PFF debate on Murray to AZ

[cardsfanmd]

If Trent filter can win a super bowl why can’t Rosen?

Ray Lewis
Peter Boulware
Chris McAllister
Jamal Lewis
Shannon Sharpe
Tony Siragusa
Sam Adams
Michael McCrary
Rod Woodson

 

[b8rtm8nn]

Drafting Kyler with Rosen still on the team is #notsmart.

I don’t get this. It’s been done in the past, it can be done again. It isn’t ideal, but quarterback is so valuable, it seems worth the risk.

 

[slanidrac16]

Ray Lewis
Peter Boulware
Chris McAllister
Jamal Lewis
Shannon Sharpe
Tony Siragusa
Sam Adams
Michael McCrary
Rod Woodson

Good point . You need a good team around any qb to win. This team doesn’t have enough around the any qb to win. We drafted a qb last year. Build a team around him.

 

[BW52]

Good point . You need a good team around any qb to win. This team doesn’t have enough around the any qb to win. We drafted a qb last year. Build a team around him.

Bingo.We have a winner.Why this fact is so hard for some to understand?Do the Murraymites really think he would come in and start right away and lead the team ?

 

[cardsfanmd]

Bingo.We have a winner.Why this fact is so hard for some to understand?Do the Murraymites really think he would come in and start right away and lead the team ?

Duh. Why didn’t anyone think about that. All we need to do is build the greatest defense of all time and add a 2,000 yard per season rb. This should be cake. Who needs a great QB?

 

[BW52]

Duh. Why didn’t anyone think about that. All we need to do is build the greatest defense of all time and add a 2,000 yard per season rb. This should be cake. Who needs a great QB?

...The real ******* thing would be drafting a midget T-Rex armed dwarf QB and thinking he will lead the team and be a game changing player.Thats what is real dumb.

 

[PACardsFan]

If Trent filter can win a super bowl why can’t Rosen?

That era of NFL football is long, long, gone. The rules support, and will continue to support the offense. Trent Dilfer could not play in today's NFL.

 

[juza76]

Four unknowns are:

Which of the 2 QB's is better right now?

Which of the two has the higher upside?

Which QB is more likely to more quicklly outgrow the standard "dumb rookie" phase?

If we draft Murray, is the projected upgrade in QB play worth more than the addition of a non-QB like Bosa or Q Williams?

murray is better, great ratio tds/int, more accurate on short passes, ridicolous mobility, accurate thrower while running

rosen has been good just in high school which means also nothing

college a big mmeeehh, 1st year pro forgettable

i still wondering why he got the kind of hype

 

[BW52]

murray is better, great ratio tds/int, more accurate on short passes, ridicolous mobility, accurate thrower while running

rosen has been good just in high school which means also nothing

college a big mmeeehh, 1st year pro forgettable

i still wondering why he got the kind of hype

And I can`t help wondering that the Murray is better crowd thinks his size,height (lack thereof) and running skills will transition to the NFl where he will be a boy among men.You don`t have to step in a turd to know it stinks......you avoid it.

 

[b8rtm8nn]

That era of NFL football is long, long, gone. The rules support, and will continue to support the offense. Trent Dilfer could not play in today's NFL.

Nonsense, I see four-five 'average' QBs that made it to the superbowl over the last ten years. Offensive coaching means a tremendous amount, as does the defense and luck to make it this far. And the rules allow for mediocre QBs to be more successful, in terms of metrics, not less.

XLIII
2/1/09
Ben Roethlisberger, Pittsburgh Steelers Miami (OH) 3/2/82 26
KURT WARNER, Arizona Cardinals Northern Iowa 6/22/71 37

XLIV
2/7/10
Drew Brees, New Orleans Saints Purdue 1/15/79 31
Peyton Manning, Indianapolis Colts Tennessee 3/24/76 33

XLV
2/6/11
Aaron Rodgers, Green Bay Packers California 12/2/83 27
Ben Roethlisberger, Pittsburgh Steelers Miami (OH) 3/2/82 28

XLVI
2/5/12
Eli Manning, New York Giants Mississippi 1/3/81 31
Tom Brady, New England Patriots Michigan 8/3/77 34

XLVII
2/3/13
Joe Flacco, Baltimore Ravens Delaware 1/16/85 28
Colin Kaepernick, San Francisco 49ers Nevada 11/3/87 25

XLVIII
2/2/14
Russell Wilson, Seattle Seahawks NC State, Wisconsin 11/29/88 25
Peyton Manning, Denver Broncos Tennessee 3/24/76 37

XLIX
2/1/15
Tom Brady, New England Patriots Michigan 8/3/77 37
Russell Wilson, Seattle Seahawks NC State, Wisconsin 11/29/88 26

50
2/7/16
Peyton Manning, Denver Broncos Tennessee 3/24/76 39
Cam Newton, Carolina Panthers Auburn 5/11/89 26

LI 2/5/17 Tom Brady, New England Patriots Michigan 8/3/77 39
Matt Ryan, Atlanta Falcons Boston College 5/17/85 31

LII 2/4/18 Tom Brady, New England Patriots Michigan 8/3/77 40
Nick Foles, Philadelphia Eagles Arizona 1/20/89 29

LII 2/3/19 Tom Brady, New England Patriots Michigan 8/3/77 41
Jared Goff, Los Angeles Rams California 10/14/94 24

 

[juza76]

And I can`t help wondering that the Murray is better crowd thinks his size,height (lack thereof) and running skills will transition to the NFl where he will be a boy among men.You don`t have to step in a turd to know it stinks......you avoid it.

he looked like a boy among men even in college and he was dominant

 

[slanidrac16]

Bingo.We have a winner.Why this fact is so hard for some to understand?Do the Murraymites really think he would come in and start right away and lead the team ?

Yes they do. They picture an Oklahoma highlight reel play after play and game after game.

 

[BW52]

he looked like a boy among men even in college and he was dominant

And you blindly think he will be a game changing Qb in the NFL because of what? He had 4 O-Linemen blocking for him that likely will be drafted.Solid Wrs and played in a defense-poor conference and you think he will duplicate the same success in the NFL? LMAO.Whole different level of talent facing him every play.

 

[GuernseyCard]

That era of NFL football is long, long, gone. The rules support, and will continue to support the offense. Trent Dilfer could not play in today's NFL.

What was the score at this year's SB?

 

[Mainstreet]

Four unknowns are:

Which of the 2 QB's is better right now?

Which of the two has the higher upside?

Which QB is more likely to more quicklly outgrow the standard "dumb rookie" phase?

If we draft Murray, is the projected upgrade in QB play worth more than the addition of a non-QB like Bosa or Q Williams?

I like your effort to look at this logically.

 

[SissyBoyFloyd]

If you had to choose between life for 84 yrs or non-life for eternity, which would you choose? You absolutely can't have both. It's totally yours to pick one or the other.

Think about the ramification of that for at least a full minute before answering.

Well ..... what is your answer?

I'll tell you what your answer means after everyone has had a chance to answer &/or think about it.

 

[Cardsfaninlouky]

I've gone back & rewatched the entire season. Unfortunately, the number of boneheaded throws far outnumbered the number of wow throws. Can that change some with better coaching & better players around him? Sure it can. My contention though is that Rosen will always be predisposed to boneheaded plays. If everything fell into place nicely, he can get us to the playoffs. Like a Plummer or Palmer, we would NEVER win a SB with Josh Rosen as our QB.

I understand, that's your opinion & I respect it, you may very well be right. I'm saving my judgement on him until after a full season behind a good off line & with good receivers. Good play calling also, another disadvantage for him last yr as well. I'm hoping he can take us to a SB & win gosh darnit lol.

 

[ajcardfan]

Bingo.We have a winner.Why this fact is so hard for some to understand?Do the Murraymites really think he would come in and start right away and lead the team ?

Why do you have to keep putting this exchange of opinions with basically religious labels? Is it not possible to like a player without blind belief and faith? No one here is a disciple of Murray. Murray teaches nothing valuable. He just plays football. It's a game. Whoever scores the most points wins.

 

[BW52]

Why do you have to keep putting this exchange of opinions with basically religious labels? Is it not possible to like a player without blind belief and faith? No one here is a disciple of Murray. Murray teaches nothing valuable. He just plays football. It's a game. Whoever scores the most points wins.

Just my way of expressing my disdain for the Murray fans fanaticism.If you don`t like it then don`t read it.

 

[PACardsFan]

I understand, that's your opinion & I respect it, you may very well be right. I'm saving my judgement on him until after a full season behind a good off line & with good receivers. Good play calling also, another disadvantage for him last yr as well. I'm hoping he can take us to a SB & win gosh darnit lol.

You can be absolutely right & I’m praying that I’m wrong. What really bothers me is that we were able to see so much of Josh last year & still don’t what we have with him. That’s because we had no semblance of a coaching staff whatsoever. If BA were the Coach last year, I guarantee our path in the draft would be so much clearer today.

Over the years, I’ve watched very elusive & even somewhat elusive QB’s manage to escape sure sacks against us & burn us relentlessly at critical moments in games. Other than an occasional scramble by Plummer, in all my years as a Cardinal fan (55+), we have never had that double threat. It would be so much fun in my latter years as a Cardinal fan to see someone like Murray drive our opposition crazy with his multiple gears & ability to complete almost 70% of his passes. Even if Rosen improves, he will never bring the same results that Murray will. Especially in a KK offense that will highlight his special talents. Oh well, we’ll see what happens. But, I’m already having nightmares of us chasing Murray all over the field as he single handedly beats us with his arm & legs.

 

[Krangodnzr]

You can be absolutely right & I’m praying that I’m wrong. What really bothers me is that we were able to see so much of Josh last year & still don’t what we have with him. That’s because we had no semblance of a coaching staff whatsoever. If BA were the Coach last year, I guarantee our path in the draft would be so much clearer today.

Over the years, I’ve watched very elusive & even somewhat elusive QB’s manage to escape sure sacks against us & burn us relentlessly at critical moments in games. Other than an occasional scramble by Plummer, in all my years as a Cardinal fan (55+), we have never had that double threat. It would be so much fun in my latter years as a Cardinal fan to see someone like Murray drive our opposition crazy with his multiple gears & ability to complete almost 70% of his passes. Even if Rosen improves, he will never bring the same results that Murray will. Especially in a KK offense that will highlight his special talents. Oh well, we’ll see what happens. But, I’m already having nightmares of us chasing Murray all over the field as he single handedly beats us with his arm & legs.

Yeah but pocket passers win championships in the NFL.

Rosen is much closer to the mold of a QB that wins in the NFL. That mold still holds true. Brady and Goff are much closer to Rosen as players than Murray.

 

[PACardsFan]

Yeah but pocket passers win championships in the NFL.

Rosen is much closer to the mold of a QB that wins in the NFL. That mold still holds true. Brady and Goff are much closer to Rosen as players than Murray.

John Skelton is also much closer to the mold of a QB that wins in the NFL. So what??? The NFL has changed & will continue to change. I want to be around to hear the excuses of the Murray naysayers in the next few years.

 

[Cardsfaninlouky]

You can be absolutely right & I’m praying that I’m wrong. What really bothers me is that we were able to see so much of Josh last year & still don’t what we have with him. That’s because we had no semblance of a coaching staff whatsoever. If BA were the Coach last year, I guarantee our path in the draft would be so much clearer today.

Over the years, I’ve watched very elusive & even somewhat elusive QB’s manage to escape sure sacks against us & burn us relentlessly at critical moments in games. Other than an occasional scramble by Plummer, in all my years as a Cardinal fan (55+), we have never had that double threat. It would be so much fun in my latter years as a Cardinal fan to see someone like Murray drive our opposition crazy with his multiple gears & ability to complete almost 70% of his passes. Even if Rosen improves, he will never bring the same results that Murray will. Especially in a KK offense that will highlight his special talents. Oh well, we’ll see what happens. But, I’m already having nightmares of us chasing Murray all over the field as he single handedly beats us with his arm & legs.

If they put a good enough line in front of Rosen, he won't have to run & be good at what Murray excels at lol. Rosen is more nimble than people give him credit for, I watched him escape some sure sacks last yr. He's at least Aaron Rodgers quick if not quicker?

 

[Krangodnzr]

John Skelton is also much closer to the mold of a QB that wins in the NFL. So what??? The NFL has changed & will continue to change. I want to be around to hear the excuses of the Murray naysayers in the next few years.

Tom Brady won the Super Bowl.


How has the NFL changed? It's the same game. If you win from the pocket, you won't win.

 

[Jetstream Green]

You do not win games by highlight reel scrambles and broken play passes alone, those plays only win games when you have the ability to run a consistent offense where those plays are then made possible for a win. Kurt Warner made this observation recently when talking about QBs and said when judging a QB you have to look at what are the normal circumstances of the position during a game and not the 'wow' plays... throwing from the pocket, throwing into tight windows, being instinctive with your WRs and playbook, reading a defense, doing all these things for first downs which these acts accomplish more often than not to keep a drive alive