Playoffs: Suns @ Nuggets Monday game thread 5-1-2023- Game 2

[Proximo]

Relative to what? Wilt’s 100pt performance? 39. I don’t need to type anything else. 39.

Relative to how any other center in the NBA could do in terms of slowing him down. I don't think anybody could have done much better on the shots he took.

People act like perfect defense can completely stop someone from scoring. That's total BS.

You can't stop a 7 footer shooting a hook shot or a fadeway unless you are 9ft tall.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Which is it? Top 3 or Top 5?

A distinction without a difference. SUPERSTARS are supposed to carry their teams. KD is falling short.

Again, KD when he was that player was also THE player on those teams.

Oh yeah, the famously talent deficient Warriors with Klay and Steph, and the Nets with Kyrie and Harden.

Who said this was ever going to be KD's team? He was supposed to be the second star on this team to take pressure off of Book and prevent teams from keying on him.

You don't give up Cam/Bridges/boatload of pics for a #2.

They are the best combo in the playoffs. KD isn't the problem on this team. The lack of depth is. Monty not solidifying rotations is. Ayton not showing up for stretches again is.

KD is PART of the problem. If he were playing like a superstar, we wouldn't be down 0-2.

 

[Covert Rain]

A distinction without a difference. SUPERSTARS are supposed to carry their teams. KD is falling short.

Oh yeah, the famously talent deficient Warriors with Klay and Steph, and the Nets with Kyrie and Harden.

You don't give up Cam/Bridges/boatload of pics for a #2.

KD is PART of the problem. If he were playing like a superstar, we wouldn't be down 0-2.

Not many teams have 2 superstars. Even then there are only so many balls. One has to defer to the other. Guess how the combo is doing in the playoffs compared to other duos? His cost was his cost. We have no idea how much other teams were willing to give up but not going through that again.

I call bull. He is the most consistent #2 Booker has ever had. KD doesn't solve the bench problem, the Monty problem or the Ayton problem regardless of how he plays. The most you can hope for is that he plays at a level that can try and plug some of those holes. Even then you can't depend on that every single night. It's the very definition of being top heavy. Maybe Durant is at that age where he can't be the #1 any longer. He shouldn't have to on this team with Book, if we had a bench, if Ayton played up to this potential and if Paul could stay healthy.

NBA Playoffs: Ranking the Top 5 Duos in Round 2

Ranking and evaluating the top five superstar duos of the round 2 teams remaining in the 2023 NBA Playoffs.

lastwordonsports.com

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Not many teams have 2 superstars.

Most teams that win rings do!

Even then there are only so many balls. One has to defer to the other.

According to whom?

KD doesn't solve the bench problem

Trading for KD gave up our best bench player

The most you can hope for is that he plays at a level that can try and plug some of those holes.

You don't make the trade if you don't think KD will do this.

Even then you can't depend on that every single night.

Then why make the trade?

It's the very defintion of being top heavy. Maybe Durant is at that age where he can't be the #1 any longer. He shouldn't have to on this team with Book, if we had a bench, if Ayton played up to this potential and if Paul could stay healthy.

That's a lot of If's. Again - if KD were playing like a top 3 player, as he's being paid and what was given up in compensation, we'd be at 1-1.

Even WITH Monty's questionable decisions, Ayton's mercurial nature, and a completely useless bench, we would be tied 1-1 and feeling great if KD would have just had an average shooting night!

 

[Covert Rain]

Most teams that win rings do!

According to whom?


Trading for KD gave up our best bench player


You don't make the trade if you don't think KD will do this.

Then why make the trade?

That's a lot of If's. Again - if KD were playing like a top 3 player, as he's being paid and what was given up in compensation, we'd be at 1-1.

Even WITH Monty's questionable decisions, Ayton's mercurial nature, and a completely useless bench, we would be tied 1-1 and feeling great if KD would have just had an average shooting night!

You don't trade for a player that gives you the best playoff duo? You don't trade for a player that takes pressure off of Book to elevate his game or give him the best 2nd scorer to play along side him he has ever had? What?!?!!?

Then you want to downplay the combination of a short bench, Monty's questionable rotations and your #1 draft pick not playing up to par?

Tell that to the Lakers who finally have a healthy AD back and completely revamped their bench who looked like a completely different team after being top heavy in their rotation too. What about the Mavs who are arguably deeper but don't have a legit 2nd start to play alongside Luka and look completely different now that Brunson is gone.

 

[Mainstreet]

Im sick awful monty worst poff coach get his ass out if az

There is something contradictory here. The Suns have been to the Finals and the second round of the playoffs the last three seasons under Monty.

Could another coach do better? Maybe, with a better supporting cast.

 

[Covert Rain]

There is something contradictory here. The Suns have been to the Finals and the second round of the playoffs the last three seasons under Monty.

Could another coach do better? Maybe, with a better supporting cast.

I think there is. I bet Pop could have taken what we have and done better. I bet Steve Kerr could have taken what we have and do better. Monty despite the good (and yes he has done some things well), still is one of only a handful of coaches to collapse after an 2-0 start in the finals. He is one of handful of coaches to coach a team to the #1 seed and get bounced early. You can't look at only one side of the coin.

I have not been on the fire Monty bandwagon either but damn he is making it hard to not hop on.

 

[Mainstreet]

I think there is. I bet Pop could have taken what we have and done better. I bet Steve Kerr could have taken what we have and do better. Monty despite the good (and yes he has done some things well), still is one of only a handful of coaches to collapse after an 2-0 start in the finals. He is one of handful of coaches to coach a team to the #1 seed and get bounced early. You can't look at only one side of the coin.

I have not been on the fire Monty bandwagon either but damn he is making it hard to not hop on.

I understand if the Suns fire Monty. It comes with the territory.

However, if we are going to point out the reasons for the Suns failure, it goes well beyond Monty.

 

[Covert Rain]

I understand if the Suns fire Monty. It comes with the territory.

However, if we are going to point out the reasons for the Suns failure, it goes well beyond Monty.

I am not saying otherwise but your coach can't collapse in the playoffs and show consistent struggles with adjustments 3 years running and not be a major part of that either. Don't get me wrong. You CANNOT FIRE Monty without having someone better in the wings. That's why I am not on that bandwagon.

We have seen how that works out for the Cardinals.

 

[BirdGangThing]

You can't stop a 7 footer shooting a hook shot or a fadeway unless you are 9ft tall.

KD is 9ft tall???

 

[Covert Rain]

Taking it with a grain of salt until we hear from Suns medical staff but Monty said in the presser Paul couldn't push off it at all.

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[ASUCHRIS]

Taking it with a grain of salt until we hear from Suns medical staff but Monty said in the presser Paul couldn't push off it at all.

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Might have been the last game he played as a Sun. We can all hope.

 

[Covert Rain]

Might have been the last game he played as a Sun.

I had not thought about it that way but you could be right.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

I had not thought about it that way but you could be right.

Year after year he falls apart in the playoffs and we have no credible replacement. We all know the definition of insanity - gotta try something different. It's not like Paul will be more reliable with age, and paying him 30 million to be an ok 4th option doesn't make sense.

 

[Pokinmik]

KD has definitely played subpar these past couple games, in relation to what he expects of himself. I bet he’d be first to tell anyone that. We need the KD that can casually drop 35-40 and we haven’t seen him get hot yet. If he does this is a brand new series. Time is running out it has to be Friday.

 

[Covert Rain]

Year after year, he falls apart in the playoffs, and we have no credible replacement. We all know the definition of insanity - gotta try something different. It's not like Paul will be more reliable with age, and paying him 30 million to be an ok 4th option doesn't make sense.

Totally agree it's just my head is so wrapped up in this playoffs my mind had not gone to next season yet.

 

[Hoop Head]

Year after year he falls apart in the playoffs and we have no credible replacement. We all know the definition of insanity - gotta try something different. It's not like Paul will be more reliable with age, and paying him 30 million to be an ok 4th option doesn't make sense.

Paying him $15 million to sign with another team when that won't create cap space or any way for us to sign a replacement is not the way to improve. We need depth. Relying on Paul without backups is foolish but cutting Paul loose without any clear way to replace him and add depth would be even worse than repeating the same mistake over again.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Paying him $15 million to sign with another team when that won't create cap space or any way for us to sign a replacement is not the way to improve. We need depth. Relying on Paul without backups is foolish but cutting Paul loose without any clear way to replace him and add depth would be even worse than repeating the same mistake over again.

Who said anything about cutting him?

 

[Hoop Head]

Who said anything about cutting him?

You really think we'll find a trade? I dont with how his contract is structured. I'm fairly certain next year will need to be guaranteed in a trade, which basically makes it a non-starter. We don't have any sweeteners to attach. So the idea he's played his last game as a Sun are pretty slim. I doubt he leaves money on the table and retires.

 

[TJ]

Throw my name in the hat that says not to get rid of CP3 unless we have a definitively better option.

 

[Covert Rain]

Throw my name in the hat that says not to get rid of CP3 unless we have a definitively better option.

Yep. Much like I feel about Monty. Unless you have something better waiting? You can't even if I would like to move on.

 

[GatorAZ]

You really think we'll find a trade? I dont with how his contract is structured. I'm fairly certain next year will need to be guaranteed in a trade, which basically makes it a non-starter. We don't have any sweeteners to attach. So the idea he's played his last game as a Sun are pretty slim. I doubt he leaves money on the table and retires.

Everyone is tradeable look how many times it’s happened to Westbrook who had an even worse contract than Paul. I’m guessing he’ll get swapped for more money coming. Maybe some depth players on big deals like Rozier/Hayward. Can he not be traded then cut for $15m?

 

[Hoop Head]

Everyone is tradeable look how many times it’s happened to Westbrook who had an even worse contract than Paul. I’m guessing he’ll get swapped for more money coming. Maybe some depth players on big deals like Rozier/Hayward. Can he not be traded then cut for $15m?

His contract becomes fully guaranteed before he can be dealt. Can't remember the date.

The new CBA prohibits luxury tax teams from adding salary in trades like non-tax teams. Trades are more restrictive as far as salary matching now. So it's not as easy as it was. We'll see what happens.

If you have ESPN+ though I linked an article about the CBA changes in the CBA thread. Check it out. Otherwise I imagine you'll start hearing more closer to the off-season as far as changes go. I hope there's a plan because we're not in a great spot as far as flexibility goes.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

His contract becomes fully guaranteed before he can be dealt. Can't remember the date.

The new CBA prohibits luxury tax teams from adding salary in trades like non-tax teams. Trades are more restrictive as far as salary matching now. So it's not as easy as it was. We'll see what happens.

If you have ESPN+ though I linked an article about the CBA changes in the CBA thread. Check it out. Otherwise I imagine you'll start hearing more closer to the off-season as far as changes go. I hope there's a plan because we're not in a great spot as far as flexibility goes.

Our only real avenue outside of minimum guys will be to move Ayton. Maybe try to package him with CP, as suggested by Eric? Something along this line would appear our best chance of real change.

 

[Hoop Head]

Our only real avenue outside of minimum guys will be to move Ayton. Maybe try to package him with CP, as suggested by Eric? Something along this line would appear our best chance of real change.

I think Ayton is a goner. If he's packaged with anyone I think Shamet will be included. He's basically an expiring since next year is the last with guaranteed money. Adding CP3 means we'd be sending out $65 million or so, which also means taking back close to that which isn't happening. Trades that big are rare.