Pay The Man

[mojorizen7]

Could a tandem of Amare and say Chris Paul win a title? Would it be possible to keep Amare and sign a top PG when Nash retires?

CP3 & Amare? I think so.
Then again, i don't think having an elite PG is necessarily the answer.
IMO we already have some pieces in place(Dragic,Dudley,Lopez) that if we were to surround Amare with some quality shooters who can guard people,another rebounder up front, and another elite player (coughJoe Johnson)we'd be moving in the right direction.

 

[Mainstreet]

The 1/2 punch combo of Nash/Stoudemire will never win a title....which translates to: I'm in favor of extending Amare

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Why do you always have to belittle Nash when trying to say you want to extend Amare? Nash is still a very high quality PG but the Suns do need to obtain a third PG because Dragic is very inconsistent running the team. Thus Nash has to play a lot of minutes in back-to-backs because your future starter, Dragic, cannot get the job done.

The Suns need to add a third PG that plays with consistency and another big man that can defend the basket and rebound. Also they need to extend Amare.

Also how do you plan to get Joe Johnson back to Phoenix without breaking the bank?

 

[elindholm]

Nash is still a very high quality PG but the Suns do need to obtain a third PG because Dragic is very inconsistent running the team.

Not quite. The Suns need to acquire a second PG because Dragic is a SG.

 

[devilalum]

Not quite. The Suns need to acquire a second PG because Dragic is a SG.

Currently Dragic is the classic combo guard but he is getting much better at the PG stuff.

 

[Mainstreet]

I think Elindholm and Devialum are both right. At least Dragic can play some PG and SG which makes him a combo guard in my book. It is more difficult to figure out where Barbosa fits into the equation anymore. This definitely explains why the Suns need another PG as I pointed out.

 

[mojorizen7]

Why do you always have to belittle Nash when trying to say you want to extend Amare? Nash is still a very high quality PG but the Suns do need to obtain a third PG because Dragic is very inconsistent running the team. Thus Nash has to play a lot of minutes in back-to-backs because your future starter, Dragic, cannot get the job done.

The Suns need to add a third PG that plays with consistency and another big man that can defend the basket and rebound. Also they need to extend Amare.

Also how do you plan to get Joe Johnson back to Phoenix without breaking the bank?

I don't think having an elite PG is the answer,especially one who cant defend. I'm not going to keep defending my position on Nash and his legacy here. For the 1 trillionth time, I like Steve Nash and he's one of the best offensive players ever.....but Mr Objective says that its time to move on.

As for getting JJ to come back,yeah its a pipe dream....but thats all i've got left anymore concerning the SUNS....hoping that somebody in the FO pulls their head out of their asses eventually and tries to change the 50 n fade offensive culture here.

Amare should be extended and he should be the centerpiece MOVING FORWARD.

 

[elindholm]

Currently Dragic is the classic combo guard but he is getting much better at the PG stuff.

I disagree. He's had a couple of huge games, but otherwise he's pretty much the same player as last year. Look at his stats: http://www.nba.com/playerfile/goran_dragic/career_stats.html. His minutes are up (probably because of Barbosa's injuries more than anything else) and he's a bit more aggressive (shoots more frequently), but his assist rate is almost unchanged. He had one assist per 6.6 minutes last year and is at one per 6.4 this year.

The reason he looks superficially better in a PG role now is that Gentry always has Hill on the floor with him if Nash is sitting, and Hill basically runs the offense as a point forward. Stoudemire is being used more to initiate the offense as well.

If Dragic were on any team other than the Suns, no one on this board would think highly of him at all.

 

[Mainstreet]

I don't think having an elite PG is the answer,especially one who cant defend. I'm not going to keep defending my position on Nash and his legacy here. For the 1 trillionth time, I like Steve Nash and he's one of the best offensive players ever.....but Mr Objective says that its time to move on.

As for getting JJ to come back,yeah its a pipe dream....but thats all i've got left anymore concerning the SUNS....hoping that somebody in the FO pulls their head out of their asses eventually and tries to change the 50 n fade offensive culture here.

Amare should be extended and he should be the centerpiece MOVING FORWARD.

I understand your position on Nash. I just didn't understand why you had to throw in what I perceived as a dig on Nash in your previous statement. See below.

The 1/2 punch combo of Nash/Stoudemire will never win a title....which translates to: I'm in favor of extending Amare

Actually I think there may be some confusion on my part of what you were saying. At least that is a possibility. I thought when you were saying "1/2 punch combo," I thought you were saying one half punch combo.
Obviously this is what irritated me because it ignored Nash's contribution.

I too agree the Suns only realistic option to have a dominant big man is to extend Amare, a position I have not always taken. If the Suns lose Amare for nothing they are not going anywhere.

Now just tell me you were saying Nash and Amare is a one two punch rather than a one half punch.

 

[dodie53]

LB and Jrich for joe and filler

 

[Chaplin]

I disagree. He's had a couple of huge games, but otherwise he's pretty much the same player as last year. Look at his stats: http://www.nba.com/playerfile/goran_dragic/career_stats.html. His minutes are up (probably because of Barbosa's injuries more than anything else) and he's a bit more aggressive (shoots more frequently), but his assist rate is almost unchanged. He had one assist per 6.6 minutes last year and is at one per 6.4 this year.

The reason he looks superficially better in a PG role now is that Gentry always has Hill on the floor with him if Nash is sitting, and Hill basically runs the offense as a point forward. Stoudemire is being used more to initiate the offense as well.

If Dragic were on any team other than the Suns, no one on this board would think highly of him at all.

The kid just can't catch a break with you.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I disagree. He's had a couple of huge games, but otherwise he's pretty much the same player as last year. He had one assist per 6.6 minutes last year and is at one per 6.4 this year.

The reason he looks superficially better in a PG role now is that Gentry always has Hill on the floor with him if Nash is sitting, and Hill basically runs the offense as a point forward. Stoudemire is being used more to initiate the offense as well.

You don't have a little problem with that logic? You claim he's no better than last year because his assists numbers have not improved and yet you point out they put Hill in there with him so that Grant can run the offense? How about the fact that he's also played a lot more minutes this year alongside Nash which would increase his minutes but obviously lower his assist to minutes ratio. Also, not every quality PG makes a living dishing 11 dimes a game. There are a lot of ways to initiate an offense.

All that said, if your point is that he's yet to prove that he can handle a starting PG role I agree. He's shown promise at both guard positions but mostly in relation to how poorly he played last season. I agree with Errntknight in another thread; this offense is designed for Nash and it remains to be seen how Dragic will function in an offense designed around his skillset.

Steve

 

[elindholm]

The kid just can't catch a break with you.

What are you talking about? I've said several times I think he shows promise as a scorer. Saying he's not a PG isn't an insult, any more than saying he's not a center is. Should I start a threat talking about Dragic's potential as a backup center, then get all riled up when others say that's not his position?

 

[elindholm]

You don't have a little problem with that logic? You claim he's no better than last year because his assists numbers have not improved and yet you point out they put Hill in there with him so that Grant can run the offense? How about the fact that he's also played a lot more minutes this year alongside Nash which would increase his minutes but obviously lower his assist to minutes ratio. Also, not every quality PG makes a living dishing 11 dimes a game. There are a lot of ways to initiate an offense.

It's not just that. He still, after almost two years in the league, can't dribble with his off hand, rarely makes the right decision on the fast break, is sloppy with the ball in general (witness the high turnover rate), panics when he's covered tightly, and frankly doesn't see the court well unless the spacing is wide open. If you've watched the games carefully, I'm sure you've seen all of the same things.

Maybe he'll get better, but as of now, he's of no use as a rotation point guard on a good team.

 

[AzStevenCal]

It's not just that. He still, after almost two years in the league, can't dribble with his off hand, rarely makes the right decision on the fast break, is sloppy with the ball in general (witness the high turnover rate), panics when he's covered tightly, and frankly doesn't see the court well unless the spacing is wide open. If you've watched the games carefully, I'm sure you've seen all of the same things.

Maybe he'll get better, but as of now, he's of no use as a rotation point guard on a good team.

I think he's a little better than you've given him credit for. Unfortunately, I don't think he's a lot better than you've given him credit for. But again, to me he shows a lot more now than he did a season ago.

Steve

 

[devilalum]

I disagree. He's had a couple of huge games, but otherwise he's pretty much the same player as last year. Look at his stats: http://www.nba.com/playerfile/goran_dragic/career_stats.html. His minutes are up (probably because of Barbosa's injuries more than anything else) and he's a bit more aggressive (shoots more frequently), but his assist rate is almost unchanged. He had one assist per 6.6 minutes last year and is at one per 6.4 this year.

The reason he looks superficially better in a PG role now is that Gentry always has Hill on the floor with him if Nash is sitting, and Hill basically runs the offense as a point forward. Stoudemire is being used more to initiate the offense as well.

If Dragic were on any team other than the Suns, no one on this board would think highly of him at all.

You may be right but in the one game Dragic started he had 16 points and 10 assists in 39 minutes and was huge in a big game against a tough team on the road.

 

[krazyasiankid]

You may be right but in the one game Dragic started he had 16 points and 10 assists in 39 minutes and was huge in a big game against a tough team on the road.

I remember that game well. It was the game where after it, I ate a massive piece of humble pie and vowed never to criticise Kerr's second round picks ever again.

 

[Covert Rain]

I one for one think Dragic is definitely better then last season. One thing you have to look at stat wise is that most of his stats last season came in garbage time. You have to factor in the quality minutes he is getting this year and the fact that he is doing it against starting players this year. To see no drop off in the assist ratio and it coming against tier 1 players says something to me.

To say that Dragic is the same player is just mind boggling to me. Keep in mind I was one of his most verbal critics last year. Yes, there are time I see him give up on the dribble to early or times that he still looks confused on where to go with the ball. This is hist first year with significant playing time and see him getting better.

I like some others am not sure I see his as the teams future PG because maybe SG is his more natural position. However, the kid has some PG skills that maybe can be developed more. Either way I see him being a solid contributor if things continue in this direction.

 

[Billythekidd]

We cannot let Amare walk. Amare is reaching his basketball prime. Most past greats realize their potential and reach their peak basketball I.Q around 28+. Take two greats in Jordan and Malone, both become dominant intelligent team players in their later 20's. Jordan didn't win his first title till he was 28. I know i might be reaching here but Amare is finally 'getting' it. He is now excelling in all areas of his game and this comes with maturity and experience. His best years are upon us. Sarver should do everything in his power to retain this guy.

 

[msdundee]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_y...g=mc-afterthebuzzer032610&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

(Quote) As Stoudemire later told Yahoo Sports, "I'm getting more expensive by the game."

 

[NastyOne]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_y...g=mc-afterthebuzzer032610&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

(Quote) As Stoudemire later told Yahoo Sports, "I'm getting more expensive by the game."

While some fans will make a big deal about his comments. Can anyone say its not true?

By the suns taking their time to sign Amare, his value just keeps rising and rising. And by taking so long to give him an extension, they have damn near guaranteed themselves that they will have to give him a max contract or we lose him.

This smells like the Joe Johnson situation all over again. Hopefully by us trying to get Amare signed for less than his worth, we don't end up losing him in the process... just like JJ.

 

[cly2tw]

While some fans will make a big deal about his comments. Can anyone say its not true?

By the suns taking their time to sign Amare, his value just keeps rising and rising. And by taking so long to give him an extension, they have damn near guaranteed themselves that they will have to give him a max contract or we lose him.

This smells like the Joe Johnson situation all over again. Hopefully by us trying to get Amare signed for less than his worth, we don't end up losing him in the process... just like JJ.

Exactly. I bet Kerr and Sarver told Amare in that past-deadline dinner, "Go out there and work on your game, you'll get well compensated!" Just like what they told JJ. Well, then they mishandled the negotiation with JJ completely. But I believe Kerr was upfront and honest with Amare. So, he is still ours to lose, I believe.

 

[slinslin]

This team is not Nash's team anymore.

It is very evident to me in the last 2 months it is all Amare. He has carried us on almost all nights. It seems everyone has accepted him as the go-to guy on offense and as a result he is giving more effort on defense as well.

Nash on the other hand has played poorly.

We can't afford to let him go, he is just showing signs of entering his prime as a player and as a leader and personality on the team.

He is growing into a franchise player before our eyes..

 

[Mainstreet]

This team is not Nash's team anymore.

It is very evident to me in the last 2 months it is all Amare. He has carried us on almost all nights. It seems everyone has accepted him as the go-to guy on offense and as a result he is giving more effort on defense as well.

Nash on the other hand has played poorly.

We can't afford to let him go, he is just showing signs of entering his prime as a player and as a leader and personality on the team.

He is growing into a franchise player before our eyes..

I grant you Amare appears to be growing into the Suns franchise player but to say Nash has played poorly, even while injured, is off the wall. Dragic, as much as I like his potential, is not ready to take over for Nash. One still needs a sparkplug (Nash) to make the engine run. I don't why people have to knock Nash to pump up Amare.

 

[slinslin]

Nash is averaging about 11/11 since the ASG, his FG and 3pt% are both down about 8% or so in that stretch.

He made many stupid plays in close game situations.

In my opinion he has been playing extremely bad for his standards.

 

[Mainstreet]

Nash is averaging about 11/11 since the ASG, his FG and 3pt% are both down about 8% or so in that stretch.

He made many stupid plays in close game situations.

In my opinion he has been playing extremely bad for his standards.

Yes, Nash's stats may be down for his standards but as you know he is playing injured. Nash playing mediocre is usually better than most other PGs' best. It helps that Amare is playing the best basketball I have ever seen him play. I worry that the Suns might lose him for nothing and he will become a franchise player for another team like he has already become for Phoenix. Maybe we just look at things differently. I believe a team can have two franchise players.