Patrick Peterson perspective

Cardiac

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apparently, the "anonymous poster" AND our GM don't see the big picture. But hey... what does Keim know?

"Cornerback Patrick Peterson apparently gave up two touchdowns (it's hard to say definitively without knowing the coverage), and Keim said he understands the frustration some fans have with Peterson.

"When Pat gets in trouble, it's a tendency to not focus and a lack of intensity for 60 minutes," Keim said. "That's on him."

http://www.azcentral.com/story/spor...ell-in-win-over-washington-redskins/17189059/

bottom line for this poster... PP's got all the tools, but I'm still waiting for him to actually put them all together.

After hearing SK on D&W and reading the article you linked I gotta agree that PP should be playing better. I will qualify this by saying I agree with Chopper that it isn't all his fault but between PP crowning himself as the best and his recent contract he isn't living up to most of our expectations.
 

Russ Smith

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apparently, the "anonymous poster" AND our GM don't see the big picture. But hey... what does Keim know?

"Cornerback Patrick Peterson apparently gave up two touchdowns (it's hard to say definitively without knowing the coverage), and Keim said he understands the frustration some fans have with Peterson.

"When Pat gets in trouble, it's a tendency to not focus and a lack of intensity for 60 minutes," Keim said. "That's on him."

http://www.azcentral.com/story/spor...ell-in-win-over-washington-redskins/17189059/

bottom line for this poster... PP's got all the tools, but I'm still waiting for him to actually put them all together.

Well to be fair, Keim is the GM that came into the season without any proven edge rusher beyond Abraham, and didn't draft one either. It's a hell of a lot easier to play DB in the NFL if you have a pass rush that doesn't require blitzing every passing play.

So if I were Keim and we're giving up tons of passing yards to denver and then Washington back to back, I think I'd probably put some blame on the CB's too, easier than admitting I didn't do my job acquiring pass rushers. to be fair it's not his fault DD and CC got hurt.
 

TJ

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Well to be fair, Keim is the GM that came into the season without any proven edge rusher beyond Abraham, and didn't draft one either. It's a hell of a lot easier to play DB in the NFL if you have a pass rush that doesn't require blitzing every passing play.



So if I were Keim and we're giving up tons of passing yards to denver and then Washington back to back, I think I'd probably put some blame on the CB's too, easier than admitting I didn't do my job acquiring pass rushers. to be fair it's not his fault DD and CC got hurt.


I do like that Keim is keeping the heat up on Peterson, but Keim and co inside the meeting room are pinning those TDs on everyone, including safety help and the pass rush.

fans who are putting full blame on Peterson are a) haters, b) not paying attention to schemes, and/or c) don't understand the intricacies of said schemes.
 
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Chopper0080

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apparently, the "anonymous poster" AND our GM don't see the big picture. But hey... what does Keim know?

"Cornerback Patrick Peterson apparently gave up two touchdowns (it's hard to say definitively without knowing the coverage), and Keim said he understands the frustration some fans have with Peterson.

"When Pat gets in trouble, it's a tendency to not focus and a lack of intensity for 60 minutes," Keim said. "That's on him."

http://www.azcentral.com/story/spor...ell-in-win-over-washington-redskins/17189059/

bottom line for this poster... PP's got all the tools, but I'm still waiting for him to actually put them all together.

So, I am of two minds on this. I don't view it as Peterson giving up two TDs yesterday. Both of those plays were almost played perfectly when I reviewed it. Where I will be critical is in Peterson's focus. He does fall asleep in games which is where you see him giving up some uncontested catches.

again, Peterson isn't a finished project, or at least he shouldn't be. That being said, he isn't the overpriced, overhyped, lazy CB some claim him to be either.
 

Brian

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PFF has PP21 ranked 80th out of 102 CB's in the league and he is credited by them as having one pass defensed this year. One.

I'm not sure how PFF is viewed by all on here, and personally I've never visited the site (I heard the stat on the radio). Either way, that's still pretty harsh.

I haven't come out publicly and voiced how I feel about the guy, but I personally feel he is overrated and getting paid too much. Seems like we've all been waiting for a very long time for him to finally put his fingerprint on a game and do something to effect the outcome of a game.

Maybe the new rules are just really killing his style, dunno.
 

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He is worth it, and even more so if you have a pass rush. Has the talent to shut down a part of the field. He is a special player.

I agree he has the talent but it needs to prove it. His focus is off and his ball skills and awareness has dissapeared. Speaking of highly paid corners both Peterson and Haden have are getting burned to the tune of an opposing 132 QB rating. Even Sherman is having a down year (and his commercials suck!)
 

Cheesebeef

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I do like that Keim is keeping the heat up on Peterson, but Keim and co inside the meeting room are pinning those TDs on everyone, including safety help and the pass rush.

fans who are putting full blame on Peterson are a) haters, b) not paying attention to schemes, and/or c) don't understand the intricacies of said schemes.

I don't put full blame on Peterson... I just find his play this year to be lacking. he CAN be better and that doesn't seem to be a minority opinion with either fans or the people that run the team.
 

Russ Smith

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I agree he has the talent but it needs to prove it. His focus is off and his ball skills and awareness has dissapeared. Speaking of highly paid corners both Peterson and Haden have are getting burned to the tune of an opposing 132 QB rating. Even Sherman is having a down year (and his commercials suck!)

Could it be the way they're calling the game this year it's damn near impossible to play CB?
 

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The biggest problem I have with him is he rarely uses his hands to reroute & jam WRs in man to man. IMO that's his biggest weakness & Wolfley ripped him to shreds after the 2nd TD he allowed.

When PP21 is getting the big buck$ he should be playing better than he has. Is it me or when he goes against most of the top flight WRs he usually has his worst games?

Agree about the jamming. He's a strong dude with exceptional physical ability to recover. But I was thinking about it today and changed my tune: when you have no help, and I mean none, you simply cannot jam anyone. If you miss or get beat, if your balance is even a little off or the guy is exceptional at beating jams, you're giving up a TD every time. PP can't jam because if he's wrong or plays it wrong once or more times it's going to be a huge gain if not a TD. Frankly, it's amazing he can play press the way he does with no help.

They put PP in a position where he can't even make picks. He can't cheat or look off for opportunities, all he can do is make sure he's in coverage on his own man. I'm not complaining, it works and free's up other dude's to make plays, but let's not knock him for the lack of INTS or passes defensed. Most of the time his man is so covered they don't even go there--when they do its because his man is open. He has no opportunity to bait a QB or cheat off.
 
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Darkside

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CB is the 2nd hardest position (after QB) to play in the NFL.

This. You need the confidence of a QB but unlike a QB you simply can't be as wrong as often. QB'S can throw incompletions or near-picks. But a CB has to be right almost all the time because when they aren't the QBs nowdays will burn them for it.
 

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Keim got the money ponied up so he can say what he wants but I think PP's been right a greater percentage of the time than Keim. Focus is definitely needed, but I'm not convinced PP is the one needing it.
 

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Keim got the money ponied up so he can say what he wants but I think PP's been right a greater percentage of the time than Keim. Focus is definitely needed, but I'm not convinced PP is the one needing it.

All I know is this. Since the winning from last season to now, PP is definitely earning his keep. Limited pass rush and one on one isolated coverage. Might not be the best, but he fits what the Cardinals need and that is what he has provided
 
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Chopper0080

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Agree about the jamming. He's a strong dude with exceptional physical ability to recover. But I was thinking about it today and changed my tune: when you have no help, and I mean none, you simply cannot jam anyone. If you miss or get beat, if your balance is even a little off or the guy is exceptional at beating jams, you're giving up a TD every time. PP can't jam because if he's wrong or plays it wrong once or more times it's going to be a huge gain if not a TD. Frankly, it's amazing he can play press the way he does with no help.

This is the truth. Jamming with zero help over the top is a recipe for disaster. Even more so if you are matched up vs a teams top WR.

If you want an example, Richard Sherman plays press on teams best WRs when Thomas is shaded to his side. The only time Sherman plays press when he has deep zone is when he is on a lesser talent WR. Now Peterson doesn't do this, and he should, but not even Sherman plays press on teams best WRs without help over the top.
 

Darkside

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All I know is this. Since the winning from last season to now, PP is definitely earning his keep. Limited pass rush and one on one isolated coverage. I he the best, maybe not but he fits what the Cardinals need and that is what he has provided

I think he may actually be the best CB in football. He doesn't have the opportunities to look off, cheat, or bait to get INTS or defensed passes. The way they have him playing his man is either open or not. So when he's open we see PP give up a play and when he's not they're going elsewhere. It's awesome team ball by PP and great scheme by Bowles.
 

Darkside

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This is the truth. Jamming with zero help over the top is a recipe for disaster. Even more so if you are matched up vs a teams top WR.

If you want an example, Richard Sherman plays press on teams best WRs when Thomas is shaded to his side. The only time Sherman plays press when he has deep zone is when he is on a lesser talent WR. Now Peterson doesn't do this, and he should, but not even Sherman plays press on teams best WRs without help over the top.

Seattle actually moved Sherman around against Dallas and he got destroyed. Dez Bryant ate him up, on 3rd downs especially.

Our team asks more of PP than any other team asks of their best corner.

He does give up plays. In today's league it's impossible not to. What is amazing, just amazing, is that he gives up so few. He's almost always playing press and man coverage without help.

The way they have PP playing, he can be awesome 95% of the time but all we'll remember is 2 or 3 plays a game. The rest of the time he's invisible because the ball doesn't go his way.

I also saw PP diving into dudes, DIVING, sticking his nose in there, on tackles. So let's not act like he's lazy or enjoying his cash. He just wants to win.
 

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Seattle actually moved Sherman around against Dallas and he got destroyed. Dez Bryant ate him up, on 3rd downs especially.

Our team asks more of PP than any other team asks of their best corner.

He does give up plays. In today's league it's impossible not to. What is amazing, just amazing, is that he gives up so few. He's almost always playing press and man coverage without help.

The way they have PP playing, he can be awesome 95% of the time but all we'll remember is 2 or 3 plays a game. The rest of the time he's invisible because the ball doesn't go his way.

I also saw PP diving into dudes, DIVING, sticking his nose in there, on tackles. So let's not act like he's lazy or enjoying his cash. He just wants to win.

This
 

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Seattle actually moved Sherman around against Dallas and he got destroyed. Dez Bryant ate him up, on 3rd downs especially.

Our team asks more of PP than any other team asks of their best corner.

He does give up plays. In today's league it's impossible not to. What is amazing, just amazing, is that he gives up so few. He's almost always playing press and man coverage without help.

The way they have PP playing, he can be awesome 95% of the time but all we'll remember is 2 or 3 plays a game. The rest of the time he's invisible because the ball doesn't go his way.

I also saw PP diving into dudes, DIVING, sticking his nose in there, on tackles. So let's not act like he's lazy or enjoying his cash. He just wants to win.

Bottom line is he needs to play better. No more scheme excuses just cause he's a Cardinal. When Sherman gets beat we kill him for it but PP needs to be held to the same standard.
 

Darkside

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Bottom line is he needs to play better. No more scheme excuses just cause he's a Cardinal. When Sherman gets beat we kill him for it but PP needs to be held to the same standard.

Without a doubt. But if we're going to hold him to a standard let's at least compare what he's asked to do vs what other corners are asked to do. Is that fair or no? Let's also add what he allows the rest of our depleted defense to do since he doesn't need help, right?

The scheme I mentioned isn't an excuse dude, I was explaining why he doesn't look awesome. If we're just talking scheme PP would look AWESOME in another scheme.

This scheme limits his individual badassery but is great for the team because it free's up other dude's to make plays. I tried to make that clear and apologies for being obtuse.

And I have to disagree, on this board I think it's the exact oppposite. Sherman gets killed all the time but nobody says anything. But we rip PP because we want more because he's our player.
 

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Bottom line is he needs to play better. No more scheme excuses just cause he's a Cardinal. When Sherman gets beat we kill him for it but PP needs to be held to the same standard.

Early Monday, General Manager Steve Keim said he thought cornerback Patrick Peterson needed to work on his focus. Arians said Sunday’s performance for the team’s top defensive back was “not good for him.”

“He got beat on an inside route when he was supposed to have inside technique -- can’t happen,” Arians said. “When you’re playing inside man-to-man you have to force the guy outside. It was not his best game.”
 

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Peterson is the highest paid corner in the league. His play should in some form or fashion reflect that. I do not believe it has so far this season.

I am all for paying character guys and I realize the person that PP is played a large role in the contract he signed. I have a tremendous amount of respect for the guy.

But the NFL is a bottom line business. Peterson has been nowhere near the best corner in the league and IMO the criticism he has received is warranted. In back to back weeks Emmanuel Sanders and DeSean Jackson have made some really big plays against Peterson, and ankle injury or not, they made him look quite pedestrian to be completely honest.

Is the CB position one of the most difficult to play withe the current rules? Absolutely. However, when you are the highest paid human being on the face of the planet doing whatever it is that you do that comes with a certain level of expectations. At 5 games in I do not believe Peterson has lived up to those expectations. I fear he may still be partly living off of his reputation as a PR honestly. The fact is he is not the same explosive, game altering player as a pure CB that he was as a CB/PR.
 

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OK, there are a lot of "experts" who keep making excuses for PP21 and try to explain away what happened and who to blame other than PP21, but consider that No less than the top local defensive expert Todd Bowles keeps pointing out that PP21 needs to improve his footwork and his techniques instead of merely trying to play off of his talent level alone.

Sure, go ahead and blame the safeties for PP21's porous coverage, but all you are really pointing out is PP21 can't do any better in his defensive coverages than the next DB on the roster and his huge contract and the Cap hit are really not necessary or justified.

DBs like Revis and Talib are able to play receivers tighter and closer than PP21 through better techniques, footwork, and speed. They work to stay close and play to break up passes instead of how PP21 does by allowing receivers to generate space and catch the ball and then afterwards try to defense the receiver. If your excuse is PP21 is too big, then PP21 belongs at safety. If you recognize he no longer has his rookie year closing speed, then play him at safety.

Bottom line, Todd Bowles and Keim (real NFL experts and professionals) both indicate PP21 is not playing as an elite DB and needs to improve. Otherwise, why pay him huge and elite money when he is not producing like an elite dB.

BTW, the Broncos begin to easily have their way with the Cards defense ONLY AFTER Campbell and Shaunessy were knocked out of the game and the Broncos run attack begin to click. As the excuses had already pointed out, Manning had his way with PP21 because the safeties were remiss on their coverages, so it was more of the same for he Broncos after PP21 went out.
 

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Petersen is still learning... Is he "the best"? Who knows... That label gets kicked around a ton and it's never any easy question to answer, particularly at the CB position.
Pat always draws the toughest assignment on every down. And given the fact that the NFL is clearly anti-defense and totally anti-pass defense, it's amazing PP is as successful as he's been!
On the Garçon TD, he got picked by another Redskin receiver. On the Jackson TD, he made a mistake and allowed Desean to get inside position. Still, Honey Badger screwed up there as well as he had terrible "over the top" position and then compounded his mistake by taking a horrendous angle to Jackson, cutting off PP in the process...
Anyway,, I have little doubt that due to his freakish athletic ability, as well as his desire to be a Hall of Fame CB, PP will continue to improve and in truth, we aren't even close to seeing the best from him yet!


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cardpa

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OK, there are a lot of "experts" who keep making excuses for PP21 and try to explain away what happened and who to blame other than PP21, but consider that No less than the top local defensive expert Todd Bowles keeps pointing out that PP21 needs to improve his footwork and his techniques instead of merely trying to play off of his talent level alone.

Sure, go ahead and blame the safeties for PP21's porous coverage, but all you are really pointing out is PP21 can't do any better in his defensive coverages than the next DB on the roster and his huge contract and the Cap hit are really not necessary or justified.

DBs like Revis and Talib are able to play receivers tighter and closer than PP21 through better techniques, footwork, and speed. They work to stay close and play to break up passes instead of how PP21 does by allowing receivers to generate space and catch the ball and then afterwards try to defense the receiver. If your excuse is PP21 is too big, then PP21 belongs at safety. If you recognize he no longer has his rookie year closing speed, then play him at safety.

Bottom line, Todd Bowles and Keim (real NFL experts and professionals) both indicate PP21 is not playing as an elite DB and needs to improve. Otherwise, why pay him huge and elite money when he is not producing like an elite dB.

BTW, the Broncos begin to easily have their way with the Cards defense ONLY AFTER Campbell and Shaunessy were knocked out of the game and the Broncos run attack begin to click. As the excuses had already pointed out, Manning had his way with PP21 because the safeties were remiss on their coverages, so it was more of the same for he Broncos after PP21 went out.

Totally agree. I watched Revis play a lot of man to man and he is always closer and has tighter coverage than PP. Revis technique and footwork is so much better than PP. If PP wants the crown of best CB in the NFL then he needs to play like the best CB in the NFL. Right now he isn't there.
 

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OK, there are a lot of "experts" who keep making excuses for PP21 and try to explain away what happened and who to blame other than PP21, but consider that No less than the top local defensive expert Todd Bowles keeps pointing out that PP21 needs to improve his footwork and his techniques instead of merely trying to play off of his talent level alone.

Sure, go ahead and blame the safeties for PP21's porous coverage, but all you are really pointing out is PP21 can't do any better in his defensive coverages than the next DB on the roster and his huge contract and the Cap hit are really not necessary or justified.

DBs like Revis and Talib are able to play receivers tighter and closer than PP21 through better techniques, footwork, and speed. They work to stay close and play to break up passes instead of how PP21 does by allowing receivers to generate space and catch the ball and then afterwards try to defense the receiver. If your excuse is PP21 is too big, then PP21 belongs at safety. If you recognize he no longer has his rookie year closing speed, then play him at safety.

Bottom line, Todd Bowles and Keim (real NFL experts and professionals) both indicate PP21 is not playing as an elite DB and needs to improve. Otherwise, why pay him huge and elite money when he is not producing like an elite dB.

BTW, the Broncos begin to easily have their way with the Cards defense ONLY AFTER Campbell and Shaunessy were knocked out of the game and the Broncos run attack begin to click. As the excuses had already pointed out, Manning had his way with PP21 because the safeties were remiss on their coverages, so it was more of the same for he Broncos after PP21 went out.


So Steve Keim just paid him a 5 year 70 million deal with 48 guaranteed and he doesn't think he's playing like an elite DB?

Ok.
 
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Chopper0080

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OK, there are a lot of "experts" who keep making excuses for PP21 and try to explain away what happened and who to blame other than PP21, but consider that No less than the top local defensive expert Todd Bowles keeps pointing out that PP21 needs to improve his footwork and his techniques instead of merely trying to play off of his talent level alone.

Sure, go ahead and blame the safeties for PP21's porous coverage, but all you are really pointing out is PP21 can't do any better in his defensive coverages than the next DB on the roster and his huge contract and the Cap hit are really not necessary or justified.

DBs like Revis and Talib are able to play receivers tighter and closer than PP21 through better techniques, footwork, and speed. They work to stay close and play to break up passes instead of how PP21 does by allowing receivers to generate space and catch the ball and then afterwards try to defense the receiver. If your excuse is PP21 is too big, then PP21 belongs at safety. If you recognize he no longer has his rookie year closing speed, then play him at safety.

Bottom line, Todd Bowles and Keim (real NFL experts and professionals) both indicate PP21 is not playing as an elite DB and needs to improve. Otherwise, why pay him huge and elite money when he is not producing like an elite dB.

BTW, the Broncos begin to easily have their way with the Cards defense ONLY AFTER Campbell and Shaunessy were knocked out of the game and the Broncos run attack begin to click. As the excuses had already pointed out, Manning had his way with PP21 because the safeties were remiss on their coverages, so it was more of the same for he Broncos after PP21 went out.

I don't believe it takes an expert to determine that if a player believes he has help over the top by the S, that it isn't his fault if the WR scores because the S got their late. That isn't a theory, that is just explaining defensive responsibilities.

So, I believe Peterson has HOF athletic ability for a CB.

I don't believe he is playing at a HOF level.

I believe he needs to work on technique, route recognition, and technique.

None of these things state that he is playing poorly, he just isn't playing to his potential (which takes time).
 

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