PFT: Cardinals housecleaning this off season?

[CtCardinals78]

The national talk of Graves and/or Whisenhunt's departure this offseason has begun. Yes, they took the Cardinals to the Super Bowl, but this team has been horribly mismanaged since then.


http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/11/25/cardinals-struggles-could-trigger-a-house-cleaning/

 

[kerouac9]

I think that Dan Bickley is a boob, but there's a lot to like about this single-sourced editoral from him:

Todd Haley and Warner shaped the offense together. They talked nightly. They designed plays that made sense to Warner, fitting his eye...

Yet over the years, Whisenhunt believed that he and his staff did as much for Warner as the quarterback did for them. True, they gave him the opportunity, a fair shake to dethrone Matt Leinart. They demanded and received better ball security. They deserve a slice of credit in Warner’s last stand, an improbable run in the desert that’ll eventually take him to the Hall of Fame.

But this coaching staff overvalues their contributions. They won mostly because Warner was a great player, an intelligent player, a quarterback who pushed and prodded for plays that made him feel comfortable on Sunday afternoon.

 

[Mitch]

Could someone do us non-subscription out-of-towners a favor and post Bickley's article...the link doesn't work because it just reverts to the subscription page.

That or---could you paraphrase some of Bickley's more salient points.

Thanks to whomever does us the favor. Much appreciated.

 

[football karma]

Could someone do us non-subscription out-of-towners a favor and post Bickley's article...the link doesn't work because it just reverts to the subscription page.

That or---could you paraphrase some of Bickley's more salient points.

Thanks to whomever does us the favor. Much appreciated.

Bickley chatted with Warner

Warner noted that he doesn't think the offense is being tailored enough to what each QB does well

Kurt noted that he shaped the offense so that it fit how he "saw" things

Bickley chronicled the Warner / Haley dynamic during 2008 -- hit Whis for passing on the chance to add Haley this offseason.

FWIW: some of the Warner stuff coming from Kurt seemed to me to be a bit self serving / self congratulatory.

 

[az jam]

House cleaning needs to start with Graves. Until the Bidwills bring in a real football guy to run the organization they will continue to have subpar seasons.

 

[b8rtm8nn]

Yes, they took the Cardinals to the Super Bowl, but this team has been horribly mismanaged since then.

I wouldn't go with horribly mismanaged, our defense has improve, our special teams has been solid or better with Spencer, drafts have been improving over time...really - our coaching of the offense and the QB/OLine personnel has been terrible. I don't think anyone reasonably believe that Graves or Whiz is going anywhere this offseason unless everything falls apart the next 6 games. If we don't see some coaching changes on the offense this offseason, then next year will likely be Whiz's last

 

[SoCal Cardfan]

I have been saying for years that Whis rode Warner's coattail.. the few that disagree need only look at our post Warner records... Whiz's recent lack of being in the win column, comes while the defense is nothing short of amazing.

 

[CFLredzoned]

House cleaning needs to start with Graves. Until the Bidwills bring in a real football guy to run the organization they will continue to have subpar seasons.

For that to happen, it's going to be 2014. For now, all personnel decisions go thru Whiz. It's in his contract. I can't see Whiz firing anybody. So if Mike B wants to see a new OC, he'll probably have to fire Whiz and eat the 5.5 mil. I can't see that happening either. So yeah, we're screwed next year.

 

[football karma]

Of note, the PFT post seems to be directly inspired by the Bickley column, so it's not like the PFT people know anything more than what we all read in the AZ Rep

That being said: something flipped post Atlanta

Both KTAR shows openly talked about coaching / FO changes ( including Wolfley) Somers has addressed it directly in print, even speculating on the internal replacements for Graves. Urban has also acknowledged it.

Prior to Atlanta, the idea of Whis / Graves going anywhere this offseason was routinely dismissed out of hand by media types close to the organization. Now- they talk about the possibility.

Media types talk "on background" and "off the record" all the time to knowledgable sources and they get information that they can't ethically source in print (I.e. "Cardinal official says Mike B is considering FO changes"). -- but that information finds its way into stories as their opinion.

My take is that something has changed inside the building over at Hardy and Warner.

 

[CtCardinals78]

Of note, the PFT post seems to be directly inspired by the Bickley column, so it's not like the PFT people know anything more than what we all read in the AZ Rep

That being said: something flipped post Atlanta

Both KTAR shows openly talked about coaching / FO changes ( including Wolfley) Somers has addressed it directly in print, even speculating on the internal replacements for Graves. Urban has also acknowledged it.

Prior to Atlanta, the idea of Whis / Graves going anywhere this offseason was routinely dismissed out of hand by media types close to the organization. Now- they talk about the possibility.

Media types talk "on background" and "off the record" all the time to knowledgable sources and they get information that they can't ethically source in print (I.e. "Cardinal official says Mike B is considering FO changes"). -- but that information finds its way into stories as their opinion.

My take is that something has changed inside the building over at Hardy and Warner.

If they were going to do it, it's best to do it this offseason and eat the $5.5 mil for a couple of reasons.

1) You don't want this regime drafting a QB and then fire him next offseason and have the next HC stuck with a QB he doesn't want

2)There are going to be a lot of very good coaching candidates available in the next 30-45 days.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

If they were going to do it, it's best to do it this offseason and eat the $5.5 mil for a couple of reasons.

1) You don't want this regime drafting a QB and then fire him next offseason and have the next HC stuck with a QB he doesn't want

2)There are going to be a lot of very good coaching candidates available in the next 30-45 days.

Other than from the College ranks, they are guys that other fan bases believe should be fired.

 

[Superfuzz]

why does everyone think the Cardinals date to 1920?

 

[Snakester]

why does everyone think the Cardinals date to 1920?

I don't know. They date back to the 1890's from what I remember. They are the oldest football team in America by far.

 

[Snakester]

I would like to see a whole new coaching staff except for the DC. Michael Bidwill needs to step up to the plate and take care of this teams weaknesses. We have needed O-linemen, Passrushers and QB's for some time now. If the coach and GM are not smart enough to get some then Bidwill needs to step in and do something.

 

[Duckjake]

why does everyone think the Cardinals date to 1920?

That's the year the Racine (Chicago) Cardinals joined the league that eventually became the NFL.

But the team can trace its history back to the Morgan Athletic Club in the 1890s.

 

[Seandonic]

The Cardinals don't need to clean house. They just need to fire Graves, fire Miller, and get a couple more good offensive linemen.

 

[Jetstream Green]

why does everyone think the Cardinals date to 1920?

The Cardinals are the oldest professional football team. BUT they were not part of the professional football league which is now the NFL till the year 1920.

 

[100%CardsFan]

I believe they wore their 100 year anniversary patch in 1997/1998

 

[187]

The Cardinals don't need to clean house. They just need to fire Graves, fire Miller, and get a couple more good offensive linemen.

I pretty much after with this gameplan.

 

[CtCardinals78]

Well, that seat just got a little bit warmer...

 

[Superfuzz]

The Cardinals are the oldest professional football team. BUT they were not part of the professional football league which is now the NFL till the year 1920.

I see what youre saying but thats still the incorrect way to express that. The cardinals joined prior to the NFL's first year, 1920. The packers, who were founded in 1919 are frequently referred to as having JOINED the league in 1920 but founded earlier in 1919 (and often erroneously claimed to be the oldest team in the league.) The Cardinals are frequently referred to as being FOUNDED in 1920, which is incorrect.

Say one of the CFL teams that dates back to the early 1890s or 1880s joins the NFL next year. They would automaticallu become 'the oldest franchise in the league' even in their first season. See what i'm saying?

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

The Cardinals don't need to clean house. They just need to fire Graves, fire Miller, and get a couple more good offensive linemen.

Agree. But I don't even think Miller needs to go.

 

[az1965]

The Cardinals are the oldest professional football team. BUT they were not part of the professional football league which is now the NFL till the year 1920.

Nothing about Cardinals football appear to be professional.

 

[CHAPTER 7]

I think this house cleaning is for any sane people's thought and action by looking at this current situation. But somehow...it won't happen. Probably have more chance Graves being promoted! LOL (so sad).

 

[Crazy Canuck]

The Cardinals don't need to clean house. They just need to fire Graves, fire Miller, and get a couple more good offensive linemen.

Given that KEIM/LICHT, in the last round of realocating responsibilities, are now de facto in charge of the talent side of football operations, this fixation by some on Graves is rather pointless (IMO).