Pelicans @ Suns 3-1-19

[sunsfan88]

Ayton has got to be a much better rebounder. On a team like the Suns which is perfect for stat padding because there’s nobody to steal rebounds from him, he should be averaging like 15 rebounds considering the mins that he plays.

 

[Phrazbit]

Booker with a true posterizing of AD is probably our highlight play of the season so far.

Also, what Oubre said a few weeks ago is absolutely true. Between our inexperience, both in players and coaches and our lack of depth, if teams play hard for 48 minutes it is a virtual lock that they will beat us. We seem to always have a quarter where we go off the rails.

Jones might be right that bringing in 3-4 quality veterans would make us drastically better (especially if one of them is a starting caliber PG), but I still have no faith that Jones is the guy to find the right players and acquire them for a reasonable cost.

 

[Hoop Head]

Jones might be right that bringing in 3-4 quality veterans would make us drastically better (especially if one of them is a starting caliber PG), but I still have no faith that Jones is the guy to find the right players and acquire them for a reasonable cost.

This is one thing I'm curious to see going forward, what the team spends on players. Up until last offseason with the Ariza deal, I'd give McD a lot of credit for stretching a dollar. We didn't sign any really stupid cap killing contracts in his time as GM. We resigned the Morrii and Warren to good extensions coming off of their rookie deals and he even managed to pay a Rich Paul client less than the max he was asking for with Bledsoe. I know Chandler and Dudley deals weren't great but if you look at other deals that were signed when those were they were good compared to what other teams were doing. I know there's a possibility that McD wasn't the one handling the financials on them but I doubt the media would have stayed quiet if they caught wind of Sarver negotiating financials with players or agents. That was one thing we could look forward to in McD's tenure though, we wouldn't sign any horrific or crippling deals.

 

[SirStefan32]

I think the Suns are so desperate that they will absolutely have to overpay, especially for a starting-caliber point guard, even if it's just someone like Collison or Rubio.

 

[taz02]

This is one thing I'm curious to see going forward, what the team spends on players. Up until last offseason with the Ariza deal, I'd give McD a lot of credit for stretching a dollar. We didn't sign any really stupid cap killing contracts in his time as GM. We resigned the Morrii and Warren to good extensions coming off of their rookie deals and he even managed to pay a Rich Paul client less than the max he was asking for with Bledsoe. I know Chandler and Dudley deals weren't great but if you look at other deals that were signed when those were they were good compared to what other teams were doing. I know there's a possibility that McD wasn't the one handling the financials on them but I doubt the media would have stayed quiet if they caught wind of Sarver negotiating financials with players or agents. That was one thing we could look forward to in McD's tenure though, we wouldn't sign any horrific or crippling deals.

On the other hand we haven't signed anyone that helps us win games. I know what you mean and its good we are not strapped to any bad contracts but at some point we are going to have to take risks financially if this is going to get turned around.

If we believe Igor is a good coach and talent and youth are the primary reasons for our record we are going to need another star player or two. Its hard if not impossible to find a star player in his prime that doesn't come with a lot of risk.

McD's astute spending has netted 12 wins this season.

 

[AzStevenCal]

If we believe Igor is a good coach and talent and youth are the primary reasons for our record we are going to need another star player or two. Its hard if not impossible to find a star player in his prime that doesn't come with a lot of risk.

McD's astute spending has netted 12 wins this season.

I don't think anyone here (or at least, not very many here) agree with this. I've maintained (as have others) that our talent and youth are the primary reasons for our record but that doesn't necessarily mean Koko is a good coach. I'm sort of in his corner because we have not given him a workable roster. I'm not in love with what I've seen that appears to be coaching related but who can tell what's really going on when your roster is this poorly constructed

 

[Chaplin]

Ayton has got to be a much better rebounder. On a team like the Suns which is perfect for stat padding because there’s nobody to steal rebounds from him, he should be averaging like 15 rebounds considering the mins that he plays.

Since none of his teammates are helping in the rebounding department, ESPECIALLY on offense, how do you propose that? It's not like he's generally having to get the rebound from at least 2, but sometimes 3, opposing players, AND he's constantly out on the perimeter away from the basket... Oh wait. That's exactly what it is.

I find it hilarious that they guy averages 10 as a rookie without any help and yet we expect him to get MORE...

 

[Cheesebeef]

Ayton seems to be getting more marginalized on offense the longer the season goes. They literally didn't even try to run a play for him once in the second half until the closing minutes when the game was a blowout.

We're watching other rookies get better as the season goes on, while he's exactly the player he was when he stepped on the floor. Coaches are not grooming this guy. He seems like an after thought on offense. And that leads me to the biggest reason Koko has to go. Too many guys have either taken steps backwards this year or literally haven't progressed at all from season's beginning. Another year of that and you start to cement real bad habits that will take a lot of time to unwind. throw in the fact that they are just abysmal on D and don't even play hard for 48 minutes a game and I'm really struggling to see why he deserves another crack at this. Booker said the disorganization on the court is the worst it's ever been. Aston is saying he's given the system time to do it's thing, it's not working so he's going to take over (which he hasn't). Those are your two main building blocks who threw haymakers at the coaching staff with those comments. I don't know why anyone thinks they're just going to do a 180 and completely buy in because... Koko... might have... Darren Collison or Ricky Rubio next year.

 

[Hoop Head]

Since none of his teammates are helping in the rebounding department, ESPECIALLY on offense, how do you propose that? It's not like he's generally having to get the rebound from at least 2, but sometimes 3, opposing players, AND he's constantly out on the perimeter away from the basket... Oh wait. That's exactly what it is.

I find it hilarious that they guy averages 10 as a rookie without any help and yet we expect him to get MORE...

How are you missing the point he was trying to make? Over the last few years Tyson Chandler and Alex Len have been able to average similar rebound numbers to Ayton because the Suns don't have rebounders other than the Center they roll out every night. So while Ayton is on the floor he grabs 10 boards a game without much effort, like Chandler and Len before him. If we had a good rebounder at Center like DeAndre Jordan or Andre Drummond then it's not hard to imagine they would grab 15 or more boards a night because they would grab the same gimmes that Ayton does and also manage to pull down a few extras that the Suns allow the other team to get for second chance points or we would finally get some second chance opportunities ourself. It's because there are no other rebounders on the Suns that some would suspect Ayton to grab more rebounds than those Centers of the past because he's supposed to be a very good rebounder but he's actually not pulling down more than they did, in fact he's getting less.

I can see exactly the point he's trying to make and while I agree with it to a certain extent, I'm willing to give Ayton some slack because he is just a rookie but I'm not going to say his 10 rebounds a game is anything great though considering no one else on our team rebounds so I would hope out 7 foot #1 overall pick would be able to pull down at least 10 since he doesn't need to compete with any teammates for rebounds.

 

[1Sun]

Ayton seems to be getting more marginalized on offense the longer the season goes. They literally didn't even try to run a play for him once in the second half until the closing minutes when the game was a blowout.

We're watching other rookies get better as the season goes on, while he's exactly the player he was when he stepped on the floor. Coaches are not grooming this guy. He seems like an after thought on offense. And that leads me to the biggest reason Koko has to go. Too many guys have either taken steps backwards this year or literally haven't progressed at all from season's beginning. Another year of that and you start to cement real bad habits that will take a lot of time to unwind. throw in the fact that they are just abysmal on D and don't even play hard for 48 minutes a game and I'm really struggling to see why he deserves another crack at this. Booker said the disorganization on the court is the worst it's ever been. Aston is saying he's given the system time to do it's thing, it's not working so he's going to take over (which he hasn't). Those are your two main building blocks who threw haymakers at the coaching staff with those comments. I don't know why anyone thinks they're just going to do a 180 and completely buy in because... Koko... might have... Darren Collison or Ricky Rubio next year.

This...only I have been saying it since November...

 

[sunsfan88]

Since none of his teammates are helping in the rebounding department, ESPECIALLY on offense, how do you propose that? It's not like he's generally having to get the rebound from at least 2, but sometimes 3, opposing players, AND he's constantly out on the perimeter away from the basket... Oh wait. That's exactly what it is.

I find it hilarious that they guy averages 10 as a rookie without any help and yet we expect him to get MORE...

If he had teammates helping in the rebounding department, you would be here saying that the teammates are stealing rebounds from him...

 

[BC867]

If he had teammates helping in the rebounding department, you would be here saying that the teammates are stealing rebounds from him...

Posting what you think another poster would be saying is conjecture, not fact.

In fact, with a Power Forward who can rebound next to Ayton, he wouldn't be the only rebounder to smother.

Between them, they'd help the Suns get more rebounds. And that is what matters the most.

Two threats instead of one in any area is always better.


That goes double for Booker. They smother him and it affects our best scorer and, unfortunately, our best distributor all in one shot.


The Suns approach to both staffing and executing is very unprofessional. Because it is in the hands of inexperienced "leaders".

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

How are you missing the point he was trying to make? Over the last few years Tyson Chandler and Alex Len have been able to average similar rebound numbers to Ayton because the Suns don't have rebounders other than the Center they roll out every night. So while Ayton is on the floor he grabs 10 boards a game without much effort, like Chandler and Len before him. If we had a good rebounder at Center like DeAndre Jordan or Andre Drummond then it's not hard to imagine they would grab 15 or more boards a night because they would grab the same gimmes that Ayton does and also manage to pull down a few extras that the Suns allow the other team to get for second chance points or we would finally get some second chance opportunities ourself. It's because there are no other rebounders on the Suns that some would suspect Ayton to grab more rebounds than those Centers of the past because he's supposed to be a very good rebounder but he's actually not pulling down more than they did, in fact he's getting less.

I can see exactly the point he's trying to make and while I agree with it to a certain extent, I'm willing to give Ayton some slack because he is just a rookie but I'm not going to say his 10 rebounds a game is anything great though considering no one else on our team rebounds so I would hope out 7 foot #1 overall pick would be able to pull down at least 10 since he doesn't need to compete with any teammates for rebounds.

Agreed

 

[Chaplin]

How are you missing the point he was trying to make? Over the last few years Tyson Chandler and Alex Len have been able to average similar rebound numbers to Ayton because the Suns don't have rebounders other than the Center they roll out every night. So while Ayton is on the floor he grabs 10 boards a game without much effort, like Chandler and Len before him. If we had a good rebounder at Center like DeAndre Jordan or Andre Drummond then it's not hard to imagine they would grab 15 or more boards a night because they would grab the same gimmes that Ayton does and also manage to pull down a few extras that the Suns allow the other team to get for second chance points or we would finally get some second chance opportunities ourself. It's because there are no other rebounders on the Suns that some would suspect Ayton to grab more rebounds than those Centers of the past because he's supposed to be a very good rebounder but he's actually not pulling down more than they did, in fact he's getting less.

I can see exactly the point he's trying to make and while I agree with it to a certain extent, I'm willing to give Ayton some slack because he is just a rookie but I'm not going to say his 10 rebounds a game is anything great though considering no one else on our team rebounds so I would hope out 7 foot #1 overall pick would be able to pull down at least 10 since he doesn't need to compete with any teammates for rebounds.

Alex Len and Tyson Chandler pilled dowb 10rpg for us? That’s new.

You e completely missed the point. Your last sentence proves it.

It’s like you think that a given game should have around 30 rebounds for the taking for us, and since Ayton is the only rebounder we have, he should be able to get all 30, right? That is an exaggeration but you get the idea.

 

[Finito]

Wash, rinse, repeat

Same damn conversation every game.

Ayton isn’t getting used right

Ayton should be averaging super unrealistic numbers for a rookie!!

Igor sucks

It’s not Igor’s fault the roster sucks.


You know who I’m most disappointed in? Devin Booker he’s become everything his critics said he was the ultimate empty stats guy and lately his stats haven’t even been that great. You can see he’s developed some really bad habits.

Last night he made some of the laziest passes you’ll ever seen in an NBA game. His BS of aurging calls really needs to stop, you’ll see him not run back just to aurgue a call 3 possessions later he’s still freaking aurging about it. The finger pointing when he himself is one of the worst defenders on the team is super bad.

This type of stuff I feel falls on the staff this team is really going in a bad way. Suns gave up a lead last night no timeouts to stop the bleeding no hey guys let’s regroup and run some high percentage plays to settle things down nope just keep running down and chucking it up.

 

[Mainstreet]

Comments like these get old after awhile. Not much new to say I guess.

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[AzStevenCal]

Comments like these get old after awhile. Not much new to say I guess.

They do get old but unfortunately, they are true. I mentioned several months ago that really young teams have trouble closing out games (and quarters) and are notorious for not handling a change in momentum. They start to coast if they get a lead and they fall apart when momentum swings against them . It happens almost every game. It would be nice if our coaching staff could do something about it but I suspect that it wouldn't be such a common concern about young teams if it was easy to coach away.

 

[taz02]

I don't think anyone here (or at least, not very many here) agree with this. I've maintained (as have others) that our talent and youth are the primary reasons for our record but that doesn't necessarily mean Koko is a good coach. I'm sort of in his corner because we have not given him a workable roster. I'm not in love with what I've seen that appears to be coaching related but who can tell what's really going on when your roster is this poorly constructed

Thanks for the clarification......I'm on board with your position on youth, roster construction and health. I don't even think Igor is a bad coach but I do think he is a bad fit for this team. I believe if we had Doncic we would be much better. I believe that if we had a different "system" designed around Ayton the team would be better and Ayton would be showing improvement.

 

[Mainstreet]

They do get old but unfortunately, they are true. I mentioned several months ago that really young teams have trouble closing out games (and quarters) and are notorious for not handling a change in momentum. They start to coast if they get a lead and they fall apart when momentum swings against them . It happens almost every game. It would be nice if our coaching staff could do something about it but I suspect that it wouldn't be such a common concern about young teams if it was easy to coach away.

The Suns are a young team but I'm not going to dig into the bag of excuses most every game. They should be winning more games than last season. Everything cannot be blamed on youth. I think it's doing the team a disservice to continually excuse it away.

 

[Finito]

The Suns are a young team but I'm not going to dig into the bag of excuses most every game. They should be winning more games than last season. Everything cannot be blamed on youth. I think it's doing the team a disservice to continually excuse it away.

Funny other young teams aren’t like this. It’s not youth it’s a dysfunctional franchise we’ve been bad for a decade

 

[AzStevenCal]

Funny other young teams aren’t like this. It’s not youth it’s a dysfunctional franchise we’ve been bad for a decade

Find me another team that is this young and has this few prime aged veterans. I can't find one, EVER. Like I said before, the 10 win Philadelphia team from a few years ago is the closest I can come.

As for dysfunctional franchise, I agree. And a functional front office probably wouldn't have put us in this position. But I don't think a good management group solves this problem over night, or in one season. And that's what it would be, this mix of kids and grandpas is extreme even compared to the rosters we've had the past couple of years.

 

[AzStevenCal]

The Suns are a young team but I'm not going to dig into the bag of excuses most every game. They should be winning more games than last season. Everything cannot be blamed on youth. I think it's doing the team a disservice to continually excuse it away.

I know you and a lot of others don't want to hear it but that doesn't mean it isn't true. Maybe the new temp GM should have been able to fix it - I really don't know. Maybe the coaching staff should have been able to fix it - again, I really don't know. I do know though that I have heard these comments about young players and young teams for several decades. I didn't just make them up to try and excuse away our poor play. It is fact, not just an excuse - young teams and young players are more prone to these kinds of problems.

 

[Finito]

Find me another team that is this young and has this few prime aged veterans. I can't find one, EVER. Like I said before, the 10 win Philadelphia team from a few years ago is the closest I can come.

As for dysfunctional franchise, I agree. And a functional front office probably wouldn't have put us in this position. But I don't think a good management group solves this problem over night, or in one season. And that's what it would be, this mix of kids and grandpas is extreme even compared to the rosters we've had the past couple of years.

Your right Steve it’s youth. Been youth for the last decade.

 

[1Sun]

Find me another team that is this young and has this few prime aged veterans. I can't find one, EVER. Like I said before, the 10 win Philadelphia team from a few years ago is the closest I can come.

As for dysfunctional franchise, I agree. And a functional front office probably wouldn't have put us in this position. But I don't think a good management group solves this problem over night, or in one season. And that's what it would be, this mix of kids and grandpas is extreme even compared to the rosters we've had the past couple of years.

The Sacramento Kings right now have this few prime aged veterans...

 

[Mainstreet]

I know you and a lot of others don't want to hear it but that doesn't mean it isn't true. Maybe the new temp GM should have been able to fix it - I really don't know. Maybe the coaching staff should have been able to fix it - again, I really don't know. I do know though that I have heard these comments about young players and young teams for several decades. I didn't just make them up to try and excuse away our poor play. It is fact, not just an excuse - young teams and young players are more prone to these kinds of problems.

I'm wanting the Suns to play better on a regular basis and show some progress.

This season, I'm just not seeing it.

At this point I'm not looking at wins and losses.