PJ Tucker arrested for "super extreme" DUI

StreetTruckinTitan

You talkin' to me?
Joined
Mar 11, 2014
Posts
3,209
Reaction score
1,811
After 27 tequila shots who needs a beer? J/K

I can't make the same claim as Brian but I haven't had alcohol in more than two decades. I wasn't an alcoholic, I didn't go through some trauma, I just reached a point in my life where I was too busy to drink. After a few years I realized there was no reason to bring booze back into my life.

Steve

Pretty much same with me anymore. When I was much younger I enjoyed my beer probably alittle too much at times. Usually at a sporting events or during happy hour on Fridays with some co-workers. I dont drink much anymore since I rarely consume anything that doesnt have nutritional value.
 

Brian in Mesa

Advocatus Diaboli
Super Moderator
Moderator
Supporting Member
Joined
May 13, 2002
Posts
72,510
Reaction score
23,916
Location
Killjoy Central
Mormons don't drink. I don't know whether Brian is Mormon, but that's a likely explanation.

I kinda thought the same since he's from Mesa.

I just love stereotypes. :D

Mesa was founded by Mormon settlers but is currently only 10-12% LDS, which makes it 88-90% Non-Mormon. The largest denomination in the city is Catholicism.
 

Superbone

Phoenix native; Lifelong Suns Fan
Supporting Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2005
Posts
6,317
Reaction score
3,454
Location
Phoenix, AZ
Why would I think that? I spoke only for non-americans because I am one; I have absolutely no doubt that there are a ton of americans who think that way, it's just that I'm not one of them. Perhaps I should have been clearer but maybe a more 'clarity-seeking' response from your good self first would have helped; I was slightly offended that you were offended :).

I prefer to think of myself as a citizen of earth. :) I don't see a reason to classify your response to a particular group of people. Sorry to offend you. My initial offense has now dissipated.
 

AzStevenCal

ASFN IDOL
Supporting Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2004
Posts
36,741
Reaction score
16,481
I prefer to think of myself as a citizen of earth. :) I don't see a reason to classify your response to a particular group of people. Sorry to offend you. My initial offense has now dissipated.

Really? I prefer to think of myself as a tourist, temporarily stuck on Earth.

Steve
 

Brian in Mesa

Advocatus Diaboli
Super Moderator
Moderator
Supporting Member
Joined
May 13, 2002
Posts
72,510
Reaction score
23,916
Location
Killjoy Central
Never had a beer in my life, so count me out on this line of thinking as well.

Really???? How does this happen?:shock:

Why have I never had a drink in my 43 years?

Personal responsibility.

Made the choice at a very young age and have stuck to my convictions.

My dad is a recovered alcoholic (over 21 years without a drink now). He was never a bad drunk. Quite the opposite. He was shy and introverted, but add alcohol and his personality came out and he was a jokester and the life of the party. He would go to the bar and play pool. Guys would buy him beers hoping to get him drunk and better their chances in the games. He actually got more relaxed and played better as the drinks kept coming. Ironically, he never was interested in beer and made it through college without drinking. Graduated from ASU with a Math degree and got drafted to go to Vietnam a week later. Climbing guard towers and all of the horrible things he had to do and the things he saw there contributed greatly to his alcoholism. I am very proud of him for overcoming it (on his own...without AA - he tried meetings, but they made him want to drink).

I witnessed several of his "friends" aka drinking buddies ruin their lives with alcohol. Decided that I wanted no part of that life.

Lost friends to drunk drivers over the years. Was in SADD in high school. Was hit head on by an extreme drunk driver on a Sunday afternoon with my wife and her grandma in the car (4 felony charges against the driver).

Sidenotes:

Same thing with smoking. Lost my grandpa to cancer and recall him wanting his cigarettes in the hospital shortly before he passed. Never wanted any part of that.

Same with drugs. Just never saw anything positive in them. Never even tempted.
 

BC867

Long time Phoenician!
Joined
Sep 16, 2002
Posts
17,827
Reaction score
1,709
Location
NE Phoenix
Why have I never had a drink in my 43 years?

Personal responsibility.

Made the choice at a very young age and have stuck to my convictions

You're a good man, Brian. It is a shame that you have to defend yourself.

I'll have a beer with pizza. Or a margarita with a shredded beef burro enchilada style. Only while eating.

Anything more than that makes me feel weary and I don't like that feeling.

All within the legal and moral limits.

The phrase "within moderation" makes sense.

PJ Tucker not only violated that phrase, he obliterated it. And then drove.

I will never view his being on the Suns that same as before he potentially put people at risk. Nor will I look at the Suns Front Office the same for re-signing him knowing about it. That's my opinion.
 

Brian in Mesa

Advocatus Diaboli
Super Moderator
Moderator
Supporting Member
Joined
May 13, 2002
Posts
72,510
Reaction score
23,916
Location
Killjoy Central
You're a good man, Brian. It is a shame that you have to defend yourself.

I'll have a beer with pizza. Or a margarita with a shredded beef burro enchilada style. Only while eating.

Anything more than that makes me feel weary and I don't like that feeling.

All within the legal and moral limits.

The phrase "within moderation" makes sense.

No worries. It is my choice and I'm happy with it. I don't mind explaining why.

I don't care if others drink as long as they are responsible about it and it isn't a problem for them or for others. If it is a problem I really hope they seek help or make a change on their own.
 

Phoenix219

Rookie
Joined
Jul 24, 2014
Posts
58
Reaction score
0
Never had a beer in my life, so count me out on this line of thinking as well.

Really???? How does this happen?:shock:

It can...

I've never finished a beer in my life. Nasty things.

I've been quite inebriated of course, but not often, and off of stronger but tastier mixed drinks. But never from beer.

I tend to prefer a nicely rolled, nicely filled cigar of sorts. I don't even smoke cigarettes, but I figure I'm allowed one bad habit / peace of mind. ;)
 

Iceman

Administrator
Administrator
Moderator
Supporting Member
Joined
Mar 13, 2014
Posts
4,442
Reaction score
116
Location
Gilbert
Why have I never had a drink in my 43 years?

Personal responsibility.

Made the choice at a very young age and have stuck to my convictions.

My dad is a recovered alcoholic (over 21 years without a drink now).

Good for you Brian.... but even more kudos to your father. That has to be such a hard thing for him to do, especially being a military man and what he has gone through. I have seen many of my friends/family go through the struggle of addiction. I like to have socialized drinks, but don't get drunk (sometimes, on accident it happens though, but very rare :p ). I hate the feeling the next day or even 2 days after having too much to drink. Just don't feel right.

But, here is the thing I do not understand about guys that make tons of money and are pinpointed because they are famous- Why do they not hire a driver??? There would be tons of people that would love that job. Always on call and even maybe have the driver live with them?? So you pay them 25-30k a year until you are done playing. Safest way stay out of trouble and never have to worry about this crap. Not sure if anyone posted about this in earlier posts, but always wanted to get this out on this situation.
 

Phoenix219

Rookie
Joined
Jul 24, 2014
Posts
58
Reaction score
0
You're a good man, Brian. It is a shame that you have to defend yourself.

I'll have a beer with pizza. Or a margarita with a shredded beef burro enchilada style. Only while eating.

Anything more than that makes me feel weary and I don't like that feeling.

All within the legal and moral limits.

The phrase "within moderation" makes sense.

PJ Tucker not only violated that phrase, he obliterated it. And then drove.

I will never view his being on the Suns that same as before he potentially put people at risk. Nor will I look at the Suns Front Office the same for re-signing him knowing about it. That's my opinion.

I agree with the entire phrase about moderation.... and that PJ blew the top off.

That being said... he'll be punished in a court of law like anyone else, and theres no reason to hold this against him for the rest of his life. He will have been penalized and be dealt with like anyone else. Theres no reason to judge someone for the rest of their life (or in this place, career) off of one mistake that was handled by the law. He did the crime, he will serve the time / pay the fine. Its done and over. Thats why courts don't allow double jeopardy. Unfortunately that is far from true in the court of public opinions...
 

StreetTruckinTitan

You talkin' to me?
Joined
Mar 11, 2014
Posts
3,209
Reaction score
1,811
Why have I never had a drink in my 43 years?

Personal responsibility.

Made the choice at a very young age and have stuck to my convictions.

My dad is a recovered alcoholic (over 21 years without a drink now).

Good for you Brian.... but even more kudos to your father. That has to be such a hard thing for him to do, especially being a military man and what he has gone through. I have seen many of my friends/family go through the struggle of addiction. I like to have socialized drinks, but don't get drunk (sometimes, on accident it happens though, but very rare :p ). I hate the feeling the next day or even 2 days after having too much to drink. Just don't feel right.

But, here is the thing I do not understand about guys that make tons of money and are pinpointed because they are famous- Why do they not hire a driver??? There would be tons of people that would love that job. Always on call and even maybe have the driver live with them?? So you pay them 25-30k a year until you are done playing. Safest way stay out of trouble and never have to worry about this crap. Not sure if anyone posted about this in earlier posts, but always wanted to get this out on this situation.


Thanks for the new business idea. :cheers:
 

Chaplin

Better off silent
Joined
May 13, 2002
Posts
46,367
Reaction score
16,864
Location
Round Rock, TX
You're a good man, Brian. It is a shame that you have to defend yourself.

Defending himself? Come on. He's not defending himself. There was some curiosity how he could go so long without drinking and he did a damn good job explaining it. Do you actually think people on here are attacking him?

Only thing I took issue with is the implication that those of us that do drink are somehow irresponsible and that he is better for not doing so. Again, just an implication that, knowing Brian, wasn't intentional at all.
 

Errntknght

Registered User
Joined
Sep 24, 2002
Posts
6,342
Reaction score
319
Location
Phoenix
Here's a little different perspective on killing people with cars.

Some years ago I read an article that stated that SUV's killed 3 times as many people in other vehicles they collided with as ordinary sedans did. (The occupants in the SUVs were killed less frequently than the sedan occupants, of course.) I imagine the relative rate is not that high anymore with so many other SUVs out there to collide with.

Lets suppose that the statistics on people killed in accidents showed that say, five years of driving an SUV would have the same probability of killing someone as a person driving drunk in one episode. (I'm talking about the excess probabilty of SUVs over sedans.) Don't you think its somewhat odd that no one expresses moral outrage over people driving SUVs while drunk driving ignites a firestorm?

BTW, I no longer drink at all due to having diabetes and I drove an SUV for a short time. I did drive once in drink impaired state because the guy I was with got a good deal more wasted than I did and we didn't think it was wise to try sleeping it off in a blizzard. I remember joking that if we hit someone he'd have to be as drunk as us to be out in that storm, with the visibility at about five feet. The good thing about it was I learned just how slowed my reaction time was in that condition so I never had any inclination to try it again.
 

StreetTruckinTitan

You talkin' to me?
Joined
Mar 11, 2014
Posts
3,209
Reaction score
1,811
I agree with the entire phrase about moderation.... and that PJ blew the top off.

That being said... he'll be punished in a court of law like anyone else, and theres no reason to hold this against him for the rest of his life. He will have been penalized and be dealt with like anyone else. Theres no reason to judge someone for the rest of their life (or in this place, career) off of one mistake that was handled by the law. He did the crime, he will serve the time / pay the fine. Its done and over. Thats why courts don't allow double jeopardy. Unfortunately that is far from true in the court of public opinions...


My thoughts exactly. I enjoyed PJ as a Sun and Im thrilled he'll be back. As Cotton would say, "He's a dirt worker" and PJ is just that for the Suns. He's one of the leaders in the locker room and now, unfortunately, he can teach the youth of his dumbassedness situation he put himself into this summer. If Im at the home season opener I'll def stand & cheer and raise my glass to PJ. Welcome back PJ.

Relax, that last part was a joke.....sorta of. :cheers:
 

AzStevenCal

ASFN IDOL
Supporting Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2004
Posts
36,741
Reaction score
16,481
Who are you, Dr. Who without a police box? Or maybe you're Arthur Dent.

If I had a Tardis I wouldn't be stuck here on Earth now would I?:) BTW, did you know that David Tennant in his initial Doctor Who post-regeneration episode with the killer Santas and spinning Christmas trees mentions having met Arthur Dent? Anyway, not a Time Lord and not a "Hitchhiker" (I don't even own a bathrobe).

Steve
 

AzStevenCal

ASFN IDOL
Supporting Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2004
Posts
36,741
Reaction score
16,481
I agree with the entire phrase about moderation.... and that PJ blew the top off.

That being said... he'll be punished in a court of law like anyone else, and theres no reason to hold this against him for the rest of his life. He will have been penalized and be dealt with like anyone else. Theres no reason to judge someone for the rest of their life (or in this place, career) off of one mistake that was handled by the law. He did the crime, he will serve the time / pay the fine. Its done and over. Thats why courts don't allow double jeopardy. Unfortunately that is far from true in the court of public opinions...

I'm of two minds on this. It's in the past and we can't change it. Holding a grudge against PJ isn't going to do me or PJ any good. My problem with it is your attitude, and by your attitude, I mean the attitude you just espoused that is so readily accepted by so many. It's the way most of this country and probably this world looks at it. But until we stop looking at it this way, the slaughter will continue.

I'm not concerned with the past. I'm just hopeful that we can reach the point where we no longer view it simply as a mistake that people make. AFAIC, it's attempted murder and sometimes you can take the attempted out of that sentence. It's not going to stop until we reach the point where it is such an unacceptable act that no reasonable person would even think of putting themselves in such a position.

Steve
 

Phoenix219

Rookie
Joined
Jul 24, 2014
Posts
58
Reaction score
0
My view has nothing to do with his crime, but rather, his punishment has been given out by the judicial system, and it will be served. Thats the bottom line, and the only thing that matters. Anything more is just personal opinion (which we all have our right to) but for all intents and purposes, its a done issue. Regardless of what crime you are accused of, once court is over and you have fulfilled your reparations and punishment, its over. (It would be manslaughter and not attempted murder, anyways) - but you can't punish someone for a what if, or for a crime that didn't happen, or an accident that may have occurred but didn't. Its a very slippery slope, to quote Mark Cuban.
 

AzStevenCal

ASFN IDOL
Supporting Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2004
Posts
36,741
Reaction score
16,481
My view has nothing to do with his crime, but rather, his punishment has been given out by the judicial system, and it will be served. Thats the bottom line, and the only thing that matters. Anything more is just personal opinion (which we all have our right to) but for all intents and purposes, its a done issue. Regardless of what crime you are accused of, once court is over and you have fulfilled your reparations and punishment, its over. (It would be manslaughter and not attempted murder, anyways) - but you can't punish someone for a what if, or for a crime that didn't happen, or an accident that may have occurred but didn't. Its a very slippery slope, to quote Mark Cuban.

I'm okay with this. My point was about changing the future, not punishing for the past.

Steve
 

Shaggy

Site Owner Administrator
Administrator
Moderator
Joined
Sep 29, 2008
Posts
9,048
Reaction score
2,989
Location
Arizona
Here's a little different perspective on killing people with cars.

Some years ago I read an article that stated that SUV's killed 3 times as many people in other vehicles they collided with as ordinary sedans did. (The occupants in the SUVs were killed less frequently than the sedan occupants, of course.) I imagine the relative rate is not that high anymore with so many other SUVs out there to collide with.

Lets suppose that the statistics on people killed in accidents showed that say, five years of driving an SUV would have the same probability of killing someone as a person driving drunk in one episode. (I'm talking about the excess probabilty of SUVs over sedans.) Don't you think its somewhat odd that no one expresses moral outrage over people driving SUVs while drunk driving ignites a firestorm?


BTW, I no longer drink at all due to having diabetes and I drove an SUV for a short time. I did drive once in drink impaired state because the guy I was with got a good deal more wasted than I did and we didn't think it was wise to try sleeping it off in a blizzard. I remember joking that if we hit someone he'd have to be as drunk as us to be out in that storm, with the visibility at about five feet. The good thing about it was I learned just how slowed my reaction time was in that condition so I never had any inclination to try it again.

Sorry but why would you compare people killed by drunk driving to people being kill by SUV drivers? That doesn't make sense to me. I think the reason you don't hear a firestorm about it is that it doesn't make sense to.
 

Mainstreet

Cruisin' Mainstreet
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2003
Posts
117,110
Reaction score
57,283
Okay. I'm sorry that you have found my tone arrogant, but we have a deep disagreement on this issue.

We have laws for lots of reasons, but a big one is that they enforce a moral code. If we think that killing people is wrong, we make a law saying you can't kill people. But the idea that killing people is wrong exists whether we have a law or not. The law reflects society's moral standards; it does not define them.

Let's say a guy runs up and stabs me in the leg, for no reason, then runs off. I can't track him down. After I recover from the injury, I make some attempt to get help from law enforcement. They can't find him either. The guy gets away with it, but he has still done something very wrong.

We abide by "innocent until proven guilty" for good reasons. There can be cases of mistaken identity, falsified testimony, extenuating circumstances. We want to reserve legal punishment for those cases where there is no reasonable doubt.

But that doesn't change the fact that there are lots of people out there getting away with murder (literally, in some cases), and what they are doing is still wrong. Legally guilty and morally guilty are not the same thing. People who are legally guilty deserve legal punishment; people who are morally guilty deserve our contempt.

Tucker was caught in the act. The report left no doubt that he was, in fact, driving the vehicle -- otherwise that would have gotten cleared up. It left no doubt that he had a BAC of way over the legal limit -- same situation. Morally, that's all you need to know. He was driving while falling-down drunk, and he has committed a grievous moral sin. End of story.

Now, did we know right away that he was legally guilty? No, because, as you pointed out, he had a chance to try to work loopholes in the legal system. But even had he escaped legal guilt, he was still morally guilty.

And I really don't care what his legal punishment is. He'll always be scum in my book, just like O. J. Simpson. By dumb luck, Tucker avoided actually killing anyone, but he's just as dangerous -- or moreso, really, since his victims will be chosen indiscriminately. Someone is not any less dead if they die in a reckless accident rather than at the hands of a jealous ex-husband.



I agree that vigilantism can be a serious problem and needs to be discouraged. The legal system needs to run its course. And I also agree that we should not rush to judgment before we have all of the facts. The case of Richard Jewell is sobering.

But we had all of the facts in this case, because this case was very simple. He was caught in the act, terribly drunk, driving. Those are all of the facts you need. Are they enough for a legal conviction, well maybe not. But are they enough to be convicted in the court of public opinion, you'd better believe it.

If you walk in on your wife having intercourse with another man, you don't need a legal trial to determine what happened. Tucker was caught with his pants down, screwing the entire community. We all knew it as soon as the early reports weren't refuted.

I have read your post several times today and delayed responding because I did not know the proper response. Maybe I still don't. I moved on when Tucker plead guilty of DUI. There was no doubt left whatsoever of his guilt.

I then tried to switch to why did the Suns pay him so much money with a possible jail sentence pending. I also tried to explore how others personally feel about drinking and driving. I was exploring feelings, not blood alcohol tables. Some posters have zero tolerance for drinking and driving and some have some tolerance as long as persons are not physically and legally impaired. I just wanted to know how others felt about the issue. Actually it brought about some good responses.

If you feel I should have judged Tucker before his guilty plea, so be it. Maybe I should have jumped on the blood alcohol content right away. Of course drinking and driving impaired is wrong no matter how you spin it. I agree with this wholeheartedly. However, I felt there might be more to the story that I did not know. As I said, the Suns signing Tucker to a substantial contract or signing him at all was puzzling to me. Yes, I'm making a judgment or opinion here. I'm sure they had evidence of his guilt much earlier than announced. IMO, the Suns handled this poorly. Why lock in a player that is not a star for 3 years with 12 million plus guaranteed contract. If the Suns wanted to give him a second chance I believe he could have been signed for much less or at least put more protection into the contract. Actually, maybe I'm being unfair, perhaps they did before the third year but I have not heard about it.

Anyway, I felt I owed you a response.
 

Errntknght

Registered User
Joined
Sep 24, 2002
Posts
6,342
Reaction score
319
Location
Phoenix
Sorry but why would you compare people killed by drunk driving to people being kill by SUV drivers? That doesn't make sense to me. I think the reason you don't hear a firestorm about it is that it doesn't make sense to.

I compared them because driving an SUV is as avoidable as driving drunk and the people killed are just as dead. Do you have a preference for being done it by an SUV? I don't and since I can avoid most drunk drivers by not being on the road at the peak hours they're coming home from their binges, I'm far more concerned about a collision with an SUV, which infest the streets at all hours.
 

AZBALLER

sleeping giant
Joined
Oct 10, 2002
Posts
1,101
Reaction score
19
Location
AZ
At the end of the day, it's simply not entirely about what's safest on the streets, even if that's what people want to believe.
 

Forum statistics

Threads
552,377
Posts
5,398,147
Members
6,313
Latest member
50 year card fan
Top