Did I have an english acent, Brighteyes tells me it is fairly prounced.
No, I don't have the radio on either
No, I don't have the radio on either
Patience?
- Thread starter Walter Mitchell
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conraddobler
I want my 2$
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In other threads I have gone over my theory on that.
I don't think it was as much of their doubting Bostons ability or even maybe his problems but his desire to ever play here.
Just addressing the problem issue first though:
They did say they didn't want to guarantee him anything and that is a big issue. He obviously was going to get that somewhere else but not a huge amount of teams lined up to do that as his talent would warrant.
His talent level alone should have had 5 to 10 teams clearing cap room like mad but only one or two really seriously tried. Say what you want it still points to the fact that lots more teams agreed witht the Cardinals take than you are accounting for IMO.
Now to the reason I think they passed on the tag:
IMO I simply think Graves understood that if David Boston didn't want to be here that Boston wasn't a good investment. I will admit I don't know about the sign and trade issue that very well could have been a better option. However to simply tag him and force him to play here isn't saying that you would get him to produce at his obvious talent level.
What you might get is a pouty malcontent that simply phoned it in counting on other teams to see that and still handing him wads of cash. Graves only leverage would be if you stink in your tag year it will hurt your value.
Well IMO that really wouldn't have been the case and I think Graves knew that and knew he had a real good chance of getting totally sucker punched by Boston and said emmmm no thanks.
I just feel that Graves wasn't the cause of the Boston thing. I don't think not throwing huge amounts of upfront money at David Boston if you are the Cardinal GM is really a defining moment.
Two comments.
First assuming you are correct he only got to negogiate with the folks Fergie brough in.
Secondly, just because he was the front man doing the actual negogiation has no relationship as to who was responsible.
One pefectly normal negogiating tactic is to have the person talking have no power. This prevents spur of the moment choices to give away the farm. In this case I strongly suspect that RG had to get contracts confirmed.
Regardless of who actually had the final say, negogiating contracts is a only part of the GM's job. Who to bring in is a huge part of it and RG never had that control.
Think about it if you were him, he has to negogiate with somebody he would rather not have at all
First assuming you are correct he only got to negogiate with the folks Fergie brough in.
Secondly, just because he was the front man doing the actual negogiation has no relationship as to who was responsible.
One pefectly normal negogiating tactic is to have the person talking have no power. This prevents spur of the moment choices to give away the farm. In this case I strongly suspect that RG had to get contracts confirmed.
Regardless of who actually had the final say, negogiating contracts is a only part of the GM's job. Who to bring in is a huge part of it and RG never had that control.
Think about it if you were him, he has to negogiate with somebody he would rather not have at all
Brian
PANEM ET CIRCENSES
Really good point Conrad (by the way, you're not THE Conrad Dobler are you, cuz if you are remind me not to offend you 
)
You might be right, I would of liked to have seen if they could have at least gotten a pick for him if that's the case.
I know what you say about him being a disgruntled malcontent has some creedance (creedence?) Just look at Simeon Rice.
At any rate, I still wish they had taken the chance, considering the prospect of Kasper, Gilmore and McCaddley on opening day
)You might be right, I would of liked to have seen if they could have at least gotten a pick for him if that's the case.
I know what you say about him being a disgruntled malcontent has some creedance (creedence?) Just look at Simeon Rice.
At any rate, I still wish they had taken the chance, considering the prospect of Kasper, Gilmore and McCaddley on opening day
Brian
PANEM ET CIRCENSES
Nidan,
Once again, I say Fergy's rep as a talent evaluator is impeccable.
Look at his track record. (Maybe I'm not saying this clearly enough). I don't care "who RG wanted" and "having to negotiate with someone HE didn't want"
Just sign who Fergy brings in. Ferguson wasn't calling players and agents cuz he had nothing better to do. He scouted players and brought in people to fill needs.
If you had watched the Cards over the last several off-seasons, how many times did Fergy bring someone in just to have RG show them the door?
Once again, I say Fergy's rep as a talent evaluator is impeccable.
Look at his track record. (Maybe I'm not saying this clearly enough). I don't care "who RG wanted" and "having to negotiate with someone HE didn't want"
Just sign who Fergy brings in. Ferguson wasn't calling players and agents cuz he had nothing better to do. He scouted players and brought in people to fill needs.
If you had watched the Cards over the last several off-seasons, how many times did Fergy bring someone in just to have RG show them the door?
Ouchie-Z-Clown
I'm better than Mulli!
yeah rod graves is #2. DOO DOO! WHEEEEEEEEEEEE!
For what it's worth, from the 2002 media guide....Graves.....was appointed to assume responsibility for the administration of the team/s scouting department in May of 1998. ...also serves as the team's primary contract negotiator in addition to overseeing college and professional scouting efforts....
Would be interesting to know if that means he actually decided who the Cardinals would scout or just coordinated the process of getting the scouts out to look at the guys others designated and getting the reports back to the people in charge of making the actual personell decisions
Would be interesting to know if that means he actually decided who the Cardinals would scout or just coordinated the process of getting the scouts out to look at the guys others designated and getting the reports back to the people in charge of making the actual personell decisions
RLakin
All Star
First off the franchise tag guarantees nothing except that the player it's given to can't leave without your team getting some compensation. The $5.1 is base salary which is not given to the player unless he plays.
Second, it's a moot point because Boston wasn't suspended, and even if (seemingly unlike SD) the Cardinals didn't know that Boston was not going to be suspended, you can always remove the franchise tag if, in fact, he was.
In essence there is no risk nor guaranteed money involved w/ placing that tag, which makes it all the more ridiculous considering the risk you taking in not placing it on him.
Cardiac
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I think that Fergy's talents are a bit over valued by some. I'm pretty sure he wasn't the man at either Denver or Buffalo but part of the "think tank".
It was also obvious that Fergy was very prone to making rash decisions. He is a very emotional guy.
He cried (tears of joy) when the Cards drafted Wadsworth.
He was quoted as saying that Mark Smith should go flip burgers if he didn't like the Cards offer. That really helped the negotiations at that point.
He was the final straw in the Simeon Rice negotiations turning sour, another inappropriate comment to the press.
He also stated that he couldn't watch the end of games when they were close, so he would walk into the tunnel and listen to the crowds reaction.
I would think most of us would want someone negotiating contracts who could control their emotions better than Fergy. Can you picture the swing of emotions that could take place and how Fergy handled them.
Plus how much in demand could he have been to come on board with the Cards in the first place. The Cards never get seasoned well respected managers / coaches.
Graves may have been the point man / puppet for Bidwill in the past but this truly doesn't seem to be the case now. Yes he may still be working with one hand tied behind his back. This would be a huge improvement to having both hands tied, legs bound, shoe laces tied together and a blindfold and gag in place.
Of course since none of us work in the front office or have inside information this is all best guesses on all our parts.
It was also obvious that Fergy was very prone to making rash decisions. He is a very emotional guy.
He cried (tears of joy) when the Cards drafted Wadsworth.
He was quoted as saying that Mark Smith should go flip burgers if he didn't like the Cards offer. That really helped the negotiations at that point.
He was the final straw in the Simeon Rice negotiations turning sour, another inappropriate comment to the press.
He also stated that he couldn't watch the end of games when they were close, so he would walk into the tunnel and listen to the crowds reaction.
I would think most of us would want someone negotiating contracts who could control their emotions better than Fergy. Can you picture the swing of emotions that could take place and how Fergy handled them.
Plus how much in demand could he have been to come on board with the Cards in the first place. The Cards never get seasoned well respected managers / coaches.
Graves may have been the point man / puppet for Bidwill in the past but this truly doesn't seem to be the case now. Yes he may still be working with one hand tied behind his back. This would be a huge improvement to having both hands tied, legs bound, shoe laces tied together and a blindfold and gag in place.
Of course since none of us work in the front office or have inside information this is all best guesses on all our parts.
