Pictures of the catch.

[Russ Smith]

The thing is, you are correct is it was NOT a simultaneous catch. BUT it was an interception. Jennings DID catch the ball and had control over it to start with. The rule is:
If a pass is caught simultaneously by two legible opponents, and both retain it, the ball belongs to the offense. (This is the part you quote)
The part you miss is:
It is not a simultaneous catch if a player gains control first (Jennings) and an opponent subsequently gains joint control (Tate).

Not a catch by Tate, not a simultaneous catch either, it was an interception.

Exactly that's the part of the rule Markbreit was talking about this mornign on ESPN as they had it scrolling across the bottom.

By rule what happened last night is an INT, it's not debatable as per the rule ESPN was showing.

Now if ESPN has the rule wrong, I will change my stance but as long as the rule they're showing is written as they show it, it's simply not possible to say that's a TD.

 

[Fitz Rulz]

The part you miss is:
It is not a simultaneous catch if a player gains control first (Jennings) and an opponent subsequently gains joint control (Tate).

Not a catch by Tate, not a simultaneous catch either, it was an interception.

Jennings did not complete the catch by having his both feet on the ground. so he did not have full control of the ball before Tate came to the action.
it's not about who put his hands on the ball first.

 

[InfiniteRed]

If Jennings did not have control then Tate certainly didn't, making it incomplete. In my eyes, Jennings completed the catch and got two feet in bounds, see the second angle:

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[Fitz Rulz]

No it doesn't make it incomplete. It's simultaneous catch.
What I meant by he did not complete the catch on his own to be an INT.

 

[Mulli]

Wow, so the NFL doesn't call offensive pass interference for pushing anymore? And the defender got two feet down. Tate's arm(s) was almost completely extended around the defender's body.

I am 41 years old, never in my life have I seen that ruled a simultaneous catch.

 

[NJCardFan]

Pereira says it's a bad call. Gerry Austin ex NFL ref says it's a bad call, Jerry Markbreit 30 year NFL ref said it's a bad call.

Yeah, I think I would defer to 3 former NFL referees over some bloke on a message board. However, to play devil's advocate, they are former NFL referees who just might be jumping on the INT bandwagon because they want to protect the integrity of their fellow officials who are currently locked out by trying to make the replacements look really bad here. Just some food for thought.

 

[NJCardFan]

If Jennings did not have control then Tate certainly didn't, making it incomplete. In my eyes, Jennings completed the catch and got two feet in bounds, see the second angle:

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Based on this angle Jennings most certainly had control. Tate only had a hand on the ball.

 

[Mulli]

Yeah, I think I would defer to 3 former NFL referees over some bloke on a message board. However, to play devil's advocate, they are former NFL referees who just might be jumping on the INT bandwagon because they want to protect the integrity of their fellow officials who are currently locked out by trying to make the replacements look really bad here. Just some food for thought.

Good point. Still think it is a bad call, and I have never been a ref.

 

[Fitz Rulz]

You make up your mind. I don't care. It's easy to blindly follow some BS on the media and repeat after them.
Free country, believe in whatever

 

[Mulli]

You make up your mind. I don't care. It's easy to blindly follow some BS on the media and repeat after them.
Free country, believe in whatever

Also very easy to watch these videos. Or disregard watch looks to be plain as day.

 

[NJCardFan]

You make up your mind. I don't care. It's easy to blindly follow some BS on the media and repeat after them.
Free country, believe in whatever

Look at the avatar dude. No way that Tate in any way establishes even a share of the reception. Jennings has both arms around the ball while Tate has both arms around Jennings' arms. That is not shared possession. Now you're just being stubborn because you don't want to admit you're wrong.

 

[john h]

Someone should compile a series of pictures from different angles into a single .gif.

But based on that picture, it looks like GB has it.

That play in real time would be a tough call for even the old refs. A lot easier with still instant photos. I think the real refs could have got that one wrong also. It is not like the real refs never make mistakes that cost a team a game. Like everyone I wish we had the real guys back. But should we have them back at any cost. Is there any limit as to what the NFL should give them? In the end it is the fans that pay the refs salary so the NFL is negotiating for us. Since I do not go to many games I do not worry about what they pay them but I do not like the principal that all leverage is now with the refs and the union. Anything they want now they will likely receive.

Clearly these replcements are not nearly as good as the regular guys. They are very slow to make calls and try to get it right by consulting. It slows the game down and now has the fans, players, coaches, all on fire. The media adds to all this by making this the story of the year. In fact the stadiums are still sold out. The Commissioner has backed himself into a corner and will have to cave and be embarrassed when in fact he was trying to negotiate what he thought was fair compensation and benefits. It is out of his hands now and is in the medias hands. Ultimately the owners will have to order the Commissioner to settle on the unions terms.

Every year the refs make calls that can change the outcomes of games. They are humans and subject to human errors. We have to live with that. When the old guys come back things will speed up and it will be more enjoyable to watch the games but will the number of bad calls really change that much? Probably not but the perception will be that things have greatly improved. The media will have settled this in the end. Not the union or the Commissioner.

I sure wanted Green Bay to win as we still have to deal with our division rival Seattle who is rather good. For what ever reason I really do not like the Seattle coach. Not sure why but he just rubs me the wrong way. Yes it very much looks like the refs made a bad call last night and ignored a push in the back of a defender which could have possible changed the entire play. One might also say that Green Bay lost the game by poor play throughout the game not just the last play which we all focused on. Games are usually not decided by any one play but by a long list of bad plays by one team or the other throughout the game.

Players and coaches will still be mad and pout when they lose a game no matter who is reffing the game. Now they can put it all on the substitute refs. They have someone new to blame for their loss. Perhaps a missed pass catch early in the game which negated a TD really cost a loss but that is not remembered. It is always the last bad mistake by ref or player that is remembered.

Losers will always blame someone and not there own poor play over 60 minutes.

 

[jbeecham]

Also watch closely as Tate's right arm comes completely away from Jennings & the ball as they are falling to the ground. So now apparently 1 hand on the ball is enough to have simultaneous possession? He reaches back in after to try to get a 2nd hand on it....

 

[Fitz Rulz]

I don't force you to believe in what I said not that I care. You have your eyes, I have mine. Simple. For me it's joint. I watched the same clip and different others and I came to different conclusion. Why does it hurt that much listening to different opinion? Or is it that "You're either with us or against us."

 

[jbeecham]

I don't force you to believe in what I said not that I care. You have your eyes, I have mine. Simple. For me it's joint. I watched the same clip and different others and I came to different conclusion. Why does it hurt that much listening to different opinion? Or is it that "You're either with us or against us."

It's just interesting that the only people who seem to think that it is a catch by Tate are Seattle fans & fans that hate Green Bay (and even they admit GB got screwed, but they're happy about it).

 

[Russ Smith]

I don't force you to believe in what I said not that I care. You have your eyes, I have mine. Simple. For me it's joint. I watched the same clip and different others and I came to different conclusion. Why does it hurt that much listening to different opinion? Or is it that "You're either with us or against us."

Well speaking for myself someone who said we're misinterpreting the rule, media rule ignorants, regular ref lovers, and GB bandwagons are whining, sort of loses the right to accuse others of not wanting to listen to other opinions?


NFL won't overturn it so it's pointless but they blew the call IMO.

 

[Fitz Rulz]

I wanted GB to win. So your point isn't true.

 

[Fitz Rulz]

Well speaking for myself someone who said we're misinterpreting the rule, media rule ignorants, regular ref lovers, and GB bandwagons are whining, sort of loses the right to accuse others of not wanting to listen to other opinions?


NFL won't overturn it so it's pointless but they blew the call IMO.

I don't come here and my only point of support is that ex ref on TV said that so it must be true.

Don't you think if GB won on a similar play, we would be talking about it like
this?
Nah, same guy would have said A Rodgers is God's gift to football

or if Seattle beat us after the 4th time-out?
it would have been ole same Cardinals bla bla

 

[jbeecham]

If the teams were reversed & GB had won on that play then I think the fans on this board would be just as equally outraged. Sure we'd be happy that Seattle lost, but overall it's a sad day for the state of the NFL and it's taking away from the quality season that the Cardinals are having.

 

[Russ Smith]

I don't come here and my only point of support is that ex ref on TV said that so it must be true.

Don't you think if GB won on a similar play, we would be talking about it like
this?
Nah, same guy would have said A Rodgers is God's gift to football

or if Seattle beat us after the 4th time-out?
it would have been ole same Cardinals bla bla

the rule has been printed out clear as day, not a simultaneous catch. If you watch the replay when Jennings other foot comes down he now has control(the part you're fixating on) but at that point, Tate does NOT have possession. He's actually trying to get his right hand back on the football it comes across the facemask of Jennings. You can't even see the left hand beyond he's wedging it between the chest of Jennings and the ball.

Put it this way, for it to be simultaneous what you're saying is that if the Enterprise would suddenly beam up Jennnings, the ball wouldn't move because Tate still has control of it. Watch the replay again and tell me if Jennings suddenly disappears is that ball going to fall before Tate gets his hands on it or is it going to stay right where it is? It's going to fall because Tate has Jennings, not the ball.

He might catch it if Jennings vanishes but he hasn't caught it yet, and Jennings has.

If that call went the other way I'd be just as furious, it completely ruined the football game for me.

I don't care that Seattle won look if we can't beat Seattle we have no business thinking about playoffs anyways, right now SF is the team we should be worried about in our division not Seattle.

I'd already won both my fantasy matchups so that was irrelevant to the play. I don't bet on NFL games so that has nothing to do with it.

But I did watch large portions of that game and came away feeling completely jobbed.

The last time I had that feeling was the Bradley/Pacquiao fight.

 

[Fitz Rulz]

If the teams were reversed & GB had won on that play then I think the fans on this board would be just as equally outraged. Sure we'd be happy that Seattle lost, but overall it's a sad day for the state of the NFL and it's taking away from the quality season that the Cardinals are having.

so our judgement is a bit biased. we can't deny that.
anyway not the first and won't be the last
and I hope we won't be the hosed side, still a long season

 

[JS22]

You must be registered for see images attach

Ahaha. I actually laughed out loud.

 

[WildBB]

Regardless. Seahawk fan or not. I am talking football rules here. I am A cardinal fan so I'd better just bash the refs coz Seattle won. No.

that play had 2 calls:

1) the OPI. They screwed

2) the simultaneous catch. Correct.

Your missing a third point. WHEN THE CATCH WAS CALLED A TD! This more than anything got my goat. The ref that called the TD did not have an unobstructed view of the catch. Then reacting to the other refs hands beginning to extent up, he wrongly followed suit by thinking the other referee was about to signal TD. Watch the replay of the officials.

 

[Fitz Rulz]

bad mechanics
a ref shouldn't mirror a TD signal unless 100% sure he sees it

 

[ryanshaug]

You make up your mind. I don't care. It's easy to blindly follow some BS on the media and repeat after them.
Free country, believe in whatever

Has nothing to do with following the media, nice try though. You obviously do care or you'd stop posting about it.