Packers 44 Cardinals 37: Game Notes and Roster Considerations

[Mitch]

Mitch, agree with most, and am guessing on the following:

WR-Long is out. Jones and Doucett will duke it out in Denver. Morey is in.
TE-Becht was on the field for both of Beanie's TD's, so I think he'll make it. Byrd looks like our best pass catching TE, and think he'll make it, also. I disagree about Spach. I know he had a very bad game, but think he showed enough, last year, to make it. Pope is out.
OL-Think we'll go with nine, with Elton Brown being the ninth man. Hope Gandy wasn't hurt and that the coaches just wanted to see Ross with the first unit.
DE-If Dykes is healthy, I think he'll make it. In any case we keep four DE's. Can Branch or Robinson, be the fourth?
ILB-I have a feeling that Togafau is hurt and that Walker beats him out. Highsmith is a question mark. I think eight LB's in total, both in and out.
CB-Just four (the ones you mentioned).
S-I think five. If we don't get a WW pickup, then I'm guessing Ware over Lewis, who really hasn't shown much. But we need, as you've said, someone to play center field. I did notice that Johnson was in the game early.

Mitch, GREAT to have your take.

Garth:

Excellent points, as always.

1. It would be a surprise if Onrea Jones has a chance...Lance Long was playing with the first team some yesterday. Jones is deep on the dpeth chart for a reason. That said, he certainly has made the most of his limited appearances. Maybe the Cards could get something in a small trade for him?

2. You are probably right about Spach. Whiz trusts him. Pope started last night. Unless they trade him and I think that's possible, albeit improbable, he sticks. They've been throwing to him more this year, which is an indication that they plan to use him more.

3. I think you are right about 9 OL...only I think they'll keep Ross and not E Brown. It maye be tempting though to keep 8. The staters have been very durable.

4. I think their patience is running thin on the likes of Dykes, Highsmith, etc. The roster spots are so competitive, otherwise I think they might have held on to Elliot Vallejo. Don't be surprised if Dykes and Highsmith are two of this week's cuts, for the same reason Vallejo was...it would seem unlikely they'd be claimed while injured...and the Cardinals could re-sign them later on when they are healthy and a roster spot becomes available.

5. I think you are right about Ware over Lewis...didn't see much of Lewis last night, did you? The coaches have always seemed to like Ware, but does he ever really make plays on the defense? Doesn't seem to show up in games...except occasionally on STs.

Great to be sharing analyses and thoughts with you Garth. Thanks.

 

[cardsfanmd]

Donald:

Patrick won't count on the 53 Man Roster until he returns...which helps.

Wonder if Leonard Pope has any trade value. I think he might, and he's heading into a contract year, so maybe the team could get a CB or OLB for him?

First, him being in a contract year would make it harder to trade him.

Second, why would anyone want to trade for him no matter what his contract status was? The only things he has consistently done is get flagged for false starts and get tackled by cornerbacks.

Third, no GM in the history of football would trade a serviceable CB for a far less important position like TE. Nobody has extra 3-4 OLBs (pass rushers) and even if they did, I doubt they would be willing to give them up for a TE. That would be like trading a Quarterback for a fullback. There were 16 OLBs and CBs taken in the first round over the last 2 years but only 2 TEs.

 

[Buckybird]

Jerheme the Juggler.

Luv that, Duck

 

[cardsfanmd]

5. I think you are right about Ware over Lewis...didn't see much of Lewis last night, did you? The coaches have always seemed to like Ware, but does he ever really make plays on the defense? Doesn't seem to show up in games...except occasionally on STs.

I disagree with only this one. Ware has the same problem as all of the safeties on our roster: that he is a SS. I did think he played exceptionally well though last week, primarily against the run and on STs. Lewis is long gone IMO.

 

[cardsfanmd]

Mitch, agree with most, and am guessing on the following:

WR-Long is out. Jones and Doucett will duke it out in Denver. Morey is in.
TE-Becht was on the field for both of Beanie's TD's, so I think he'll make it. Byrd looks like our best pass catching TE, and think he'll make it, also. I disagree about Spach. I know he had a very bad game, but think he showed enough, last year, to make it. Pope is out.
OL-Think we'll go with nine, with Elton Brown being the ninth man. Hope Gandy wasn't hurt and that the coaches just wanted to see Ross with the first unit.
DE-If Dykes is healthy, I think he'll make it. In any case we keep four DE's. Can Branch or Robinson, be the fourth?
ILB-I have a feeling that Togafau is hurt and that Walker beats him out. Highsmith is a question mark. I think eight LB's in total, both in and out.
CB-Just four (the ones you mentioned).
S-I think five. If we don't get a WW pickup, then I'm guessing Ware over Lewis, who really hasn't shown much. But we need, as you've said, someone to play center field. I did notice that Johnson was in the game early.

Mitch, GREAT to have your take.

I am pretty sure Spach was blocking for Beanie's long TD run yesterday.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

The chances of URBAN or DOUCET not being on the final 53: Slim and none - IMO

 

[cardsfanmd]

The chances of URBAN or DOUCET not being on the final 53: Slim and none - IMO

 

[Duckjake]

Too bad. WRs like those two are a dime a dozen. I want some big tough guys.

But you guys are probably correct.

 

[Buckybird]

I am pretty sure Spach was blocking for Beanie's long TD run yesterday.

it was Becht

 

[Dayman]

Dockett was pissed after the game and said some players played hard and others were just there. Could probably name some other players but I think Berry might have been one of them. Berry has just been there this whole offseason. Remember he didnt show up to offseason workouts because as he put it, "I am old and need to rest my body, my recliner now has a butt print in it." I think that tells me all I need to know, he mailed in the offseason hoping to turn it on in the regular season, but as we all know it isnt that easy.

I agree on Berry. Gabe Watson looked faster than Bert last night. Dansby also seemed to give as little effort as possible.

Rackers, however, was definitely at full speed. That onside kick was impressive.

 

[Duckjake]

I agree on Berry. Gabe Watson looked faster than Bert last night. Dansby also seemed to give as little effort as possible.

Rackers, however, was definitely at full speed. That onside kick was impressive.

So was the next one. If you are a Packer fan.

Loved to see Rackers get after that ball on the first one though. The more guys playing tough the better chance we have of 2nd banner.

 

[D-Dogg]

Nope, he doesn't count until he's eligible to play again.

Of course, but for all intents and purposes, a guy will get cut for him. That's what I'm getting at. #53 is temporary.

And I like Mitch's answer...but I don't think Pope has any trade value at all.

 

[Buckybird]

I don't think Pope has any trade value at all.

I wouldn't give you a stick of gum for Pope. He's the ultimate tease, he will give you a big catch then 3 penalties and 2 drops.

 

[Catfish]

Welcome back Mitch-----This was like a breath of fresh air after the abomination that was the first half of last nights game. I'm happy that someone could put it into some form of order and break it down to where it makes sense. I was at a loss to do so, other than seeing our running game come into being. I have been anxiously awaiting Beanie's arrival, and he did not disappoint.

I too believe that any salvation of our secondary will have to come from Toler and R.Johnson. That, unfortunately will take some time. Rolle has been more of a waste of good money and time in my estimation. I don't even know how Francisco remains on this team, let alone being apparently among the favored.

I love the pick-up of Melvin Fowler to back-up Sendlein. He will continue to push Lyle into staying on his game in order to keep his job. I have always believed that any line is only as good as its Center will let it be. These two are solid in my estimation, and are the anchors that we can build around for a long time.

Matt did have a great game-----especially in light of what occurred in the first half. His new training regimen has made him quicker and stronger, (apparently enough so that he no longer seems to be pre-occupied with getting hurt, and can now focus downfield on his entire group of receivers). I love the way he has learned to take a quick short step up, or to the side, to avoid the pressure. He has been the most accurate passer during the entire camp. He IS our future, and with his ball handling, and his willingness to utilize the running game, will make us more balanced in our attack, and will give defenses more to think about than just getting to Warner. They won't be so ready to lay their ears back and bring it every down, cause he will burn them for doing so.

I really like what Davis and Walker showed us last night. The maturation process is working and they are becoming very solid indeed. Same with Byrd. I believe keeping him makes sense, as he not only is a good pass-catching TE, but can let us carry 4 RB's because of his ability to become an H-back and provide depth behind Kreider in the FB position. I like his tenacity, something that seems to be lacking in our other TE's.

As for the first half-----I would REALLY like for Wilson to show the discipline necessary to hold his water, especially on the third down of the first series of the game. He is the man that ALL the others look for to set the tone of the game, and his failure to display discipline seems to permeate through the ENTIRE team. To me, this lack of discipline is HUGELY responsible for the poor performances of our defensive units, and one only has to look to Rolle, DRC, and Francisco to see that this lack of discipline carries on through the unit. They don't seem to realize the importance of making the opposing offense go 3 and out on the very first series. With Coach Whiz's propensity to defer the choice of taking the ball to the second half, it is NECESSARY to take the other offense out of any comfort zone the might have IMMEDIATELY. One little slip-up at that critical juncture of the game, (like A-dub has a habit of doing), is akin to the little boy taking his finger out of the dyke, and opening it up for the flood to come. He is the stud they ALL look up to, and try to emulate, and showing a lack of discipline is the WORST possible scenario for this bunch. I would like to see some REAL accountability there.

Good to have you back coach-----I have missed your comment and passion for this game that we all love.

 

[joeshmo]

Wonder if Leonard Pope has any trade value. I think he might, and he's heading into a contract year, so maybe the team could get a CB or OLB for him?

Not to sure to many people are going to give up an already established CB or OLB heck even a decent prospect for that matter for a TE. If we wanted to trade Pope I think the best we could get is a guy who would be inactive every game sitting on the bottom of the 53 man roster or a future draft pick. But I like where you are going with it, just think you have to temper your enthusiasm on what we would actually get back in return.

 

[binkar]

Great write-up Mitch.

I disagree with you recommended changes on defense. I do agree that Rolle would be more effective as a strong safety, but I don't think we have the personnel to run your recommended defense either. The truth of the matter is we aren't very deep at any position on defense IMO. I like parts about Rolle's game, but with Wilson on our roster I wouldn't be crushed to see Rolle leave in free agency if Johnson develops as planned this year, and/or we get a true free safety in the off season.

That said, I think your analysis of the game and players was spot on.

The Bad (in terms of individual players):
-Watson just doesn't seem to be right. He isn't holding his ground well and that can't happen.
-Ralph Brown looks terrible in both his coverage and his tackling. I do think he will make the team, but I wouldn't be disappoined at all if he didn't.
-Bertrand Berry seems like he just doesn't care much anymore. He is getting zero pressure on the QB. This is unfortunate because we could REALLY use depth at OLB and he was expected to help provide that. I just don't understand what his deal is.
-DRC had a bad game. Aside from a great play in the opening series, he was taken advantage of on a couple of occasions. I am not worried about him obviously, but he had a bad game.
-Long, Spach, Urban, Doucet, and Castille all dropped balls that should have been caught.
-Warner didn't look great. He made some bad decisions and didn't take care of the ball on a few occasions.

The Good:
-Beanie is going to be an incredible back in this league.
-Leinart looked fantastic for the 3rd week in a row.
-We seem to have had another terrific draft. Other than the disappointing injury to Cody Brown, each rookie looks solid, if not great. LSH's success has been well documented, Will Davis has provided some pass rush and solid special team play, Toler has shown flashes of big time potential, Herman has been impressive, and Johnson has shown flashes. Each of them have had some expected rookie mistakes, but I would say without reservation that up to this point it looks like we had a terrific draft.

Mitch, explain what you mean regarding Francisco. You said he could back both Wilson and Rolle up, but then in the next breath said to keep him away from FS for good. Clarify what you mean.

 

[joeshmo]

and the Cardinals could re-sign them later on when they are healthy and a roster spot becomes available.

Once the injured player is waived and they don't get claimed they automatically go to your IR list. Meaning they are done for the year. Only way off of an IR list is an injury settlement. Then the player is free to sign with anyone they want. But here is the rub, they cannot re-sign with the team that gave them the settlement. Its a rule because teams use to do that in order circumvent the IR list and use it to just stash players, it was a loop hole the league shut down some time ago, because every team had the same idea for a loop hole that you had.

So since all three of the players you suggest cutting then re-signing would be on the waived/IR list we cannot re-sign them back to the active roster anymore.

 

[Mitch]

I am pretty sure Spach was blocking for Beanie's long TD run yesterday.

It was Becht, cfmd.

 

[Mitch]

The chances of URBAN or DOUCET not being on the final 53: Slim and none - IMO

Right on the money, CC.

 

[Sandan]

I wouldn't give you a stick of gum for Pope. He's the ultimate tease, he will give you a big catch then 3 penalties and 2 drops.

He has one 'play' that sticks in my mind. Almost stopping Fitz getting into the endzone

 

[Mitch]

it was Becht

Sorry Bucky you beat me to it. Good call. Becht, IMO, solidified his roster spot last night. Dude can block and we'ze gonna run the rock more, wid TH and Beanie Boy.

 

[Redheart]

Thanks Mitch.

Defense, again we have to stop the run; I also think that Gabe is still hurt.

Good to be able to read your analysis, again.

 

[Mitch]

Once the injured player is waived and they don't get claimed they automatically go to your IR list. Meaning they are done for the year. Only way off of an IR list is an injury settlement. Then the player is free to sign with anyone they want. But here is the rub, they cannot re-sign with the team that gave them the settlement. Its a rule because teams use to do that in order circumvent the IR list and use it to just stash players, it was a loop hole the league shut down some time ago, because every team had the same idea for a loop hole that you had.

So since all three of the players you suggest cutting then re-signing would be on the waived/IR list we cannot re-sign them back to the active roster anymore.

Great point, Joe. This is why we need to raise your salary. You da man!

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

i'm not concerned about defense at all. Last week people were raving about the D,this week they need to change everything . It looked like GB ran 75% of their offensive sets while the Cards,like last week, just played everybody straight up. I agree that the effort probably wasn't to the level it should be but these guys could care less about the pre-season. If the NFL has their way, this game wouldn't have even been played and the regular season would be getting started.

As for the 53 man roster, i think it's pretty much already set.I don't think anybody is going to make the team based on their week 4 pre-season game performance. It will be done in practice. Plus, there is only a spot or two that is up for grabs. Here's how i see the roster:

QB: Warner, Leinart, St. Pierre (3)
RB: Hightower, Wells, Wright, LSH (4)
FB: Kreider, Castille (2)
WR: Fitz, Boldin, Breaston, Urban, Doucet, Morey (6)
TE: Pope, Becht, Byrd (3) Patrick suspended
OL: Gandy, Wells, Sendlein, Lutui, Brown, Keith,Johnson,Fowler, Ross/E. Brown (9)

DL: Dockett, Robinson, Campbell, Watson, Iwebema, Branch (6)
LB: Berry, Okeafor, Haggans, Davis,Dansby, Hayes, Highsmith, Hobson (8)
DB: DRC, McFadden,Toler, Wilson,Rolle,Johnson,Adams, Brown, Francisco/ Ware/ Lewis(9)
K:Rackers
P: Graham
LS: Leach

PS: Palko, Jones, Long, Canfield, Dykes

I think the last roster spot is determined by i Whiz wants to keep 4TE's or 9 DB's and the spot is between Spach and Adams. I prefer Adams. We need all the DB's we can get.

 

[Mitch]

Welcome back Mitch-----This was like a breath of fresh air after the abomination that was the first half of last nights game. I'm happy that someone could put it into some form of order and break it down to where it makes sense. I was at a loss to do so, other than seeing our running game come into being. I have been anxiously awaiting Beanie's arrival, and he did not disappoint.

I too believe that any salvation of our secondary will have to come from Toler and R.Johnson. That, unfortunately will take some time. Rolle has been more of a waste of good money and time in my estimation. I don't even know how Francisco remains on this team, let alone being apparently among the favored.

I love the pick-up of Melvin Fowler to back-up Sendlein. He will continue to push Lyle into staying on his game in order to keep his job. I have always believed that any line is only as good as its Center will let it be. These two are solid in my estimation, and are the anchors that we can build around for a long time.

Matt did have a great game-----especially in light of what occurred in the first half. His new training regimen has made him quicker and stronger, (apparently enough so that he no longer seems to be pre-occupied with getting hurt, and can now focus downfield on his entire group of receivers). I love the way he has learned to take a quick short step up, or to the side, to avoid the pressure. He has been the most accurate passer during the entire camp. He IS our future, and with his ball handling, and his willingness to utilize the running game, will make us more balanced in our attack, and will give defenses more to think about than just getting to Warner. They won't be so ready to lay their ears back and bring it every down, cause he will burn them for doing so.

I really like what Davis and Walker showed us last night. The maturation process is working and they are becoming very solid indeed. Same with Byrd. I believe keeping him makes sense, as he not only is a good pass-catching TE, but can let us carry 4 RB's because of his ability to become an H-back and provide depth behind Kreider in the FB position. I like his tenacity, something that seems to be lacking in our other TE's.

As for the first half-----I would REALLY like for Wilson to show the discipline necessary to hold his water, especially on the third down of the first series of the game. He is the man that ALL the others look for to set the tone of the game, and his failure to display discipline seems to permeate through the ENTIRE team. To me, this lack of discipline is HUGELY responsible for the poor performances of our defensive units, and one only has to look to Rolle, DRC, and Francisco to see that this lack of discipline carries on through the unit. They don't seem to realize the importance of making the opposing offense go 3 and out on the very first series. With Coach Whiz's propensity to defer the choice of taking the ball to the second half, it is NECESSARY to take the other offense out of any comfort zone the might have IMMEDIATELY. One little slip-up at that critical juncture of the game, (like A-dub has a habit of doing), is akin to the little boy taking his finger out of the dyke, and opening it up for the flood to come. He is the stud they ALL look up to, and try to emulate, and showing a lack of discipline is the WORST possible scenario for this bunch. I would like to see some REAL accountability there.

Good to have you back coach-----I have missed your comment and passion for this game that we all love.

Great post, Catfish!