football karma
Michael snuggles the cap space
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that would be a source of competitive advantage no team would willingly give up.
PFF Game Grades
- Thread starter BritCard
- Start date
Here's the thing though, and we already covered this.
The issue is with with the "I've seen guys" part. Because we all watch football the same way, as a form of entertainment. So we are watching where the ball is most of the time.
There 130 total snaps in the game and on each one 11 players had a job to do. That's 1450 individual tasks performed in the game and not one of us noticed more than probably 100. Let's be generous and say 150 tops. At most we saw 10% of the action and our judgement on whether someone was good or bad comes from their plays within that 10%.
Now, if you want to say that PFF is flawed because of method, quality etc then fair enough. I don't know enough to make that argument. While I understand their -2 to +2 grading system and can see it's technical merits I don't necessarily agree with it's lack of weighting.
The one thing I can never get behind is the casual fan saying "This grade does not match up to my eye test". Well, frankly, all our eyes aren't worth anything combined.
I'm never going to get on board with the idea that 3 trained analysts watching each play by each player separately is less accurate than the max 150 individual plays we see while talking, drinking, eating, tweeting and posting on ASFN.
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Chopper0080
2021 - Prove It
PFF is a point of reference. It is far from perfect and done without knowledge of assignment or scheme. To be fair to those on this board, I am sure there are many like me who can say "oh, they are running cover 6 and this should have been there". That doesn't account for players communicating in the moment or making their own adjustments on the field. That is how high level football is played. PFF also tries to be the smartest person in the room with their grading. You can reference their draft grades as an easy example of this.
For me, I like that you share this. It gives me an easy check vs what I thought I saw when watching the games and for certain players, I sometimes go back and watch to see if I missed something or if I feel their grade is just off. That said, I do tend to roll my eyes a bit with PFF grades in terms of most player debates. For fans and with the access we have, it is just near impossible to decipher between a lot of players and I feel that is the same for PFF.
For me, I like that you share this. It gives me an easy check vs what I thought I saw when watching the games and for certain players, I sometimes go back and watch to see if I missed something or if I feel their grade is just off. That said, I do tend to roll my eyes a bit with PFF grades in terms of most player debates. For fans and with the access we have, it is just near impossible to decipher between a lot of players and I feel that is the same for PFF.
The way I always look at it is this.
Did a player who graded 65 definitely play worse than a guy with 70 in a single game? Possibly not. Did he play worse than a guy with 75? Probably yes.
I don't look at them like Madden ratings. They are guides to performance, not ability. Performance is effected by many external factors.
Love them or hate them they are all that's available and they do generally tally with what everyone thinks.
The biggest lols come from those that can't get enough of PFF grades when they say the player they like played well, but say PFF sucks when they don't.
Krangodnzr
Captain of Team Conner
This.
I do look at PFF grades. If the Cardinals sign a guy who graded as a 45, the guy is probably a fringe player. If he graded at 65 or above, he might be a pretty useful player.
I actually have the cheaper subscription since they have a military discount and it's nice to read their more indepth write ups.
DeAnna
Just A Face in The Crowd
Hudson's rating does seem low. On MFF they mentioned several times how they missed Hudson at center.
I'm just glad we no longer have turtles at center - you know, flat on their back with legs up in the air
kerouac9
Klowned by Keim
100% on this. I'd rather have this than not have it (or go to Revenge of the Birds to read Walter's breakdowns).
You just scatch the surface on PFF grades and you quickly discover how problematic they are. Look at Kyler's big scramble before the pass to Rondale. Is that a good play or a bad play? If Kyler misses a first open read, then recovers and completes the pass, how does that get graded? Sometimes good process leads to bad results. The PFF methodology flattens that.
TheCardFan
Things have changed.
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Jetstream Green
Kool Aid with a touch of vodka
This, because obviously they do not get our DL tying up the middle to make the running lanes for Henry nonexistent... stats do not tell the real story
Ouchie-Z-Clown
I'm better than Mulli!
While you’re not wrong there’s power in having a collection of “yeoman guys” who are always in the right position. In fact, with the right coach that could become all you need. An example imo exists with the Patriots. Over the years they’ve had a stud here or there on defense but it’s never really been what I would call a star studded defense. I mean they cast off the Richard seymores and chandlers joneses of the world and kept on defensively. Why? Because they had the tedy bruschis , and Eugene Chung’s “yeoman guys” that bought in and played their positions.
kerouac9
Klowned by Keim
And all-pro corners.
It's better to have a balanced roster than a stars-and-scrubs approach, but every comparison that begins "Just look at the Patriots" is probably inherently flawed because you have the best QB and best HC of all time. Probably need to find a better use case.
Krangodnzr
Captain of Team Conner
Oh I want my team built with guys like that, but you also need a few Isaiah Simmons types too.
The Patriots just built a really strong core that surrounded, as @kerouac9 stated the best QB and HC of all time.
Ouchie-Z-Clown
I'm better than Mulli!
True. But even as much as a good offense impacts the defense a great QB can only do so much for a defense. I’ll grant bill is a difference maker, but he’s got to get those yeoman to buy I to his system and do their jobs to be successful. And yes they’ve had terrific corners at times throughout this era, but rarely two all pros at the same time. Mostly the guy opposite the stud was a yeoman.
Ouchie-Z-Clown
I'm better than Mulli!
I think you don’t need a few Simmons to be a solid, above average defense of youre solid yeoman across the board. But to be a great defense you need two of them.
You're not wrong. The whole Patriots dynasty is built on "Do your job" and finding guys that are not stars, or at least have not been great elsewhere, and putting them into a system where they could succeed. This is why it's always "buyer beware" on Patriot FA's.
Granted, they have always had a sprinkling of stars at skill positions too.
Ouchie-Z-Clown
I'm better than Mulli!
Yup, but even those stars they usually got “on the cheap” like Dillon & Moss. Brady and Gronk being the major exceptions.
SoonerLou
ASFN Addict
Because I want @GatorAZ to feel like a proud dad.
Christian Kirk is the 2nd best graded WR in the NFL according to PFF
www.pff.com
Christian Kirk is the 2nd best graded WR in the NFL according to PFF
NFL WR Position Grades
PFF's exclusive metrics provide Wide Receiver (WR) position rankings, grades, and snap counts.
www.pff.com
BirdGangThing
Cultist
Have to agree on the Kirk score, he was every where doing everything Mr. Intangibles style
cardsfanmd
ASFN Icon
Impossible. The squad of guys on here that know way more than Kliff and Keim said he’s trash.Because I want @GatorAZ to feel like a proud dad.
Christian Kirk is the 2nd best graded WR in the NFL according to PFF
NFL WR Position Grades
PFF's exclusive metrics provide Wide Receiver (WR) position rankings, grades, and snap counts.
GatorAZ
feed hopkins
Because I want @GatorAZ to feel like a proud dad.
Christian Kirk is the 2nd best graded WR in the NFL according to PFF
NFL WR Position Grades
PFF's exclusive metrics provide Wide Receiver (WR) position rankings, grades, and snap counts.
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Were Gator and I the only Kirk stans?
GatorAZ
feed hopkins
I would’ve traded him and third for Julio but expected a bounce back year (and contract year). I think he’ll hover around 15 ypr in this offense.
HammerCards
Veteran
I think part of the issue with Simmons and PFF is that we move him around so much. They can't possibly know his assignment every play. Just a thought is all.
Here's my biggest problem with PFF.
I've mentioned before how it's not weighted for situation, but actually it's biggest issue is that it's not weighted for difficulty.
PFF are simply rating if you did your job or not, not how difficult that job was.
So for example, a center that just tasked with power blocking a nose tackle all game can quite easily get a high rating. They are being tasked with a fairly basic job and if they do that job then PFF give them their points.
Another center for another team might be tasked with a bunch of reach blocks, pulls, or asked to get down field for run blocking. A much more complex range of tasks for which they are less likely to succeed.
Center A might have a 75 grade and Center B might only have 55. That doesn't mean A is a better player, it could mean B was given a much harder role that's more likely to have some failures.
A simpler example might be at QB. Where someone like Cousins (7.3 YPA) throwing a bunch of 6 yard checkdowns can outscore Kyler who with a 10.1 YPA is throwing much higher risk and difficulty passes.
I've mentioned before how it's not weighted for situation, but actually it's biggest issue is that it's not weighted for difficulty.
PFF are simply rating if you did your job or not, not how difficult that job was.
So for example, a center that just tasked with power blocking a nose tackle all game can quite easily get a high rating. They are being tasked with a fairly basic job and if they do that job then PFF give them their points.
Another center for another team might be tasked with a bunch of reach blocks, pulls, or asked to get down field for run blocking. A much more complex range of tasks for which they are less likely to succeed.
Center A might have a 75 grade and Center B might only have 55. That doesn't mean A is a better player, it could mean B was given a much harder role that's more likely to have some failures.
A simpler example might be at QB. Where someone like Cousins (7.3 YPA) throwing a bunch of 6 yard checkdowns can outscore Kyler who with a 10.1 YPA is throwing much higher risk and difficulty passes.
