't have any athletes there.

If coaching is most of the problem, I'd wager it's because the players aren't listening to him. Bud knows how to coach and let's face it, we've gone through a lot of coaches in a short amount of time - and that's what bad organizations do.

 

[NashDishesDimes]

At this point its not coaching. If youve had two championship winning coaches and it still looks like this…coaching easy scapegoat because other pieces harder to change and we dont want to admit this team is just a** together.

 

[Mainstreet]

If coaching is most of the problem, I'd wager it's because the players aren't listening to him. Bud knows how to coach and let's face it, we've gone through a lot of coaches in a short amount of time - and that's what bad organizations do.

I wouldn't call the Suns a bad organization.

Their personnel moves have puzzled me at times, specifically the moves made by the GM.

 

[82CardsGrad]

This team is brutal. The only reliable player on offense and defense is KD… otherwise, Book is someone I don’t recognize anymore. Beal stole a ton of $$. Nurk is flat out laughable and one the most unwatchable players I have ever been forced to watch… literally one of my least favorite Suns players - ever!
Jones is limited and inconsistent. Allen is a non-factor anytime and every time he’s on the court. O’Neale is good and serviceable…but only off the bench.
Dunn has a tunn to learn… who knows if he will develop into a productive asset.
I mean, seriously… this team is putrid in so many ways.

 

[Mainstreet]

Final:

Pacers 120 - Suns 111

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Pacers 120-111 Suns (Dec 19, 2024) Box Score - ESPN

Box score for the Indiana Pacers vs. Phoenix Suns NBA game from December 19, 2024 on ESPN. Includes all points, rebounds and steals stats.

www.espn.com

 

[Mainstreet]

Obi Toppin was a steal by the Pacers.

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[GatorAZ]

At this point its not coaching. If youve had two championship winning coaches and it still looks like this…coaching easy scapegoat because other pieces harder to change and we dont want to admit this team is just a** together.

The Vogel hate last year compared to Bud getting no criticism is fascinating though whether it’s coaching or not.

 

[Superbone]

Ishbia has got to be pissed paying all this money for this team only to get out-worked and out-hustled every night.

 

[Mainstreet]

Ishbia has got to be pissed paying all this money for this team only to get out-worked and out-hustled every night.

I hope so.

 

[AzStevenCal]

The Vogel hate last year compared to Bud getting no criticism is fascinating though whether it’s coaching or not.

I think it has to do with expectations. More of us had expectations going into last season and when we failed to come close to them, we blamed Vogel. Now after a short hook for yet another head coach, we find ourselves still looking like a mediocre collection of individuals. So at this point, it's tough to point fingers anywhere else then on the organization as a whole, especially including the players.

 

[Hoop Head]

End of 3rd quarter:

Pacers 97 - Suns 83

I shutoff before it got that out of hand, maybe with 3-4 minutes to go. Suns were within 10 though. Glad I saved myself some grief.

The Suns won't win a damn thing until they guard the perimeter.

Anyone who discounts the Pacers because of their record is foolish. They had a shaky start with lots of injuries to their bigs. Unlike us, they have bigs returning now to help them. I won't be surprised if they have a better record than the Suns at year end.

 

[Mainstreet]

I shutoff before it got that out of hand, maybe with 3-4 minutes to go. Suns were within 10 though. Glad I saved myself some grief.

The Suns won't win a damn thing until they guard the perimeter.

Anyone who discounts the Pacers because of their record is foolish. They had a shaky start with lots of injuries to their bigs. Unlike us, they have bigs returning now to help them. I won't be surprised if they have a better record than the Suns at year end.

On paper, the Pacers have a good team, so the loss doesn't bother me as much as it might others who are not familiar with their roster.

However, the Suns poor defense and turnovers are inexcusable.

 

[Cheesebeef]

This team is brutal. The only reliable player on offense and defense is KD… otherwise, Book is someone I don’t recognize anymore. Beal stole a ton of $$. Nurk is flat out laughable and one the most unwatchable players I have ever been forced to watch… literally one of my least favorite Suns players - ever!
Jones is limited and inconsistent. Allen is a non-factor anytime and every time he’s on the court. O’Neale is good and serviceable…but only off the bench.
Dunn has a tunn to learn… who knows if he will develop into a productive asset.
I mean, seriously… this team is putrid in so many ways.

I see what you did there with Dunn and Tunn.

 

[Hoop Head]

I wouldn't call the Suns a bad organization.

Their personnel moves have puzzled me at times, specifically the moves made by the GM.

The Suns aren't bad like the Wizards but they have a lot of work to do. The jury is still out whether this is a good organization in terms of building a winning team under Ishbia's tenure but it doesn't look good. Sarver isn't to blame for handing off a stripped team either, Ishbia owns where the Suns are 100%. The goodwill is running out and fans will start calling for results. Ishbia better hope he can still attract some decent signings at that point because I have a feeling this year will be the last any player takes a chance on the Suns being a contender so they come here to win.

 

[Mainstreet]

The Suns aren't bad like the Wizards but they have a lot of work to do. The jury is still out whether this is a good organization in terms of building a winning team under Ishbia's tenure but it doesn't look good. Sarver isn't to blame for handing off a stripped team either, Ishbia owns where the Suns are 100%. The goodwill is running out and fans will start calling for results. Ishbia better hope he can still attract some decent signings at that point because I have a feeling this year will be the last any player takes a chance on the Suns being a contender so they come here to win.

We agree, Robert Sarver didn't hand over a stripped franchise to Mat Ishbia. He did that quite nicely by himself along with James Jones.

The Suns were in prime position to keep building on a young, maturing team but decided to go for the gold at the end of the rainbow.

The Suns do need to attract free agents. This is one of the reasons I didn't want to chance Collin Gillespie slipping away when Tyus Jones likely goes elsewhere next season.

 

[Mainstreet]

I want to add, I think Mat Ishbia wants to run a first class organization. Unfortunately, I think he has the wrong GM to do it.

 

[Mainstreet]

Devin Booker hasn't missed a game all season, so I hope no one wants to put this on him if he misses time.

IMO, he has been playing hurt for a while. I've mentioned this before.

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[Phrazbit]

Really don’t understand the idea of doubling down on the admittedly awful trade we made, folks.

Discount my opinion however
you want for dating to admit I was wrong, but this team ain’t winning squat and neither is either of it’s two “best” players as the head of any snake in the NBA.

I don’t debate that is a sunk cost, as you know, I think it was a sunk cost the moment the trade happened. But I don’t think the value we can send out will make any difference in six or seven years when this team might finally be able to compete again.

If the result of a fire sale is winning 10 to 15 games a year for the next five years and our return is a few piddly late draft picks, then I don’t care, I’d rather be some borderline play in team that prays to get lucky than deal with being the worst team in the NBA and seeing the reward of all that losing going to whoever controls our pick that year.

Among the many reasons I hated that trade is because we are locked into this disaster. I don’t see a way out that has any real benefit.

 

[Phrazbit]

I want to add, I think Mat Ishbia wants to run a first class organization. Unfortunately, I think he has the wrong GM to do it.

It’s Ishbia‘s fault that we are in the shape we are in. I like a lot of stuff he’s done off the court, but his playing GM has sunk this franchise.

 

[Hoop Head]

I want to add, I think Mat Ishbia wants to run a first class organization. Unfortunately, I think he has the wrong GM to do it.

I hope he's smart enough to see Jones for who he is at this point. He's given Jones enough leeway to do his job so there's no excuses left. Injuries only can be used once, IMO. Writing off more than one season due to injuries shows a miscalculation of the players by management. Coaching isn't an excuse as we've had 2 title winning coaches and 1 highly touted former Coach of the Year who led the team to a franchise record in wins and was responsible for 1 of 3 trips to the finals. We could go through player accolades as well so it isn't a lack of talent. The problem is the collection of talent doesn't mesh and that's the GM's responsibility.

 

[GatorAZ]

I think it has to do with expectations. More of us had expectations going into last season and when we failed to come close to them, we blamed Vogel. Now after a short hook for yet another head coach, we find ourselves still looking like a mediocre collection of individuals. So at this point, it's tough to point fingers anywhere else then on the organization as a whole, especially including the players.

Teams typically copy the attitude of their best player. We are the Brooklyn Nets from 3-4 years ago. Lots of name brand talent and no results to show for it.