Phailure..... with an "F"

[az1965]

Warner only has two years left also.....so we aren't worried.

Warner has only one year after this season... but Leinart >>>>> Smith

 

[Russ Smith]

They ran out of the shotgun/spread with Hill more than they did with Alex.
Sando pointed it out a couple of weeks ago......

So you're saying the 49ers ran the spread offense more with Hill than Smith?

Then why did members of the offense have to go to Singletary and tell him they wanted to run the spread offense more because they felt they were more effective in it? If they were already doing it so much when Hill was the QB why bother and go to the HC?

Shotgun and spread are not the same thing.

I will give Singletary this, he already realized the mistake he made, he came out today and publicly apologized to Alex Smith for going after him like that. He realized that if he didn't do it quickly, it was going to make it very tough to convince the team Smith is his guy for the future.

 

[Russ Smith]

Ah, yes here it is.....

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcwest/post/_/id/10004/separating-fact-from-fiction-on-49ers

Sure but again, shotgun and spread are not the same thing.

They went to the spread offense at the request of several members of the offense because Smith runs it better. There's nothing wrong with that if you're convinced that's your guy and the coach is ok with it. I don't know if that's the case with SF and Singletary.

We went through some of that here with Whiz wanting to run more and Warner wanting to throw more. Whiz and Haley were smart enough to recognize a good thing when they saw it and rode Warner all the way to the Superbowl. But if you notice this year with Haley gone and Warner a year older the Cards have become much more balanced running the ball this year, in large part because the coach also realizes Warner can't play forever and the team needs to be more balanced for when Warner retires.

I get the impression that Singletary was never really happy with that new offense but went with it because he realized Smith couldn't excel in the offense he wanted to run.

I do think with Crabtree having a full camp next year the 49ers offense will change anyways as they begin to try and make full use of him and Davis.

Smith will be back next year but I'm not convinced they believe in him.

 

[Russ Smith]

As Ive told posts who rip the Niners and singletary, I like,ans believe he's done well. His style WILL work because its genuine, and he's got the Cards # right now. We need to pick up our Beanie Game, and change up our defense somewhat to beat them, outexecute them...

We haven't had any problems at all with our defense against them, it's been their defense that has been the problem. They double Fitz, take away the deeper routes and dare Kurt to throw underneath. The first time around he did over and over to Hightower and it worked because with Boldin on one leg and Breaston out, they were able to handle the underneath.

The second time around Kurt didn't take the underneath stuff, he forced the ball because Boldin was healthy and Breaston was there and rather than take what was there, RB, TE and the under stuff to WR's, he forced throws downfield.

We still would have won if not for all the fumbles, they are a hard hitting defense, we ran the ball well against them but they caused a bunch of fumbles. The scheme worked because they forced so many turnovers but it was still a winnable game until Beanie's fumble. You give us 7 turnovers against them we'll put 40 or 50 points up on them, we're a much better offense than they are.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Why is it so hard for Niner fans to admit their QB stinks? Smith has shown nothing, ever, to make anyone think he's a legit NFL starting QB. While on here, we're ready to cut Warner after a bad half and want Leinart in. Then, after two incomplete passes, we want Leinart out of here. I think at one time or another, we've had the entire team cut and coaching staff fired .

 

[Duckjake]

We haven't had any problems at all with our defense against them, it's been their defense that has been the problem. They double Fitz, take away the deeper routes and dare Kurt to throw underneath. The first time around he did over and over to Hightower and it worked because with Boldin on one leg and Breaston out, they were able to handle the underneath.

The second time around Kurt didn't take the underneath stuff, he forced the ball because Boldin was healthy and Breaston was there and rather than take what was there, RB, TE and the under stuff to WR's, he forced throws downfield.

We still would have won if not for all the fumbles, they are a hard hitting defense, we ran the ball well against them but they caused a bunch of fumbles. The scheme worked because they forced so many turnovers but it was still a winnable game until Beanie's fumble. You give us 7 turnovers against them we'll put 40 or 50 points up on them, we're a much better offense than they are.

You have to give them credit for making an adjustment in their pass defense against the Cards in the Monday night game as in the two previous games against SF Warner was a combined 58-86 for 616 yards and 4 TDs.

 

[Russ Smith]

Just FYI, for the year 49.7% of Hill's Pass Attempts came from the shotgun, 58% of Smith's came from the shotgun.

Smith as a passer is more comfortable in the spread and the spread includes the shotgun.

 

[Ronin]

Warner has only one year after this season... but Leinart >>>>> Smith

 

[Ronin]

They went to the spread offense at the request of several members of the offense because Smith runs it better.

Question? who was exactly playing good in the I-Formation, it wasn't the O-line or Frank Gore.
They didn't change it because Smith runs it better....

 

[Ronin]

Shotgun and spread are not the same thing.

Sure but again, shotgun and spread are not the same thing.

Smith as a passer is more comfortable in the spread and the spread includes the shotgun.

I'm totally confused.

 

[az1965]

You can laugh at Smith as much as you want , but give it to him, he is still trying hard to jerk away the colossal BUST label pasted firmly on him. The only reason he is even playing for you guys is because there is absolutely no one else even slightly decent to play QB... best of the worst.

 

[Ronin]

You can laugh at Leinart as much as you want ,

I do, I can't wait till Leinart is the starter.

 

[Fitz Rulz]

Without improving your team, it doesn't matter how Cards are. You have 2 game lead over us this year but you'll finish 8-8 (thanks to 5-1 divion record). It's not like Cards with Lienart will make you champions once again!

 

[Russ Smith]

I'm totally confused.

Apparently you never had a math teacher tell you a square is a rhombus but a rhombus isn't a square? Definition of rhombus is 4 sides, all equal in length, so both a rhombus and a square fit it. Definition of square is 4 sides, all equal in length AND 4 90 degree angles. So a square is a Rhombus, but a rhombus isn't a square because it doesn't have the 90 degree angles.

The spread formation is usually run from the shotgun, but because you are in the shotgun does NOT mean you are in the spread.

The spread essentially came from the run and shoot, essentially the spread is 4 WR's and no TE. Now you can have TE's on the field, the 49ers often do, but they don't always line up as a TE they line up as a WR(like you see with Vernon Davis all the time). The spread can be run from the shotgun or under center but more often than not is run from the shotgun. You can run the shotgun with 4 WR's, 3 WR's, 2 Wr's etc. Teams often run the shotgun with split backs behind them too, that's not really the spread.

Smith ran it in college at Utah. I don't know why he prefers it but he does, they didn't use the spread that much with Hill they weren't in a lot of 4WR sets. It's not just 4WR's there's things like the wider splits between the OL's etc. Generally speaking it's harder to run from the spread although if you get the defense playing the pass you can cross them up with draws etc.


When Smith came in off the bench in his first game this year they were in the spread quite a bit and he did quite well. The next couple of games he was much more effective in the spread. So he and several teammates went to Singletary(OC first then Mike) and said we want to run the spread more.

 

[Renz]

Apparently you never had a math teacher tell you a square is a rhombus but a rhombus isn't a square? Definition of rhombus is 4 sides, all equal in length, so both a rhombus and a square fit it. Definition of square is 4 sides, all equal in length AND 4 90 degree angles. So a square is a Rhombus, but a rhombus isn't a square because it doesn't have the 90 degree angles.

The spread formation is usually run from the shotgun, but because you are in the shotgun does NOT mean you are in the spread.

The spread essentially came from the run and shoot, essentially the spread is 4 WR's and no TE. Now you can have TE's on the field, the 49ers often do, but they don't always line up as a TE they line up as a WR(like you see with Vernon Davis all the time). The spread can be run from the shotgun or under center but more often than not is run from the shotgun. You can run the shotgun with 4 WR's, 3 WR's, 2 Wr's etc. Teams often run the shotgun with split backs behind them too, that's not really the spread.

Smith ran it in college at Utah. I don't know why he prefers it but he does, they didn't use the spread that much with Hill they weren't in a lot of 4WR sets. It's not just 4WR's there's things like the wider splits between the OL's etc. Generally speaking it's harder to run from the spread although if you get the defense playing the pass you can cross them up with draws etc.


When Smith came in off the bench in his first game this year they were in the spread quite a bit and he did quite well. The next couple of games he was much more effective in the spread. So he and several teammates went to Singletary(OC first then Mike) and said we want to run the spread more.

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[az1965]

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Now this bird should be red

 

[Ronin]

Without improving your team, it doesn't matter how Cards are.

exactly.

It's not like Cards with Lienart will make you champions once again!

no, but it would help our chances.

 

[Ronin]

Apparently you never had a math teacher tell you a square is a rhombus but a rhombus isn't a square? Definition of rhombus is 4 sides, all equal in length, so both a rhombus and a square fit it. Definition of square is 4 sides, all equal in length AND 4 90 degree angles. So a square is a Rhombus, but a rhombus isn't a square because it doesn't have the 90 degree angles.

Nope, furthest math I did was business calc...but i never payed attention. I don't do math.

Smith ran it in college at Utah.

It's the Same system that Tim Tebow is running in Florida

I don't know why he prefers it but he does

Maybe because that the system that he learned under Urban Myer.

Generally speaking it's harder to run from the spread although if you get the defense playing the pass you can cross them up with draws etc.

and this why Steve Young suggested the 49ers trade Frank Gore.

 

[Ronin]

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Ah, the board cheerleader decides to chime in...Have anything to add or do you still think Smith started the season for the 49ers?

 

[Fitz Rulz]

exactly.

no, but it would help our chances.

You get your chances by winning games not other teams losing

tell me how if you only managed to win 3 games only outside the division!
was warner playing against you in the other 10 games ?

Lienart is not that bad. Once, he gets same games as Smith, he could be better than Smith actually. Just the argument that you think winning the division once Warner is out with 8-8 or 7-9 record is funny.

your record outside NFC West
2009 (assuming u beat Lions) 3-7 even worse than last year
2008 4-6
2007 2-8
2006 4-6
2005 2-8
2004 0-10

 

[Ronin]

You get your chances by winning games not other teams losing


tell me how if you only managed to win 3 games only outside the division!
was warner playing against you in the other 10 games ?

This was Singletary first season as a headcoach......much of the losses were due to lack of preparation.
Plus Shaun Hill was leading the offense,the o-line couldn't block (run or pass).

Lienart is not that bad.

He is not that good either. IMHO

Once, he gets same games as Smith, he could be better than Smith actually.

Or he could be a lot worse....

Just the argument that you think winning the division once Warner is out with 8-8 or 7-9 record is funny.

Not really, you still need a quarterback.IMHO

your record outside NFC West
2009 (assuming u beat Lions) 3-7 even worse than last year (Rookie Headcoach)
2008 4-6 No Headcoach + minimal talent
2007 2-8 No Headcoach + minimal talent
2006 4-6 No Headcoach + minimal talent
2005 2-8 No Headcoach + minimal talent
2004 0-10 No headcoach + no talent

[/QUOTE]
Helped you out on that one....see the trend.
The coaching and the talent.

 

[az1965]

your record outside NFC West
2009 (assuming u beat Lions) 3-7 even worse than last year No Headcoach + No QB + mimimal talent
2008 4-6 No Headcoach + minimal talent
2007 2-8 No Headcoach + minimal talent
2006 4-6 No Headcoach + minimal talent
2005 2-8 No Headcoach + minimal talent
2004 0-10 No headcoach + no talent

FTFY

 

[Ronin]

FTFY

Thanks.

 

[Russ Smith]

This was Singletary first season as a headcoach......much of the losses were due to lack of preparation.
Plus Shaun Hill was leading the offense,the o-line couldn't block (run or pass).

Helped you out on that one....see the trend.
The coaching and the talent.[/QUOTE]

Well the problem is the 49ers record with Hill as the starter was better than the record with Smith as the starter.

now part of that was sheer luck, Cards had a banged up Boldin and no Breaston in the opener, Rams and Seattle were both decimated by injuries first time around etc.

But for whatever reason the offense was more exciting and more fun to watch under Smith but the team record was actually worse.


Smith this year exhibited 2 traits that are killers for a starting QB,
1) his worst performance by far was in the first quarter(Passer rating 50.9). His next worst performance was the 4th quarter(75.3). Good teams get off to good starts and get the lead generally.

2) In the 4th quarter in games of margin 7 points or less, in other words close games, his rating was 36.9, no TD's, 3 picks 53.8 completion. So one of the mantras of 49ers this year is we lost a lot of close games so next year we'll win those. But the guy they're saying is their QB is a big part of why they lost those close games, because in close games late, he played his worst.

I've said from day 1 they should have taken Rodgers. Smith has had his moments but it's crystal clear to me that had they taken Rodgers things would have been different. You can say Smith has had too many different OC's and that's true, but QB's like Smith get OC's fired. Saw it here for years with Plummer, there's enough talent there to make you think he can do it but you wind up having to tailor the system to suit him even if it doesn't suit what you want to run and have drafted for. Alex was in a tough spot for sure playing right away on a bad team.

Rodgers got to sit, but I don't think it can be underestimated how tough it was for anybody to be the guy who replaced Favre in Green Bay. From what I've seen of Smith he would have been overwhelmed in that situation. That pick IMHO is the whole reason the 49ers have struggled the last few years, they made the wrong pick. Here they are now in a team they've been trying to build to run the ball and they have a QB who can only function in a spread offense?

 

[Ronin]

Helped you out on that one....see the trend.
The coaching and the talent.

Well the problem is the 49ers record with Hill as the starter was better than the record with Smith as the starter.

The problem with Hill's W-L record is that it is fool's gold...Alex has chance to get garbage wins in the next couple of weeks...just like Hill.

now part of that was sheer luck, Cards had a banged up Boldin and no Breaston in the opener, Rams and Seattle were both decimated by injuries first time around etc.

Luck? There was no luck.
You think that Hill won those games against the Rams and the Seahawks?

But for whatever reason the offense was more exciting and more fun to watch

Because Alex could make the throws that Shaun Hill couldn't make. The 49ers became a more pass-orientated offense.

under Smith but the team record was actually worse.

Yes.

I've said from day 1 they should have taken Rodgers. Smith has had his moments but it's crystal clear to me that had they taken Rodgers things would have been different.

Rodgers, huh? You don't think that the 49ers mishandled Smith? How would've the 49ers selecting Rodgers been any different

Alex was in a tough spot for sure playing right away on a bad team.

and Rodgers would've succeed how? who would've been his receivers or line-men?

Rodgers got to sit,

and Alex should have sit also....

That pick IMHO is the whole reason the 49ers have struggled the last few years,

Alex has only played three years.....the 49ers struggles go much deeper than Alex Smith.

they made the wrong pick.

There was no clear #1 pick, they tried to trade down, but we know how that story goes.

Here they are now in a team they've been trying to build to run the ball and they have a QB who can only function in a spread offense?

Only function in the Spread? Did the 49ers run the Spread under Norv Turner?