PHO/MEM proposal

[elindholm]

Phoenix gets
Pau Gasol ($13.7 million in 2007-08, expires 2011)
Mike Miller (8.3, 2010)
Damon Stoudamire (4.4, 2009)

Memphis gets
Amare Stoudemire (13.3, 2011)
Boris Diaw (9.0, 2012)
Marcus Banks (3.9, 2011)

 

[mr_sunshine]

Why?

 

[Folster]

Phoenix gets:
Pau Gasol
one of the following: Mike Miller/Hakim Warrick/Rudy Gay
filler if needed

Memphis gets:
Amare Stoudemire
Boris Diaw

or

Phoenix gets:
Pau Gasol
and the #4

Memphis gets:
Amare Stoudemire

 

[slinslin]

I like this better...

Shawn Marion
Marcus Banks
Boris Diaw
James Jones
(Marc I.)

for

Mike Miller
Stromile Swift
Damon Stoudamire
Hakim Warrick

Without Diaw it works under the cap but I guess Memphis is under the cap to make this work.

Add picks for some balance changes if you like..

Memphis:

Gasol
Diaw/Johnson
Marion/Gay/Jones
Brewer/Jones
Lowry/Banks/Kinsey

Phoenix
Swift/Thomas
Amare/Warrick
Miller/(Hill)/#29
Bell/Barbosa/#24
Nash/Stoudamire

What is Gasol for Stoudemire going to do us? Get softer and worse?

 

[tobiazz]

I think Amare will do very well this year. He will be better than Gasol in every statistical category except Assts and TO's.

I don't like the idea of moving Boris and Amare in the same trade. If Amare is gone, Boris may be able to put up something like 14/7/6. I don't like the thought of having only three passable front court players (not that Boris was passable this season).

 

[Divide Et Impera]

No to all of those!

The only way I trade with MEM is if it swaps Gasol and Marion! Amare for Gasol/Miller/#4 is something I might consider depending on who is available at #4, but frankly I would just rather not do that deal....

 

[cly2tw]

I like this better...

Shawn Marion
Marcus Banks
Boris Diaw
James Jones
(Marc I.)

for

Mike Miller
Stromile Swift
Damon Stoudamire
Hakim Warrick

Without Diaw it works under the cap but I guess Memphis is under the cap to make this work.

Add picks for some balance changes if you like..

Memphis:

Gasol
Diaw/Johnson
Marion/Gay/Jones
Brewer/Jones
Lowry/Banks/Kinsey

Phoenix
Swift/Thomas
Amare/Warrick
Miller/(Hill)/#29
Bell/Barbosa/#24
Nash/Stoudamire

What is Gasol for Stoudemire going to do us? Get softer and worse?

Agree 100%.

 

[sly fly]

My god.

 

[Covert Rain]

Phoenix gets
Pau Gasol ($13.7 million in 2007-08, expires 2011)
Mike Miller (8.3, 2010)
Damon Stoudamire (4.4, 2009)

Memphis gets
Amare Stoudemire (13.3, 2011)
Boris Diaw (9.0, 2012)
Marcus Banks (3.9, 2011)

One of the worst if not stupidest trades suggested to date.

 

[Forrestham]

Why are so many of you wanting to break up this team. I give them an incomplete. Unless Garnett or Kobe become available, why not keep this team together that may have won if not punked by Stern

 

[Mainstreet]

Why are so many of you wanting to break up this team. I give them an incomplete. Unless Garnett or Kobe become available, why not keep this team together that may have won if not punked by Stern

Valid argument.

Please talk to Sarver about the LT. However, I would rather move one large contract for the right deal than blow up the Suns roster.

 

[panfolk]

I think Amare will do very well this year. He will be better than Gasol in every statistical category except Assts and TO's.

I don't like the idea of moving Boris and Amare in the same trade. If Amare is gone, Boris may be able to put up something like 14/7/6. I don't like the thought of having only three passable front court players (not that Boris was passable this season).

I agree with only trading Amare or Boris but not both. If we could wrangle the number 4 pick I could be persuaded otherwise, however.

 

[Nasser22]

I liked the Celtics one better. Trade threads make me nervous....

 

[azirish]

I have long since taken trade threads seriously. Mostly they prove that fans:

• Either grossly undervalue or overvalue our own players
• Grossly overvalue players on other teams we don't see that often
• Show absolutely no understanding of the NBA collective bargaining agreement and how the salary cap system works
• Show no understanding of the needs of other teams
• Expect other team's GM's to be idiots

 

[NativeSun]

Holy cow...

this thread is funny.

 

[mr_sunshine]

I have long since taken trade threads seriously. Mostly they prove that fans:

• Either grossly undervalue or overvalue our own players
• Grossly overvalue players on other teams we don't see that often
• Show absolutely no understanding of the NBA collective bargaining agreement and how the salary cap system works
• Show no understanding of the needs of other teams
• Expect other team's GM's to be idiots

Couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[Nasser22]

I have long since taken trade threads seriously. Mostly they prove that fans:

• Either grossly undervalue or overvalue our own players
• Grossly overvalue players on other teams we don't see that often
• Show absolutely no understanding of the NBA collective bargaining agreement and how the salary cap system works
• Show no understanding of the needs of other teams
• Expect other team's GM's to be idiots

It's part of the fun of offseason chat. You're right on those points so why don't you give us a good trade offer to talk about?

 

[elindholm]

I have long since taken trade threads seriously. Mostly they prove that fans:

• Either grossly undervalue or overvalue our own players
• Grossly overvalue players on other teams we don't see that often
• Show absolutely no understanding of the NBA collective bargaining agreement and how the salary cap system works
• Show no understanding of the needs of other teams
• Expect other team's GM's to be idiots

So, just out of curiosity, which of those sins am I guilty of?

We've heard from people with inside information that the issues with Stoudemire are real and that trading him could actually happen. Speculating how it might happen is entirely legitimate.

 

[Mainstreet]

We've heard from people with inside information that the issues with Stoudemire are real and that trading him could actually happen. Speculating how it might happen is entirely legitimate.

Maybe it's just the moment, but I think it is all too clear that the Lakers primary plan is to buy Amare when he opts out. I don't think Sarver would pay Amare the money he would want. If the Suns management agree, then Amare is the high salaried player to move. The Suns have two chances to lose Amare, the opt out and the knees. The Suns always have to plan on the worst case scenario because this franchise never seems to have luck on it's side.

 

[elindholm]

Maybe it's just the moment, but I think it is all too clear that the Lakers primary plan is to buy Amare when he opts out.

They can plan all they want. It seems like their "plans" always involve landing another superstar, with the targeted name changing every year or so. Wasn't it Bosh last summer?

The Lakers have to figure out how to compete in the meantime, anyway. Do they really expect to improve the roster significantly by adding only short contracts?

Hoopshype doesn't give Stoudemire's opt-out. When is it, and are we sure he has it?

I don't think Sarver would pay Amare the money he would want.

I don't think any of us has any idea what's going on with this team financially. Last summer most of us speculated that Sarver would drag his feet on Diaw's extension, because of the massive luxury tax implications. Well, Diaw got extended, and handsomely. Many of us also speculated last summer that the MLE would go unused, since the Suns appeared to have a full rotation and it didn't make sense to add another medium salary to sit on the bench. Well, Banks was added, for more than half of the MLE, and sat on the bench.

Maybe Sarver will pay big money and maybe he won't, but we just don't have the track record we need to make a confident prediction.

The Suns have two chances to lose Amare, the opt out and the knees. The Suns always have to plan on the worst case scenario because this franchise never seems to have luck on it's side.

That's true, unfortunately. As I've said all along, trading Stoudemire would be tragic, but if it staves off even greater tragedy, well...

 

[Mainstreet]

Hoopshype doesn't give Stoudemire's opt-out. When is it, and are we sure he has it?

.... I don't think any of us has any idea what's going on with this team financially. Last summer most of us speculated that Sarver would drag his feet on Diaw's extension, because of the massive luxury tax implications. Well, Diaw got extended, and handsomely. Many of us also speculated last summer that the MLE would go unused, since the Suns appeared to have a full rotation and it didn't make sense to add another medium salary to sit on the bench. Well, Banks was added, for more than half of the MLE, and sat on the bench.

I remember Amare has an opt out clause but I don't know when. The only reason I remember it is the fans remarked it was becoming routine in the newer contracts. Somewhere I read the opt out was in 2008 but this seems very early to me.

In regard to Sarver, I definitely give him the benefit of the doubt with extensions given to LB and Diaw. However, Amare seems like a player that might like the glitter of LA and tell the Suns (like JJ) he wants to leave... not to mention the endorsements there.

 

[sharkman]

Amare's opt out is after the 2009-2010 season.

 

[elindholm]

Amare's opt out is after the 2009-2010 season.

That's what hoopshype says, but discussion on this board seems to indicate that there is an earlier one. If he can't opt out until 2010, it's not an issue, because the Suns' window will have long closed by then anyway and it's only one year short of his contract's natural expiration.

I do remember something about an earlier opt-out when the extension was announced, but I don't remember the details.

 

[azirish]

Patricia's Conracts has Amare's player option in '10 http://www.eskimo.com/~pbender/contracts

I have to wonder how much of this Amare's unhappy stuff is legit or just typical national media bull****.

Realistically, I think KG is going to get moved before Amare. The Wolves are not going anywhere with the guys they have. KG is older, but generally pretty healthy and would turn almost anybody into a contedner if they didn't have to give up the store to get him. Last summer the Bulls was the most popular destination.

The difference between the Wolves and the Suns is that Suns are not that far from being a championship level team. The Wolves would have to improve a lot just to get to the playoffs.

How many inside players are "better" than Amare? The only guys who come to mind are KG and Duncan, both of whom are much older and much more expensive. Who else?

No one has won a championship since the Jordan Bulls without a serious low post threat. Unless you can find someone who can fill that role it is just not going to happen. IMHO, it is easier to trade the other guys than to replace Amare.

 

[elindholm]

Patricia's Conracts has Amare's player option in '10 http://www.eskimo.com/~pbender/contracts

Right, that's what hoopshype has too. But I think he has an earlier one. Bender's site isn't always 100% accurate.

Realistically, I think KG is going to get moved before Amare. The Wolves are not going anywhere with the guys they have. KG is older, but generally pretty healthy and would turn almost anybody into a contedner if they didn't have to give up the store to get him. Last summer the Bulls was the most popular destination.

I agree, except that the Bulls don't have the salary pieces anymore. They needed to use P. J. Brown's expriring contract. There just aren't any plausible Garnett-to-Chicago scenarios this summer, owing to the CBA that you claim no one except you understands.

Jermaine O'Neal is the most likely of all to be moved, for similar reasons to Garnett. In fact Indiana is among the most poorly positioned franchises in the league right now. I put the probability of O'Neal to the Lakers at about 30% a month or so ago, and I would raise that to 40% now after Bryant's recent outburst.

How many inside players are "better" than Amare? The only guys who come to mind are KG and Duncan, both of whom are much older and much more expensive. Who else?

Potentially Boozer and Brand, I guess. I'm not sure what the point is. Stoudemire is a great player and the Suns should trade him only as a last resort. Are they at that stage? We don't know.

No one has won a championship since the Jordan Bulls without a serious low post threat. Unless you can find someone who can fill that role it is just not going to happen. IMHO, it is easier to trade the other guys than to replace Amare.

Of course. But if chemistry problems necessitate moving Stoudemire, it's possible that a modest downgrade at his position combined with an upgrade elsewhere in the roster would, in combination, make the Suns a better team. For example, Gasol is not that much worse than Stoudemire, so if Miller and Damon Stoudamire came as part of the package, the overall deal could be beneficial.