PFT on Kliff

[football karma]

I wouldn't call that Mesh. That was just a deep crossing route which is hardly new or revolutionary to the NFL.

if its a deep cross, then is just another route FO says Kliff doesnt use

my objection is that FO (who i like) says the offense doesnt use certain routes, and a quick 5 minute perusal of video highlights shows them using those routes (even if K1 doesnt throw the ball to that WR).

if the argument is - "uses much less than NFL average", thats different

 

[BritCard]

I see plenty of evidence that Murray struggles with the simple parts of QB craft....and I say this as one of Murray's biggest fans on this board!

Any Cardinals game over the past few years you watch, you'll see TONS of missed reads, Murray checking down when an open receiver streaks down the field. To discount this to blame Kliff is maddening.

Murray will get better though; he just severely lacks experience. His experience curve is where a senior in college or rookie QB is now in terms of games played.

The tempo thing really explains why Kliff doesn't run more motion in his offense.

Absolutely. I've done several threads on this breaking down film where Murray just doesn't see easy NFL throws. So I agree.

But also Kliff's scheme really doesn't help.

 

[BritCard]

if its a deep cross, then is just another route FO says Kliff doesnt use

my objection is that FO (who i like) says the offense doesnt use certain routes, and a quick 5 minute perusal of video highlights shows them using those routes (even if K1 doesnt throw the ball to that WR).

if the argument is - "uses much less than NFL average", thats different

I assume they mean they don't use those routes in any meaningful measurable way. That the percentage is so small as to not register on the tree.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Absolutely. I've done several threads on this breaking down film where Murray just doesn't see easy NFL throws. So I agree.

But also Kliff's scheme really doesn't help.

But here's the thing. There are plenty of open throws Murray isn't making!

That means Kliffs scheme IS getting people open...

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Recruiting isn't just about the coach though. We've seen numerous successful coaches at one stop struggle at the next because of being in a place like Lubbock.

It's just not relevant to NFL football and even someone with dementia should be able to understand that was the primary reason Kliff didn't win there. And yet the negative Nancys keep parroting this narrative that it was something more than that.

How to explain the success of others at the school?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Let me help you out here, shall I? Let's say Kliff had more interest in recruiting and let's say that we are able to affirm that he also had great recruiting skills just for shrills and giggles in a censored Austin Power's kind of way. Guess what? He still would be scraping the bottle of the barrel recruiting because he represents freaking Texas Tech. You really really really think any kid in Texas or anywhere for that matter is going to choose Texas Tech over say Texas, Oklahoma, Texas A&M, LSU, Alabama or even Colorado St. for example if they are a high recruit. Kliff had ultimately bad recruits because of the program he coached did not have the legacy or prestige to garner better talent. I also doubt but could be wrong that you and Solar possibly never even watched a full Texas Tech game (just like most recruits) to say you see the same guy because you are only looking at stats

And yet truly good coaches seem to overcome poor recruiting and locations that traditionally have difficulty recruiting. How does that happen? Here’s a clue . . . coaching. To not have a winning record and make it to the nfl is really something else. To argue otherwise is just being obtuse.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Forest for the trees bro.

The Cowboys played 6 games against the NFC East.

McCarthy's entire career was built on the greatness of Aaron Rodgers and Brett Favre. Look at what Rodgers thought of McCarthy. Look at what the Cowboys players thought of McCarthy.

I find it a little funny that your previous post waked if you’ve got bad talent and *** coaching how could you be 8-8? And then you answered it in this post - an outstanding talent makes up for lack of talent and coaching. If this squad is around .500 again this year I think we have a lack of talent, a bad coach, and a really talented QB dragging to all along.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

NOPE don't buy that average talent and a bad head coach will get you 8-8 in nearly any situation. Still doesn't fully make sense at all.

Kyler is a MASSIVE liability throwing the ball 10-18 yards down the field, which is the bread and butter range for nearly every offense. Teams began squatting the short zones and pressuring Kyler so he couldn't throw deep. That's one of the main reasons the Cardinals struggled down the stretch. So the concept that Kyler will drag this team isn't quite true at all, he was one of the main reasons the team struggled.

Outside of CB, this team looks like it doesn't have too many holes so this year Kliff can't make excuses if his scheme isn't working. He doesn't have slug footed Larry Fitzgerald missing blocks constantly for bubble screens. He doesn't have Mason Cole getting blown up play after play. This is the season to really judge Kliff.

This post completely ignores that kyler passes well enough, that combined with his rushing he’s impossible to deal with. And when his rushing faltered the coaches couldn’t compensate for it and the talent was good enough to pick up around him. The difference between beginning of season and end of season? Kyler running.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I am glad I was not drinking anything when I read that... if you do not see the massive illogical citing of those schools and who Tech then has to play there is nothing I can say lol

Last I heard Vanderbilt was still in that scrub league the SEC.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I feel it is 100% ok to acknowledge that Kyler's inexperience and learning have limited what this offense can do. I can't say how much, but it has. To be fair to Kyler, this is normal for a young and inexperienced QB. He is just not prepared to recognize how he needs to adjust his game to win each unique game. He also doesn't have enough experience at reading high level defenses to adjust into or out of the right plays. Those things come with time.

I think you can concurrently admit that and recognize he wasn’t the primary driver for why this team missed the playoffs.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

May be. You don't know what you got until it is gone. My only complaint on Arians was his attachment to Amos Jones.

That was my primary problem with arians. And I freely admit I allowed it to color my view of him overly much. I was wrong in wanting him wrong. It’s rare, but it happens and I’ll always own it when it happens.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Yep. This is what the Darksiders in this thread are missing. When Kyler can't run, his limitations really hurt this team. If Kyler was better at just hitting mid range passes, this team likely wins 2-3 more games.

It's ridiculous that Kliff isn't getting at least some benefit of the doubt here. He absolutely HAS TO limit his offense because of Kylers deficiencies.

I see it just the opposite. He’s failed to maximize what he has in kyler and instead has been the beneficiary of kyler being physically talented enough to drag him to .500.

 

[Krangodnzr]

This post completely ignores that kyler passes well enough, that combined with his rushing he’s impossible to deal with. And when his rushing faltered the coaches couldn’t compensate for it and the talent was good enough to pick up around him. The difference between beginning of season and end of season? Kyler running.

But he DOESNT pass well enough. When he can run, it masks his deficiency.

This isn't an opinion. He was bottom 5 passing 10-18 yards down the field.

Teams figured out that they can defend the first 0-9 yards and put some pressure so that he doesn't have time to let things develop down the field and Kyler couldn't beat it.

 

[Krangodnzr]

And yet truly good coaches seem to overcome poor recruiting and locations that traditionally have difficulty recruiting. How does that happen? Here’s a clue . . . coaching. To not have a winning record and make it to the nfl is really something else. To argue otherwise is just being obtuse.

His primary strength, offensive coaching...he was top 10 in the nation every year he led an offense.

I don't know why this is so hard for some of you to understand. He had beyond pitiful defenses. I would be concerned if Kingsbury coached defense, but he doesn't.

 

[Stout]

His primary strength, offensive coaching...he was top 10 in the nation every year he led an offense.

I don't know why this is so hard for some of you to understand. He had beyond pitiful defenses. I would be concerned if Kingsbury coached defense, but he doesn't.

Great, since he's only our offensive coordinator, we're all good. Wait...

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

That's not where the bump came from.

DVOA would be NEGATIVELY impacted from feasting on bad offenses. That's the point of it.

You’re forgetting a crucial step there. We did better against those bad offenses than did other defenses. And a LOT of those other defenses we are compared to are NFC East teams. So in other words we performed better against bad offenses than did the defensive dregs of the league. Awesome. Not-so-much.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

The new FO annual came out yesterday, and they absolutely LIT into Kliff.

This is also a great example of why our rushing stats were misleading. When kyler stopped running we couldn’t impose our will running the ball despite what was detailed above - seeing 2 men defensive lines playing off. We were not really a good rushing offense.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

His primary strength, offensive coaching...he was top 10 in the nation every year he led an offense.

I don't know why this is so hard for some of you to understand. He had beyond pitiful defenses. I would be concerned if Kingsbury coached defense, but he doesn't.

No he doesn’t. He’s HEAD coach. That means he’s ultimately responsible for the performance of the entire team. All three phases. And ignoring the defense at Tech is just evidence of his lack of attention to something very important that falls on his shoulders. Just I said originally.

 

[kerouac9]

No he doesn’t. He’s HEAD coach. That means he’s ultimately responsible for the performance of the entire team. All three phases. And ignoring the defense at Tech is just evidence of his lack of attention to something very important that falls on his shoulders. Just I said originally.

FWIW, being a successful college head coach is about recruiting, dealing with boosters, managing a coaching staff and more.

Bring a successful pro head coach is basically managing a coaching staff and game day stuff. Kliff has been given and take on additional responsibilities as the play caller and quarterback coach. Promising that is how he got the job, but that’s more Keims fault than Kliff, IMO.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

FWIW, being a successful college head coach is about recruiting, dealing with boosters, managing a coaching staff and more.

Bring a successful pro head coach is basically managing a coaching staff and game day stuff. Kliff has been given and take on additional responsibilities as the play caller and quarterback coach. Promising that is how he got the job, but that’s more Keims fault than Kliff, IMO.

Absolutely different responsibilities. But that’s the key, responsibilities. Failing at one (or more) responsibilities at the college level is still a failure. It may not translate responsibility-to-responsibility but it’s certainly indicative of an individual who perhaps isn’t well-suited to be the main man.

 

[BritCard]

FWIW, being a successful college head coach is about recruiting, dealing with boosters, managing a coaching staff and more.

Bring a successful pro head coach is basically managing a coaching staff and game day stuff. Kliff has been given and take on additional responsibilities as the play caller and quarterback coach. Promising that is how he got the job, but that’s more Keims fault than Kliff, IMO.

All this shows is in college he was poor at all his responsibilities except offensive coaching and in the NFL he's poor at all his responsibilities except offensive coaching.

Almost as if there is a pattern where he phones it in on everything except the stuff he likes doing.

 

[cardpa]

His primary strength, offensive coaching...he was top 10 in the nation every year he led an offense.

I don't know why this is so hard for some of you to understand. He had beyond pitiful defenses. I would be concerned if Kingsbury coached defense, but he doesn't.

Which area do you think KK fits in?
https://www.nfl.com/news/the-dos-and-don-ts-of-hiring-a-head-coach-in-the-nfl-0ap3000000772483

 

[JeffGollin]

But he DOESNT pass well enough. When he can run, it masks his deficiency.

This isn't an opinion. He was bottom 5 passing 10-18 yards down the field.

Teams figured out that they can defend the first 0-9 yards and put some pressure so that he doesn't have time to let things develop down the field and Kyler couldn't beat it.

Was the problem "play-calling?" Or was it "inconsistent execution?"

I think our problems converting 3rd downs stemmed mostly from plays poorly carried out.

 

[kerouac9]

Absolutely different responsibilities. But that’s the key, responsibilities. Failing at one (or more) responsibilities at the college level is still a failure. It may not translate responsibility-to-responsibility but it’s certainly indicative of an individual who perhaps isn’t well-suited to be the main man.

All this shows is in college he was poor at all his responsibilities except offensive coaching and in the NFL he's poor at all his responsibilities except offensive coaching.

Almost as if there is a pattern where he phones it in on everything except the stuff he likes doing.

Yeah. It's been interesting listening to the just-completed season of Flying Coach with Sean McVay. The guys who have been super-successful (like McVay and Shanahan) have been embedded in the coaching process forever.

Sean McVay was an offensive assistant in Tampa Bay in 2008. He spent six years moving up the ranks in Washington, taking on more and more responsibilities.

Kliff was an OC two years into his coaching career. I just don't think he really knows what the job is, and it's probably pretty frustrating for guys on the staff that have been working their way up.

 

[BritCard]

Yeah. It's been interesting listening to the just-completed season of Flying Coach with Sean McVay. The guys who have been super-successful (like McVay and Shanahan) have been embedded in the coaching process forever.

Sean McVay was an offensive assistant in Tampa Bay in 2008. He spent six years moving up the ranks in Washington, taking on more and more responsibilities.

Kliff was an OC two years into his coaching career. I just don't think he really knows what the job is, and it's probably pretty frustrating for guys on the staff that have been working their way up.

This may very well be spot on. He simply doesn't have the experience to know what he doesn't know so clings feverishly to what he does know. Drawing up plays and playing QB coach.

(I would add Matt LeFleur to this list of young HC's that did their time in the NFL before becoming a HC. He's done a good job at GB)